Moyes So Far!

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Its now become pretty obvious why Moyes' record against the big teams at Everton was so poor. It wasn't due to bad luck, or any of that rubbish, it was because he can't set up a team in a way that will actually cause problems for the best sides. He couldn't do it with Everton, and he can't do it with United.
 
100 said:
I don't get it, why would you play 2 vs 3 in midfield against Liverpool when you know how ineffectual our midfield is?
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Its just him unable to deal with the pressure at United. He insisted on a 442 for half a season even though it wasnt working so he bowed to a 4231 but doesn't know how to deploy it properly and more to the point to change it when things are going bad.

When he does get the sack i think he'll regret how hers not done it his way but tried to fight every instinct in his body to try and manage/play the way United should.
 
Fellaini and Carrick will never manage to keep up with 5 players running around switching positions all over the place, especially when Rooney is being used so far up the pitch and isn't helping out.
 
On paper this team isn't worse than Liverpool. Pretty much this team beat pretty much that team last season. The difference is the managers. It can only be.
 
Mel_F said:
Today all but confirms that you can give him good players, but he doesn't know how to use them. He can spend a fortune on the likes of Kroos, Gundogan etc. but we'd still look clueless.
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If you gave an investor £50 million to make you more money, but he blows it all away, do you go "ah you didn't do too bad, I'll give you another £200 million to try again"? Not in the real world you don't.
 
45 mins to save his job potentially, even his supporters now won't take too kindly to losing and getting outplayed at home to Liverpool. Shite tactics so far.
 
He lacks the ability to formulate an imaginative and attacking brand of football. It's a sad state of affairs when you know we'd be superior with Liverpool's manager at the helm.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Its just him unable to deal with the pressure at United. He insisted on a 442 for half a season even though it wasnt working so he bowed to a 4231 but doesn't know how to deploy it properly and more to the point to change it when things are going bad.

When he does get the sack i think he'll regret how hers not done it his way but tried to fight every instinct in his body to try and manage/play the way United should.
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:lol:

You make it sound like playing 4231 is an incredibly complex setup that requires some kind of tactical mastermind to employ properly. He played that at Everton. It's not a particularly sophisticated setup. It's just that our two best players like to play close to the goal and right up top and our team is used to funnelling it out wide as often as possible. It's a team thing not a manager thing.
 
He's clueless no doubt but this team is finished. It is too old, too slow and no hunger left.
 
Mel_F said:
Today all but confirms that you can give him good players, but he doesn't know how to use them. He can spend a fortune on the likes of Kroos, Gundogan etc. but we'd still look clueless.
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Absolutely.

Our inability to cause them any trouble is 100% down to the system he is playing. It's fecking incredible how badly he's making this team look. After the encouragement of west brom, were back to 442.

Incredible
 
LonelyFire said:
Absolutely.

Our inability to cause them any trouble is 100% down to the system he is playing. It's fecking incredible how badly he's making this team look. After the encouragement of west brom, were back to 442.

Incredible
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442?, really? doesnt look like 442 to me
 
Brwned said:
:lol:

You make it sound like playing 4231 is an incredibly complex setup that requires some kind of tactical mastermind to employ properly. He played that at Everton. It's not a particularly sophisticated setup. It's just that our two best players like to play close to the goal and right up top and our team is used to funnelling it out wide as often as possible. It's a team thing not a manager thing.
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We have 3 players who look like they are playing up top. Our right side has no width and on the left Evra is getting out numbered. Surely packing the midfield would help solve that issue instead of having our midfield 2 get triangles played around them. Add to that no one is taking up a position to play the short ball, its all go out wide or try a crossfield/long ball

But no, you're right, telling players where to play has nothing to do with the manager.
 
I just don't see a way back for us in this game. Other than a moment of individual brilliance we won't score. Moyes does not have one iota of an idea of how to set up a side to play an attacking brand of football. It breaks my heart.
 
Mockney said:
On paper this team isn't worse than Liverpool. Pretty much this team beat pretty much that team last season. The difference is the managers. It can only be.
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On paper this team is far better with the addition of Mata and even Fellaini.

However, our defence is a shadow of its former self and the entire team just panics when we defend. There is no coherent shape or solidity in the team. Just generally players floating around and doing what they please. This is down to the manager.
 
Red Shorts said:
If you gave an investor £50 million to make you more money, but he blows it all away, do you go "ah you didn't do too bad, I'll give you another £200 million to try again"? Not in the real world you don't.
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The noise coming out of the club is that he'll be there this summer and will be handed a lot of money to spend. Maybe the results in the next few weeks will cause him to be sacked, but as it stands, he'll still be the manager next season.
 
Sixpence said:
He's clueless no doubt but this team is finished. It is too we old, too slow and no hunger left.
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The lack of pace is one of our biggest problems. It is the reason why I don't think we can stick with Rooney or RVP long term. Out of the two u top, at least one player needs to have the pace to either get behind the defense or run at defenders.
 
Sphaero said:
The harsh truth is, that you have more quality on the pitch than them. This is the difference between a great working unit and a bunch of top players thrown together.
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This is the issue, in an absolute nutshell. And that is the managers fault.
 
Mel_F said:
The noise coming out of the club is that he'll be there this summer and will be handed a lot of money to spend. Maybe the results in the next few weeks will cause him to be sacked, but as it stands, he'll still be the manager next season.
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I'm not going to keep entertaining the idea of him sacking, as I feel he will be immune to any form of sacking no matter how we end this season now. But AVB got sacked for investing half of what we plan on doing, when Tottenham were in fact above us. We need to get out of this fecking bubble we have ourselves in and see how lost we are right now.
 
