Moyes So Far!

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Sultan said:
Yes!

RvP has also been below his usual standards. I can't understand how wingers delivering bad crosses and them missing chances is somehow Moyes' fault.

I can understand the variety argument.
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The quality of the crosses isn't Moyes fault (well assuming they do practice in training). As you said the variety is but also the failure to adapt our tactics to acknowledge our weaknesses.

He's already said plenty of times that we need to strengthen the middle but bar the odd game he sets up as if the midfield is fine, matching two central players against at least 3 usually more when you factor most teams are narrower than us. As a result we usually get overrun and struggle to create centrally.

Then he's set the team up around crossing when our wingers have been our worst performing players these last two seasons and the supply from fullback is patchy to say the least. There's been other issues as well but I'd say those two are the most significant.

I hope looking at our defensive game today he agree's that we look better when Clev is told to stay centrally and Rooney plays more as an attacking mid than striker. Offensively I think that will help as well.
 
Ash_G said:
How far forward did Arteta get? He was deep for me like Carrick. Wilshere pushed on more than you would say Clev did but they're the home team. Rooney was in the key creative role for us, it should be him picking up the ball in the centre and then playing in mata/valencia/RVP or starting the moves and I think he got the ball plenty from Carrick/Clev.

The midfield need to do better creatively no doubt but we need to get more from Rooney in that role. Most times he plays too high up with RVP where they both make the same runs- the service to them isn't great but they certainly haven't clicked yet. Sometimes like today he plays deeper but he seems to struggle with the balance in how deep to play and also with the more creative aspect of the role. He's got lots of assists but I wouldn't say he's a creative hub there.

The game wasn't great but there were some positives to take from it, defensively we looked a lot more secure with Rooney giving some extra strength there. Offensively we weren't great but I still thought we looked better with Rooney play deeper than RVP. That's something I hope Moyes ackowledges. Getting them both playing better should help them click better. Next step is trying to get the wide players involved in different ways. There's no reason with rooney deeper than he can't help bring Mata in to more central areas and ideally with mata showing he'll do his defending we can include Januzaj more going forward at the same time as the other 3.
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Rooney was poor and has been recently. Perhaps part of the problem is he knows he won't be dropped and his substandard performances will be tolerated. If we are asking more of the players behind RVP, like Mata and Rooney, we can't stick them in the team with an inflexible player like Valencia or Young. Young can hypothetically play on either wing, but he's too predictable and not good enough.

We can't persist with a midfield that offers zero support going forward. Cleverley and Carrick are capable, but they didn't do it. It makes us predictable and easy to defend.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Without a doubt. But I think the point the club is trying to make is that we're not any other club in Europe. For better or worse.
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Well I doubt Bayern would be better off if they had kept Klinsmann or Barcelona if they had stuck to Rijkaard when he no longer coped with the job. You need to move on quickly if you find yourself in bad hands or it'll take a good while before someone sorts this mess out.

You can keep an underperforming manager if you are certain that he is capable of making things right. I don't see what in Moyes' career or his spell at United would give anyone such confidence.

I will be disappointed if he stays beyond the Summer if he doesn't improve significantly. He probably will though. He's not the man to take us forward and the sooner we realise it and make it right the better.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
If RVP had his shooting boots on, we would have won it.

Not Moyes' fault - he did everything fine on his end.
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Just shows how the standards have been lowered. We create about two chances the whole game (and just one following the first minute), and people say the problem is we missed them rather than not creating a few more...
 
Sarni said:
Well I doubt Bayern would be better off if they had kept Klinsmann or Barcelona if they had stuck to Rijkaard when he no longer coped with the job. You need to move on quickly if you find yourself in bad hands or it'll take a good while before someone sorts this mess out.

You can keep an underperforming manager if you are certain that he is capable of making things right. I don't see what in Moyes' career or his spell at United would give anyone such confidence.
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I'd agree with you. Clearly the club, or Ferguson, sees something in Moyes that I don't. I don't think Moyes is the right man for the job but he'll still survive until next season. That much is obvious now. All we can hope for is some sort of progress.
 
Garethw said:
It's frigging depressing. I cannot believe that Moyes' job is not on the line.
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I don't think any of us expected a title challenge in his first year but we would expect to be challenging for the CL places and finish in the top 4. 4th was my minimum expectation this season and maybe a cup.

