What I really don't get about the crossing strategy is does he actually think these floated crosses in are really a great tactic when your strikers are Rooney and RVP. Neither are exactly known for winning contested headers in the air. We would have likely been better playing Vidic up front against Fulham, at least you would back him to win anything in the air that comes near him.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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It's amazing how he has got us to play like old school vampire killers. Strictly trying to overwhelm the opposition with crosses...
why can he develop tri-mobile (3 players on the move) passing movement for e.g.? cross when the opponent is least expecting it.
At least if he wants us to cross all the time he should get the crosses varried to included cut backs and ground crosses. Not this aerial bombardment like military artilery shelling a an enmey position.
I didn't see the conversation you (Pogue) had so don't know the context but even Valencia drifts in sometimes whilst largely playing wide.
He's so obsessed with the tactic that he's not actually considering playing to the strengths of our players. Our wingers form would tell you not to centre your whole approach on wide play or crosses and the fact that we don't have a big man striker should tell him defenders are going to handle the crosses fairly easily. Despite all the evidence we persist.
Just looked at the stats.
Manchester United are the last in the table of attacking sides (the middle) in the Premier League: 24% of of our attacks are down the middle. Wow.
Manchester United are the last in the table of attacking sides (the middle) in the Premier League: 24% of of our attacks are down the middle. Wow.
Our game is totally centered around our weaknesses. Bizzare yet absolutely true. We have poor wingers and strikers that are at their best when the ball is on the ground. So our play revolves around these wingers putting crosses in for RVP and Rooney to score from. I said it during the game yesterday, a Crouch instead of RVP would have been a much much better bet yesterday and when that's true, you have to question why its the case at a club like Man Utd.
Squad needs a BIG REBUILD we all know this. However do we trust Moyes to spend the money wisely (if available).
I am not even sure he would get rid of the players who clearly need to go, simply because he keeps playing them.
We should have hung on to Zaha, just made no sense to loan him out. Especially when Valencia and Young keep playing.
Some baffling team and general decisions which simply reek of someone or indeed a few people not having a clue.
He won't go this season in my opinion, but he never was and never will be the man for the job, he clearly does not motivate the team, this added to the above means a season of nothing. Then difficulty in attracting the top players with the lack of European football.
I am not even sure he would get rid of the players who clearly need to go, simply because he keeps playing them.
We should have hung on to Zaha, just made no sense to loan him out. Especially when Valencia and Young keep playing.
Some baffling team and general decisions which simply reek of someone or indeed a few people not having a clue.
He won't go this season in my opinion, but he never was and never will be the man for the job, he clearly does not motivate the team, this added to the above means a season of nothing. Then difficulty in attracting the top players with the lack of European football.
My heart actually begins to sink now whenever the ball is passed wide. There's something Moyes doesn't/cannot get. We'll play the exact same way vs Arsenal. I've absolutely no doubt about that. And for the rest of the season.
Same here. Every single time the ball is with carrick or fletch or rooney and I think common lets play it forward through the middle. Inevitably it finds its way wide and I find myself cursing.
It's horrible especially when you think we have the technical players for play through the middle.
Why would the money not be available? And no, I don't trust him.
As for this 'big rebuild', there's nothing that we need now that even a casual observer with the club couldn't have told you last year. My old Nan who only watches football when she walks by the shop window display of Currys could have had a fair crack at diagnosing what ails us over the past year. However the man paid millions a year, appointed in May, offered it in March/April, apparently took absolutely no interest whatsoever in the job he was about to do and it took him the cycle of two full transfer windows covering a period of 11 months to realise:
Vidic's injuries means he's a spent force
Ferdinand is old
Evra ia getting older and quickly decliing
None of our wingers are terribly good
We need two or three CMs
I don't get why NOW that's being realised. Has he not been paying attention? I'm still half expecting him to say in the post-match interviews: "Oh, we were in red? Right, okay. I'm still learning you see."
Okay he made a last minute attempt to buy a LB on loan after pissing about with his old club on Baines but then has proceeded to play an ageing, dwindling Evra in pretty much every game for 90 minutes, despite being public about the fact he has a problem with his knees. Then he sells Fabio. Why? We go from desperately putting in a last minute bid for someone, having identified the LB area as somewhere that needed urgent improvement and then we go from that to thinking we're so flush in that position we barely need any cover!?!
