We looked as good defensively as we have all season. That was a definite improvement on the past two games. It's something to build on. Obvious work is needed on our attacking phase of play, but there's definitely something to build on. Would you not agree?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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We're just lacking that bite and quickness of thought in the middle. Our midfielders just aren't up there with the very best when pressed. Carrick is defensive minded and Cleverley has actually regressed to a point he's playing too safe. I've hardly known United spend so much energy without achieving much going forward. A knock in confidence has also taken it's toll.
I would say the blame for this should be shared between the players, coaches, luck, lack of activity in the transfer market over the years.
I would say the blame for this should be shared between the players, coaches, luck, lack of activity in the transfer market over the years.
We created one chance. Arteta's feck up is hardly a chance created. Rvp should have put it away though. Sitter for him really.
I don't think there's a difference, no. It's a football match against another team and a lot of people has been shitting themselves for weeks that Arsenal would tear us apart. United held them to just a couple of chances today, while creating a few very good chances on our own. Away at a top side, I'd say that's pretty decent - particularly with our recent form in mind.
I agree, the old United that went for it in the last 15-20 minutes has been replaced with a team that is more afraid of losing than trying to win.
In fairness to Moyes he urged the team on tonight but I fear the mentality may have set in. We settled for a draw tonight when nothing more than a win would do.
Not really. Its not very hard to play a backs against the walls defensive display. After all, all the poor teams in the league are able to do it Fulham did it to us on the weekend. The only difference is we have better players so I'd expect us to not concede or atleast put up a resolute defensive display considering we werent particularly interested in attacking.
A midtable performance doesnt seem like an improvement at all to me. As a isolated result it is ok. But looking at everything this is as depressing as the Fulham game.
City away the year they won the league comes pretty damn close. Wasn't desperate for a win in that game, but the tactics were so negative it was unbelievable (and might have cost us the league that year, but that's a different discussion!).
You'd think that after years of watching Scholes already moving & thinking ahead before the ball reaches him, or turning instantly forward once it lands at his feet, our midfielders might just consider being similarly proactive. But, no....And therein lies the problem with our creativity.
Is that you David?
Good post. Would read again.
We needed a draw there. It was something Ferguson did quite often on such occasions in his last years but he never set us up specifically for a draw when we needed a win. He went for a draw when it was all we needed.
That said I don't think Moyes wanted a draw today. He just didn't have any plan to break Arsenal so settled for it.
Your a mod account then
all this change of name, change of heart is fooling none, your still due some humble pie tonight, Moyes got it right against a side that attacked, great result away. I am sure you will agree.So how is that any worse? Everyone after that game lambasted Fergie and the team for playing for the draw. It was not all was needed, because we dropped the vital points we needed to stay in the title race. We bottled it that day, we didn't bottle this match.
Moyes went for the draw and managed to get it. I suppose that is a success.
But look at how deep the two midfielders sit. They're never involved going forward--even when we had Fulham camped in their own area they had to essentially be invited to get near the box.
Tonight, they were almost never in the final third going forward. Cleverly's only forward passes into the final third were long balls (all failed). Carrick had two completed forward passes in the final third. The forwards are completely isolated and the only means of attack is crossing.
I am beyond annoyed at his negativity and his stubbornness to admit we are shite....what's worse than playing shite? Telling the world that we're 'doing well' grrr
Your a mod account then
Today the whole team was focused on defending just like a mid table team typical of last years Everton, again no idea how to attack, nothing has changed, we knew Moyes can to that from his Everton years, he also did it against City and Chelsea.When he comes up against a team that defends he'll be back to 70's and crossing.
We needed a win tonight, no other result was good enough. We settled for a draw when it's as good as a defeat given our current situation.
A draw was all we needed at CoMS back then because it would have left us top of the league by 3 points with 2 games to go.
A draw today has canceled any small chance of finishing top 4 we might have had.
Look, I'm not lauding Moyes as some sort of tactical mastermind based on today's performance, I just don't see it being as poor as some people are suggesting (hence my comment about people being biased because they don't like Moyes). It wasn't great to look at by any stretch of the imagination, but it's also worth remembering that Arsenal has been in great form this season - which people seems to have forgotten because Liverpool smashed them.
If RVP had his shooting boots on, we would have won it.
Not Moyes' fault - he did everything fine on his end.
Not Moyes' fault - he did everything fine on his end.
What change of heart is this? Contrary to popular belief I've been fair with Moyes. I've praised him when he's done well, which has been too few and far between, and criticised him when he's done shite, which is more often than not. I've absolutely always maintained I'd be happy to persist with Moyes if we saw some progress. There is something to build on tonight and I hope I see it in the Palace game. I'm not holding my breath though. Most of the anti-Moyes men aren't in anyway happy with tonight.Your a mod account then
How far forward did Arteta get? He was deep for me like Carrick. Wilshere pushed on more than you would say Clev did but they're the home team. Rooney was in the key creative role for us, it should be him picking up the ball in the centre and then playing in mata/valencia/RVP or starting the moves and I think he got the ball plenty from Carrick/Clev.