The fact that we are 7th, out of both cups and basically have our season over at the start of February barring a CL miracle, he should be fired tomorrow and nobody could have no complaints. We've not been in the top 4 since the very first weekend of the season and that is telling.
 
United have amassed 65 more points than Liverpool over the last two seasons.
United have amassed 37 more points than Spurs over the last two seasons.

United are currently 11 points behind Liverpool
8 points behind Spurs.


David Moyes.

People have said he'd have been sacked if he was at any other club.

If he was a manager at a McDonalds branch, he'd have been sacked.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I'd agree with you. Clearly the club, or Ferguson, sees something in Moyes that I don't. I don't think Moyes is the right man for the job but he'll still survive until next season. That much is obvious now. All we can hope for is some sort of progress.
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He will stay which will be baffling because he hasn't in any way indicated that he could make it work. It will be another season of the same crap and then another and another until his contract expires and we decide it's perhaps the right time to see some change.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
What change of heart is this? Contrary to popular belief I've been fair with Moyes. I've praised him when he's done well, which has been too few and far between, and criticized him when he's done shite, which is more often than not. I've absolutely always maintained I'd be happy to persist with Moyes if we saw some progress. There is something to build on tonight and I hope I see it in the Palace game. I'm not holding my breath though. Most of the anti-Moyes men aren't in anyway happy with tonight.
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Why is it popular belief then ?
 
Amir said:
Just shows how the standards have been lowered. We create about two chances the whole game (and just one following the first minute), and people say the problem is we missed them rather than not creating a few more...
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Moyes best trick to date has been lowering fans expectations so much that two shots on target against Arsenal is now seen as a positive. :lol:
 
Sir Matt said:
Rooney was poor and has been recently. Perhaps part of the problem is he knows he won't be dropped and his substandard performances will be tolerated. If we are asking more of the players behind RVP, like Mata and Rooney, we can't stick them in the team with an inflexible player like Valencia or Young. Young can hypothetically play on either wing, but he's too predictable and not good enough.

We can't persist with a midfield that offers zero support going forward. Cleverley and Carrick are capable, but they didn't do it. It makes us predictable and easy to defend.
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I don't think it's an attitude problem with Rooney I just think its a case that he's a good second striker in that he has great anticipation and finishing but he's not a top class creator in that role. He can't carry the ball as well as others and his passing range isn't the same. His strength is in his long passes and with our wingers as poor as they are (and the good ones we have there mata/januzaj) wanting to come inside then its not ideal.

With the midfield I agree but they need someone to bring them in. Wilshere benefited undoubtedly from Rosicky playing just ahead an being there to play a pass off or open up space, not to mention ozil/carzola who both also come short. With us in recent times you've got RVP/Rooney on top of each other when we have the ball and at least one winger hugging the line. That doesn't make it easy for the midfielders to get forward. As I said we'd be best suited to having a third player as Rooney was today, he just needs to do it a lot better.

Sadly though I'm still not sure how ideal that would be because imo Rooney plays that role very much thinking as a striker. He wants to get it, spread it wide and run in the box and Mata wants to come inside and either work an opening or find someone making a run in behind, and if RVP is marked that falls to Valencia/Young who rarely do such runs and they're not getting the cross in quick enough or good enough to fit in with how Rooney wants to play.
 
Amir said:
Just shows how the standards have been lowered. We create about two chances the whole game (and just one following the first minute), and people say the problem is we missed them rather than not creating a few more...
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Exactly this. RVP is feeding on scraps and that creates even more pressure on him to put the chances away. Combine this with the fact that we've leaked quite a few late goals and it makes things even worse.

I don't mind losing or drawing if we play well and look threatening. If we created 10 decent chances and RVP/Rooney missed a couple of sitters each then comments about creating/missing chances are valid. When we create 2 or 3 good chances and we don't put them away, my first thought is that we've not created enough.
 
Mickeza said:
He has won at Manchester City since they've become part of the big four though hasn't he?
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Yeah won there 2-1 in 2010-11 season I think. But most of his time at Everton was spent playing against the traditional top 4 as it was for many years. It's very hard to win at a top club but to not have won a single ONE of those 49 matches over a 12 year period is absolutely diabolical.
 
TBF today was decent from Moyes and the team. Nothing to hang your hat on though. Still not convinced by him.
 
