Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Ironic much?
This will not end well for you, we will then start a group against you because of your bad Management of this group.
Ironic much?
This will not end well for you, we will then start a group against you because of your bad Management of this group.
All I can do is move on and try post the next thread
Seriously though, @Pexbo is right
Hmmmm
Yeah lets gets back to the serious business of talking about David Moyes.
That is Bull.
He is basically saying we have not evolved with times. I beg to differ.
We have evolved our football, we have built up a new training ground, we have all the latest technology for analyses of the team/medical systems etc.
All this guy is saying Fergie too control of everything and now Moyes has to start over again and take control. This is right, Today's comment from Fergie about Moyes taking over a man that has been here this long takes time.
Scouting bit is worrying as Fergie relied on the eye of the scout rather than using statistics of players' performances. Don't worry, Moyes has put in new whiteboards and Ipads.
He's in a better position to judge how we've evolved as he has access to all the premiership clubs. I think it was interesting from a different perspective then you normally get, it neither blames SAF or absolves Moyes.
The behind the scenes changes will take time to take effect before you judge them. Ridiculing the updated scouting/assessment seems a bit odd before it's really been tested.
The behind the scenes changes will take time to take effect before you judge them. Ridiculing the updated scouting/assessment seems a bit odd before it's really been tested.
I think most are ridiculing the club's obvious attempt at clutching straws with regards to praising a massively under performing manager.
That's pretty stupid too, surely if he's making positive changes behind the scenes that should be praised independent of on the pitch performance?
"Sure we're doing shite, but you should see these new iPads."
Samuel is a gonk. Typical of his journalistic 'skill' is the desperate 'Woodward/iPhone=United in chaos' analogy.
Also...
Martin Samuel said:
Replace the words 'owners and chief executives' & 'players' with 'British football journalists' and his is a good point.
Yeah agreed...But when the changes consist of iPads and whiteboards with player details, it's kind of hard to jump on board and hoorah him for it. it's not something that's going to change the landscape of how things work at the club
Are you talking about the ipads?
Not sure if this has been posted in any of the other 2 dozen Moyes thread but this is some sad, worrying & scary reading - an open letter from an Everton fan a few years back...it's almost exactly what we're going through with Davey boy...
http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/an-open-letter-to-david-moyes/
http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/an-open-letter-to-david-moyes/
Olybiakos just lost 0-3 at home to an incredibly crap team which happens to be their most hated rival just like Liverpool is to us. Moyes should watch that match and learn a few things.
Wow!And that wasn't 8 months, but 10 years after he took over their team.
EDIT: look at these bits:
And people think another 2 years will solve everything...
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Thing is, we're at home, and we're 2-0 down already so basically we have to attack.
They will (I imagine) sit deep and invite us onto them and try to get us on the counter while protecting their lead.
Don't get why the club think he needs time. Or that people say he needs another window or two. New managers are able to get even lesser sets of players playing in their vision but Moyes has shown no signs of a vision on the field. He has not shown getting a single player playing better or even to their level except (maybe) Rooney, who has been better than last season but still no where near his best. Not a single other player. If he can't rouse players that are already accustomed to playing for this great club how can we trust he will be able to with new players that have an even larger weight on their shoulders to over come the unmitigated disaster of this season.
Think about it; we buy 3 or 4 players and they at expected t not only fit in right away but elevate us to genuine title contenders next season. Really we expect Moyes can do that after 16 plus times of conceding first with this set of players used to fighting back but under Moyes having no belief that they can ?
We need a manager who the players can believe in and have a system they can work towards. Moyes is providing neither in over 8 months. How can we actually think he will be able to with more time if there have been no signs yet.
Think about it; we buy 3 or 4 players and they at expected t not only fit in right away but elevate us to genuine title contenders next season. Really we expect Moyes can do that after 16 plus times of conceding first with this set of players used to fighting back but under Moyes having no belief that they can ?
We need a manager who the players can believe in and have a system they can work towards. Moyes is providing neither in over 8 months. How can we actually think he will be able to with more time if there have been no signs yet.