There's NOTHING to change about this squad that wasn't bloody obvious a year before today. He should have come into the job on day one and said "he's gone, he's gone, I want him and him". Not spend 11 months getting to know the players. We're not an obscure regional football club; 99% of his opinions should have been formed before meeting any of the playing staff, let alone still not being sure 11 months later.
Bizarrely this is one of the few columns questioning his position today, the mainstream media continue to make excuses for Moyes. I now understand Andre Villas-Boas' anger.
This is the kind of thing we should be seeing in the papers today. Not this weak, chummy journalism that dares not question David Moyes.
I just can't keep doing this. From the first time we dropped points up until now, he keeps trying the same things that don't work and I can't see any progress at all. In fact, we're just repeating the same game plan week after week and the same mistakes over and over again. I wouldn't cry about it if we're dropping points but the team is going into a direction like Liverpool had last season with Rodgers and showing improvement game after game but this is just downhill, no improvement at all since the start of the season.
You could buy him Ronnie and Messi, his gameplan would still be inadequate.
"Look son, you're not as effective Rory Delap so we have to think about how to deploy you. For the time being, keep it simple to stay close to the touch line. If the ball comes to you, get it in."
Imagine the slaughtering AVB would have took from the media if his team had put in a performance like that.
It is a huge problem that the club wants to stick with the manager and not implement a hire/fire mentality after Fergie's 26 years. Fergie was very clear about that. So with that in mind, I still cant see him being fired anytime soon eventhough it's obvious it's not working
We should just sell our top class players and sign the likes of Crouch, Kenwyn Jones, Pennant and Charlie Adams. It will make little different to our performances and we'll save some cost.
This
This. It's so bleeidn' obvious to anyone that has ever worked with people – not even in football – that sometimes you hire the wrong personell for key positions. And then you have to cut your losses before more harm is done.
Thus isn't FIFA he doesn't sit on the sidelines with a game pad controlling the players. Our players just saw the number of bodies ahead and didn't fancy taking them on.
Although why we didn't just launch it low and hope for an own goal i have no idea. Even shits had a good chance of being deflected in.
I agree totally, as for the monies being available the reason I questioned this is simply because of the amount of players/money required.
The players we hoped would step up simply haven't . It's unbelievable that we have let the squad get as old and bad as it has, without really addressing it. Not all Moyes fault
It's probably been said loads of times, but what's baffling is that we have this tactic with the players at disposal. If we had excellent wingers and mediocre players down the middle, I could understand it. But playing this kind of football when our wingers have been poor and when you have RvP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Carrick and co in the team, it's just incomprehensible. No ambition whatsoever.
Let's not forget the dog's abuse Valencia gets for trying that exact tactic!
That's because all too often his attempts don't get past the first defender, standing right in front of Valencia.
One of the things I don't like about this entire ordeal is how it makes me feel about Fergie. Deep down, my feeling is 'you did this to us' by insisting on Moyes. We always have to be cooler and different. Just appoint Mourinho last summer and be done with it. Why would we do that? Because he has proven to be the best man for the job. We must always over-complicate this footballing lark (from where I'm sat as a layman anyway). The likes of Matic or Vidal are leaving tier two teams for reasonable money, and other top teams are in by virtue of them being good players, but not us. We want to do it 'our way'. Top managers can be got, but again, we must be different.
I'm a little disappointed in myself as I would liked to have thought that it would have taken longer than until February for me to join the 'Moyes Out' camp. That said, he doesn't get to drag us to whatever depth he pleases with our full support. The right manager would have done better. Mourinho would have gotten more points. Guardiola would have gotten more points. Given that I believe our players are better than they are showing this year, and they have proven such, I see no other issue than the fact that Moyes can't get them to play for him. I don't think they respect him.
Sadly, I believe so long as he puts a kid from the academy on the pitch every so often, the powers that be wouldn't give much of a shit about what results we get. After all, 'we have had dark times before and Manchester United are all about young players'. If this rant makes me 'spoilt', then so be it. We have no divine right to win, but we should at least have a divine right to see the best that we are capable of. If we can't do that, changes should be made.
I think Moyes is a good manager/coach etc. This job however, was not about getting just a good manager. It was about getting a personality big enough to come in and take this club on and make it all about him. Big enough to take on the ghost of Fergie, and big enough for the players to be excited to come in and work for him. Without saying any names, it is obvious who that man was.