Nothing that he couldn't have achieved with his Everton squad. Pretty sure his last game with Everton at the Emirates ended 0-0.
 
lem8sh said:
The reigning champions have nothing to play for domestically in early February. Just let that sink in. He has been an unmitigated disaster.
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And yet some still think he needs time. How much time and how much money, what will be the excuse next year?
He's shown nothing, absolutely nothing to convince me that he should be given more time.
 
Arsenal was the better team and we created almost nothing apart from RVP header. We have nothing positive to take from this game regarding our offense. Our defense was better but far from perfect. This game just established what we already know, it's better to not lose then to win. Great result for our manager.
 
Alock1 said:
Nothing that he couldn't have achieved with his Everton squad. Pretty sure his last game with Everton at the Emirates ended 0-0.
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It did and it looked exactly like this one. Barkley had the only good chance of the game with a long range shot.
 
As I said from the moment he first opened his mouth, he hasn't got the bottle. Arsenal are always there for the taking, today no different, yet we still looked scared to commit too much.

He should read Fergie's book and start gambling. Chelsea at home, Arsenal here were winnable. Still, not the worst result tonight so fingers crossed we can build on it.
 
Getsme said:
And yet some still think he needs time. How much time and how much money, what will be the excuse next year?
He's shown nothing, absolutely nothing to convince me that he should be given more time.
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As I said earlier there is not one club of our stature where he would still be in a job, it beggars belief as to how he isn't at least hanging on by his fingertips.
 
Mentioning luck again. Hopefully more as an ironic cliche than a serious excuse.

EDIT: In fairness, he says we have to make our own.
 
lem8sh said:
As I said earlier there is not one club of our stature where he would still be in a job, it beggars belief as to how he isn't at least hanging on by his fingertips.
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Haven't we always taken pride from that though? Claiming that United are different - not spending millions, trusting youth, being loyal, not panicking etc.
 
Leroy The Red said:
So he's delusional too.

McDonalds Manager.
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He didn't really say much wrong there to be honest... and that's coming from me, one of the main "moyes out" people. He's not confidence inspiring, that's for sure but he didn't say anything stupid like you need a football intelligence to understand the tactics :p
 
lem8sh said:
As I said earlier there is not one club of our stature where he would still be in a job, it beggars belief as to how he isn't at least hanging on by his fingertips.
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He's the safest manager in the league, his interviews tell us that. No pressure on him at all. Can't believe it. Our club is on the way to doing a Liverpool of the early 90's and we are letting it happen.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Well you seem to be under the impression I feel Moyes can do nothing right. I had to defend him earlier in this thread. I've judged him on his football and his results, and I'll continue to do so.
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Yea that's reasonable, we're all under immense pressure as fans and we need to keep a perspective under the current climate, obviously your name change was made regarding your immense ability to remain focused on the managers current difficulties and your continued support, Agreed ?
You can hate me if you want for challenging your opinion when it's been clear your heads been stuck in the ground or in actual fact following the herd but I have just been trying to look at it from a different angle, rightly or wrongly.

Moyes remains a worry.
 
I'm still not sure much, if anything, can be taken from interviews and press conferences. Moyes can only do his talking on the pitch, as far as I'm concerned really.
 
gasmanc said:
Yea that's reasonable, we're all under immense pressure as fans and we need to keep a perspective under the current climate, obviously your name change was made regarding your immense ability to remain focused on the managers current difficulties and your continued support, Agreed ?
You can hate me if you want for challenging your opinion when it's been clear your heads been stuck in the ground or in actual fact following the herd but I have just been trying to look at it from a different angle, rightly or wrongly.

Moyes remains a worry.
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My name was changed for a laugh. And that's what it is, a laugh.
 
thegregster said:
Last season Everton were only 2 points off a top 4th spot in April. Quite sad that with a better squad he has us out of the race by February.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22075444
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Yep.

I think the whole rotation thing has been a huge problem for him.

Everton were always solid, hard to beat, well organized - they weren't full of errors, mistakes, and miscommunication. Our game has to massively change both in attack and defence depending on who plays.

Although we have a large squad, everybody offers different things and he hasn't found a way of channeling that and playing to peoples strengths or making sure that players know how to play depending on the team.

This is especially evident off the ball - some of our players are willing and capable of pressing high, but when others aren't/can't then it becomes pointless. When Vidic/Ferdinand play then we have to play a deeper line, when Kagawa or Mata plays Evra doesn't seem to know whether to go out to an opposing players or not etc.etc.
 
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