Mel_F said:
Today all but confirms that you can give him good players, but he doesn't know how to use them. He can spend a fortune on the likes of Kroos, Gundogan etc. but we'd still look clueless.
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:(
I've been saying that for a few months now, if he buys bad in the summer we are done for. I'm not talking about bad players, I'm talking about players to fit his terrible style.
 
As someone already pointed out it's an achievement to get such an array of attacking talent playing dull, slow, one dimensional football.
 
I honestly don't get some of he things he does. It's not the first time he's played a 4-4-2 but insisted on giving Mata a weird, totally ineffective free role, only this time he's made it worse by complaining several times...to Wayne Rooney?...that there's no one on the right wing when his tactics are the one and only reason there's no one there.

I think it's been well established that we all love Juan Mata but I'd honestly rather see Valencia or Young - you know, an actual real life winger - at the moment, at least they'd be more in-keeping with the system and football we're trying to play.
 
Getsme said:
:(
I've been saying that for a few months now, if he buys bad in the summer we are done for. I'm not talking about bad players, I'm talking about players to fit his terrible style.
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I genuinely don't think it will make a difference who he signs. He just doesn't know what to do.

We are at OT and we are standing off Liverpool like they're Barca.
 
Instead of whining, give credit to Pool. They are excellent at pressing and barely give anyone time on the ball.

This has been our weakness pre-Moyes.
 
This is what we have to look forward to if we stick with him.

Dull, soul-destroying football that will function against the dross of the league.
 
Mata, van Persie and Rooney are three of the best players in the league.

How we can look this clueless with these kind of options on the pitch is beyond me. I just don't get it, even with Moyes at the helm.

I mean, even if he literally told them to just walk out onto the pitch and play with a basic formation of 4-4-2, you'd think their intelligence and drifting would create a couple of opportunities. But it's just nothing. At all.
 
OneUnited24 said:
We have 3 players who look like they are playing up top. Our right side has no width and on the left Evra is getting out numbered. Surely packing the midfield would help solve that issue instead of having our midfield 2 get triangles played around them. Add to that no one is taking up a position to play the short ball, its all go out wide or try a crossfield/long ball

But no, you're right, telling players where to play has nothing to do with the manager.
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What you've said contradicts itself all over the show. Evra is getting outnumbered and we've no width on the right, but no-one is taking up a position to play the short ball, no-one is packing the midfield and it's all about going out wide? That doesn't really add up. Mata has come in to play the short ball consistently, hence why there's no-one out wide. There's been some decent build-up play with him and Rooney dropping into the hole and outnumbering Gerrard, with their other two centre mids pulling out wide and Sterling not really contributing much off the ball. The fact Mata is coming inside and linking up with Rooney is evidence of it being a 4231 rather than this rigid 442 that everyone tries to convince themselves is being played when we're not winning. People criticise playing the 442, but then mention Mata never being in the wide position...something doesn't quite add up there.

I think we've played decently. The issue is there's not a lot of confidence in the squad and Liverpool are playing very well in general. The biggest tactical problem I see is we lack pace up top to stretch their defence and create space. Welbeck up top would give us that but then van Persie's had a couple of chances in the box and did nearly score and he has a good record against Liverpool so I can see why we've left him on.
 
There's pretty much no hope of getting anything from this game now under Moyes. At least under Fergie there was always hope.
 
Another game where we're wondering is this the worst we've been this season?

Even Neville, who had been pretty staunch in his support for Moyes, is being critical. Making the point everyone else sees that you have to change something, it's too easy for Liverpool.
 
Brwned said:
What you've said contradicts itself all over the show. Evra is getting outnumbered and we've no width on the right, but no-one is taking up a position to play the short ball, no-one is packing the midfield and it's all about going out wide? That doesn't really add up. Mata has come in to play the short ball consistently, hence why there's no-one out wide. There's been some decent build-up play with him and Rooney dropping into the hole and outnumbering Gerrard, with their other two centre mids pulling out wide and Sterling not really contributing much off the ball. The fact Mata is coming inside and linking up with Rooney is evidence of it being a 4231 rather than this rigid 442 that everyone tries to convince themselves is being played when we're not winning. People criticise playing the 442, but then mention Mata never being in the wide position...something doesn't quite add up there.

I think we've played decently. The issue is there's not a lot of confidence in the squad and Liverpool are playing very well in general. The biggest tactical problem I see is we lack pace up top to stretch their defence and create space. Welbeck up top would give us that but then van Persie's had a couple of chances in the box and did nearly score and he has a good record against Liverpool so I can see why we've left him on.
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No it doesnt, Januaji is playing so far forward on the left hes got Henderson and Sterling exploiting the space behind him, result? Evra is out numbered. On the right we only have Rafael providing the width so when hes not there we look bare on that side. Rooney isn't dropping deep enough to collect the ball from midfield so the only option they have is to look wide and try and play Rafael or Evra forward to join the play. As for Mata he's been the deeper of the two but when he comes back Felliani decides its his job to bomb forward.

How can you say we've been decent? We've offered nothing in the final third and our movement has been non-existant. Has it finally happened where we now call the team great if they've managed to shade the possession stats?
 
Brwned said:
I think we've played decently. The issue is there's not a lot of confidence in the squad and Liverpool are playing very well in general. The biggest tactical problem I see is we lack pace up top to stretch their defence and create space. Welbeck up top would give us that but then van Persie's had a couple of chances in the box and did nearly score and he has a good record against Liverpool so I can see why we've left him on.
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This is how I've seen the game as well.

Actually Valencia in place of Januzaj perhaps would've worked better.
 
Moyes getting sacked tomorrow would be the best birthday present in my 30 years on this planet
 
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