He's another bit of perspective for people that suggest that DM should be given time and allowed to throw money at our problems. David Moyes' record signings at Everton :
2005 : James Beatie, striker - 14 goals in 86 appearances for Everton
2006 : Andy Johnson, striker - 22 goals in 79 appearances for Everton
2007 : Yakubu, striker - 33 goals in 109 appearances for Everton
2008 : Fellaini
Makes for grim reading. We shouldn't trust this man with the "warchest". He's comically out of his depth.
2005 : James Beatie, striker - 14 goals in 86 appearances for Everton
2006 : Andy Johnson, striker - 22 goals in 79 appearances for Everton
2007 : Yakubu, striker - 33 goals in 109 appearances for Everton
2008 : Fellaini
Makes for grim reading. We shouldn't trust this man with the "warchest". He's comically out of his depth.
Really? So now Sir Alex ran United like a Sunday league team but now we're hooked up to the ICloud it'll all be ok?
Is there any failing of Moyes' that won't be blamed on Ferguson? The media are so keen to protect Moyes they are willing to claim we are 20 years behind on the footballing side of the club? Really? How comes our out of date ways were not exposed before now then? How comes experienced foreign coaches like Quieroz came into the set up and didn't complain that it was all so Sunday league?
These desperate attempts to save face for Moyes are becoming ridiculous.You've described it in a really crude way, but it's not a bad reflection of what's been happening when we are chasing a game. I'm convinced its because he got criticised for making negative substitutions early on here so now tries overly hard to be seen as attacking. Sometimes were crying out for more stability in the middle to get a grip of the game so we can create something, i.e. adding a third CM but instead we take one of our two off and throw on another striker.
in which case you might want to keep your pitchfork nicely sharpened ready for next weekend.
I fully expect him to fail again next weekend. Maybe we can just give the whole football thing up and just spend our time signing players?
I posted that before, but it does fit like a glove. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/moyes-so-far.373984/page-597#post-15187796
And that wasn't 8 months, but 10 years after he took over their team.
EDIT: look at these bits:
And people think another 2 years will solve everything...
The same fans who gave him a standing ovation in his final game?
Sorry, but if that is the case, it hasn't worked, he has done exactly what you say he is trying to prevent.
That might have been a mixture of respect and relief.
The Martin Samuel article does strike a chord with me. Not in the Sunday league analogy, though I do see what he's getting at, but in the apparent contrast between the robustness of the business and the apparent sentimentality of the appointment. However, my own feeling is that whatever SAF's motives were in recommending Moyes, the board's reasons for accepting the strategy were every bit as businesslike.
My guess is that United hired Moyes because statistically he was a manager capable of keeping a club with a mid-table wage bill closer to the top of the league than the bottom. The hope was that (like his predecessor) if he was given time he would be able to take a top 4 wages club and keep them as title contenders. Meanwhile, they were willing to sit back, knowing that sponsors etc don't just fade away overnight and that indeed a relative lack of trophies doesn't stop commercial growth (you can see that in Real Madrid's accounts)
Just as I watch us play and see a percentages manager, I see a similar calculation in his appointment. I know it's cliched, but he looks like a Moneyball choice of manager and I bet the Glazers were chuffed to bits when SAF mentioned his name. Similarly I wonder about that other kind of calculation, the one known as "cutting your losses," before you "throw good money after bad" -
I know I'd be making that calculation in May, and right now I can't imagine Moyes coming out as a worthwhile gamble.
My guess is that United hired Moyes because statistically he was a manager capable of keeping a club with a mid-table wage bill closer to the top of the league than the bottom. The hope was that (like his predecessor) if he was given time he would be able to take a top 4 wages club and keep them as title contenders. Meanwhile, they were willing to sit back, knowing that sponsors etc don't just fade away overnight and that indeed a relative lack of trophies doesn't stop commercial growth (you can see that in Real Madrid's accounts)
Just as I watch us play and see a percentages manager, I see a similar calculation in his appointment. I know it's cliched, but he looks like a Moneyball choice of manager and I bet the Glazers were chuffed to bits when SAF mentioned his name. Similarly I wonder about that other kind of calculation, the one known as "cutting your losses," before you "throw good money after bad" -
I know I'd be making that calculation in May, and right now I can't imagine Moyes coming out as a worthwhile gamble.