The midfield need to do better creatively no doubt but we need to get more from Rooney in that role. Most times he plays too high up with RVP where they both make the same runs- the service to them isn't great but they certainly haven't clicked yet. Sometimes like today he plays deeper but he seems to struggle with the balance in how deep to play and also with the more creative aspect of the role. He's got lots of assists but I wouldn't say he's a creative hub there.
The game wasn't great but there were some positives to take from it, defensively we looked a lot more secure with Rooney giving some extra strength there. Offensively we weren't great but I still thought we looked better with Rooney play deeper than RVP. That's something I hope Moyes ackowledges. Getting them both playing better should help them click better. Next step is trying to get the wide players involved in different ways. There's no reason with rooney deeper than he can't help bring Mata in to more central areas and ideally with mata showing he'll do his defending we can include Januzaj more going forward at the same time as the other 3.
I didn't say you were.
It's a bit unmanchesterutdlike to play for a draw when you're significantly behind the teams you're chasing. I'd understand keeping it tight for an hour or so, but there was no urgency in the last 20 minutes. We had 1 shot on target in the second half and that's not good enough.
I couldn't believe the amount of times we aimlessly lumped the ball back to Arsenal either. We brought januzaj on and proceeded to either ignore him or lump balls at his head.
You may think it was a good result, maybe it was? I just don't think i've seen such a run of limp attacking displays from ute before. Van Persie is probably snatching at his chances because he knows it might be an hour before he gets another touch of the ball in a dangerous area!
Any team can put on a performance like that. Bottom sides in the league do it every week. Theres no tatical nous in it really.
Rooney is doing his usual run of average displays after an injury lay-off. I was initially fooled as he played well in his first game back, but he's looked average since.
It's worth considering players not performing to their usual high standards might be a cause for our inconsistencies this season. It has happened to most great players in their careers.
Exactly agree with this, it was a typical Everton display, play for 0-0. He is going to turn us into a team that defends and plays for 0-0 against top teams and cross the ball against lower teams having no other idea how to attack.
Yes!
RvP has also been below his usual standards. I can't understand how wingers delivering bad crosses and them missing chances is somehow Moyes' fault.
I can understand the variety argument.
He is still being punished for not sorting the midfield in the summer, the lack of drive and energy from our midfield is baffling. When we break just have a look and see how far away our midfielders will be from the action, we get zero production from deep runners centrally and have done basically since Scholes retired the first time round.
I rate Carrick and alongside someone a bit more dynamic he is fine but he is about as mobile as a wardrobe, Cleverley has a bit more movement and energy but a lot of its running to stand still with him. Who knows what Fellaini is because we haven't seen enough of him, Jones isn't a roaming midfielder and Giggs just isn't a midfielder at all. It feels like Moyes was too kind to those already in place at the club, wanted to get a proper look at the players first hand and before he knew it we were halfway across the world in pre-season with nobody willing to part with their players.
I rate Carrick and alongside someone a bit more dynamic he is fine but he is about as mobile as a wardrobe, Cleverley has a bit more movement and energy but a lot of its running to stand still with him. Who knows what Fellaini is because we haven't seen enough of him, Jones isn't a roaming midfielder and Giggs just isn't a midfielder at all. It feels like Moyes was too kind to those already in place at the club, wanted to get a proper look at the players first hand and before he knew it we were halfway across the world in pre-season with nobody willing to part with their players.
It's not really as simple as that, though. This United isn't the same team we've been watching for the past 20 years or so. Our form is woeful and a lot of things just aren't clicking, so a draw away at Arsenal isn't a bad result IMO - it's certainly better than getting destroyed, as a lot of people feared would happen. I'm not overjoyed by the result at all, don't get me wrong, but I can accept it (unlike like three quarters of our other results this season).
I agree on most of the rest though, although we don't really know how much of that is down to tactics. It seemed like Moyes did try to ignite our attacking play by putting on Januzaj and Young, but we never really made any use of either, as you say. The hoofing is annoying me greatly as well.
Any other club of our stature in Europe and he would be unemployed.
It's just hitting home that we will not be in the CL next season. Can't believe it.
That's exactly how I see it, how some can say it's a good result or performance is beyond me. The team had a chance tonight to show us what their made off, they failed miserably.
I'm not blaming Moyes entirely for this but the blame has to fall somewhere, and as he is the manager it's going to land at his feet, and rightly so.
What happened to us trying to win every game, or going hell for leather in the last 15-20 minutes? Two shots on target the entire match, a match we desperately needed to win. The team stinks of defeatism, no desire, no hunger, no belief.
Without a doubt. But I think the point the club is trying to make is that we're not any other club in Europe. For better or worse.
As I said in another post, I think RVP is snatching at chances because he's feeding on scraps. His chance when he did a cross/shot to nowhere was indicative of that.
Worse. The reigning champions have nothing to play for domestically in early Feb, beggars belief.
It's not the United we have known for decades. I think the negative mindset has come about because we have lost a number of points late on in the game. The attitude players showing are a sure sign of confidence issues. Positivity has vanished.
No different to the win against Arsenal in the previous round. You look for positive points and especially for some progress, but really it's nothing more than a single game, that wasn't even very good.
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