Everton fans I know were genuinely gutted to see him leave.
What's your point? Fan's are fickle.
Really? So now Sir Alex ran United like a Sunday league team but now we're hooked up to the ICloud it'll all be ok?
Is there any failing of Moyes' that won't be blamed on Ferguson? The media are so keen to protect Moyes they are willing to claim we are 20 years behind on the footballing side of the club? Really? How comes our out of date ways were not exposed before now then? How comes experienced foreign coaches like Quieroz came into the set up and didn't complain that it was all so Sunday league?
I think it was an interesting perspective, and I don't think it particularly is designed to support moyes either. People seem to read into things whatever suits their opinion I guess which is a shame as it doesn't lead to any useful debate. SAF was quite old school in some of the way he did things and his total control. I think that was what the article was mainly saying, and he was very successful in that.
Revisionism to belittle his previous achievements is rife on here atm.
Quite
We may well be a little behind the times when it comes to the way the football side of the things is handled. Heck, I think most of us accept that our style of football needed updating. But it still doesn't excuse what we're seeing this season. Making us high-tech is not going to be the difference between what we're seeing to what we should be seeing. Samuels is taking a few steps too far by claiming "United were a poor side by the end. Who knew? Nobody, because Ferguson never let it show". Poor? Seriously?
After reading the last 5 pages I'm convinced we've been infiltrated by Moyes PR team. **Cough** Yanuzay **cough**
Martin Samuel forgot to mention the real reason we are struggling is because Moyes is shit. He can have the best mainframe available to help with his scouting but ultimately he needs to get the players to perform. He has failed miserably so far.
The reason Moyes replaced Fergie is the same reason we've signed Obertan, Owen, Young, Valencia, Bebe, Fellaini, Smalling, Buttner. When it comes to the footballing side of things the club hierarchy are only prepared to do the bare minimum and hope for the best. The last 2 genuinely class players we've signed since Ronaldo left are :
1.RVP was signed because he was relatively cheap for a player of his quality due to his contract situation.
2.Mata was desperate to leave Chelsea and the club needed a marquee signing to try and rescue the season and create a feel good factor.
It baffles me that Fergie who signed Keane when we had Ince, Veron when he had Scholes spent the last 4 years saying he was happy with average and ageing players in midfield.
Martin Samuel forgot to mention the real reason we are struggling is because Moyes is shit. He can have the best mainframe available to help with his scouting but ultimately he needs to get the players to perform. He has failed miserably so far.
The reason Moyes replaced Fergie is the same reason we've signed Obertan, Owen, Young, Valencia, Bebe, Fellaini, Smalling, Buttner. When it comes to the footballing side of things the club hierarchy are only prepared to do the bare minimum and hope for the best. The last 2 genuinely class players we've signed since Ronaldo left are :
1.RVP was signed because he was relatively cheap for a player of his quality due to his contract situation.
2.Mata was desperate to leave Chelsea and the club needed a marquee signing to try and rescue the season and create a feel good factor.
It baffles me that Fergie who signed Keane when we had Ince, Veron when he had Scholes spent the last 4 years saying he was happy with average and ageing players in midfield.
Actually is not high-tech at all. iPads are for noobs. If they would have said Linux cluster machines I would have been more exciting but iPhons and iPads, mech. As a lifelong Apple hater, I now have another reason to moan about Moyes.
I bet they aren't now.
You're probably giving them too much credit there. I'm not sure his name told them much at all. That's part of the problem, for me.
And even then, according to Fergie's last, we negotiated all the way to the last million or so.
That is for an another debate to be fair (and yes, I agree with you, I guess that the absolute majority of them wouldn't swap him with Martniez now). I haven't frequented Everton forums and neither know many Everton fans. SilentWitness didn't like Moyes that much (as documented in Everton thread that was a couple of years ago) and in some way he was saying that Moyes is underachieving with them. He also said that does he want Moyes out or not is a difficult answer because there are no guarantees that they will get a good manager. Hopefully for them, they chose a very good replacements whom I think has potential to dwarf Moyes' achievement there.
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