I'm a little disappointed in myself as I would liked to have thought that it would have taken longer than until February for me to join the 'Moyes Out' camp. That said, he doesn't get to drag us to whatever depth he pleases with our full support. The right manager would have done better. Mourinho would have gotten more points. Guardiola would have gotten more points. Given that I believe our players are better than they are showing this year, and they have proven such, I see no other issue than the fact that Moyes can't get them to play for him. I don't think they respect him.
Sadly, I believe so long as he puts a kid from the academy on the pitch every so often, the powers that be wouldn't give much of a shit about what results we get. After all, 'we have had dark times before and Manchester United are all about young players'. If this rant makes me 'spoilt', then so be it. We have no divine right to win, but we should at least have a divine right to see the best that we are capable of. If we can't do that, changes should be made.
I think Moyes is a good manager/coach etc. This job however, was not about getting just a good manager. It was about getting a personality big enough to come in and take this club on and make it all about him. Big enough to take on the ghost of Fergie, and big enough for the players to be excited to come in and work for him. Without saying any names, it is obvious who that man was.
Genuine question for those on here are still behind Moyes:
What is it you see in him, or the way we have set about since him joining the club, that makes you think he is the right man?
What is it you see in him, or the way we have set about since him joining the club, that makes you think he is the right man?
Just what does we owe Moyes to make us obliged to:
1. Give him time to learn
2. Give him time to adapt
3. Give him time to make mistakes (over and over again)
4. Shower him with millions to cover for his ineptitude
5. Stick by him through this mess
We owe him nothing, he's paid millions, he failed to deliver (facts, all his coming good is yet to be proven and closer to wishful thinking, the only thing that's fact is the record he broke and our league position), at any job if you perform badly you will have to face the consequences, there's no free lunch in this world.
Yet we somehow created layers of layers of excuse simply to try to justify his increasing unjustifiable position. We are the laughing stock of Europe now, and although we have proven them wrong on more than one ocassion in the past, I have never felt so hopeless in trying to find what might lies at the end of that tunnel.
With the class of 92, although people laugh at as, but they did possess special talents that makes us persist and persevere, so does Fergie during his barren reign, Fletcher before he came good, and Ronaldo off course, as much as we critize his showboating and lack of end product, the potential was there for us to stick with him faithfully.
What do you really see in Moyes that makes you want to go through the tide of shite to defend the man?
1. Give him time to learn
2. Give him time to adapt
3. Give him time to make mistakes (over and over again)
4. Shower him with millions to cover for his ineptitude
5. Stick by him through this mess
We owe him nothing, he's paid millions, he failed to deliver (facts, all his coming good is yet to be proven and closer to wishful thinking, the only thing that's fact is the record he broke and our league position), at any job if you perform badly you will have to face the consequences, there's no free lunch in this world.
Yet we somehow created layers of layers of excuse simply to try to justify his increasing unjustifiable position. We are the laughing stock of Europe now, and although we have proven them wrong on more than one ocassion in the past, I have never felt so hopeless in trying to find what might lies at the end of that tunnel.
With the class of 92, although people laugh at as, but they did possess special talents that makes us persist and persevere, so does Fergie during his barren reign, Fletcher before he came good, and Ronaldo off course, as much as we critize his showboating and lack of end product, the potential was there for us to stick with him faithfully.
What do you really see in Moyes that makes you want to go through the tide of shite to defend the man?
Its his fault the tactics didnt change by the hour mark.
We only need 4 players. Would of probably been two if he done the job right in the summer. Get a new manager in and even are crap players probably improve 20%.
When Januzaj was introduced it was after 2-3 minutes of being talked at by Moyes: First thing Januzaj does? Cross!
Funny thing is, he goes all across Europe to scout for Players (claims he himself)
But he ended up with buying a player he manages for a good years at his old club (and still fails to find a use for him), and a player down the block which he never actually scouts in person.
But he ended up with buying a player he manages for a good years at his old club (and still fails to find a use for him), and a player down the block which he never actually scouts in person.
People are missing the point. It's not that moyes failed to change the gameplan/tactic away from crosses, its that there was nothing to change to. It's the same tactic we have been using all season.
We didnt choose to go wide and cross to combat a deep narrow fulham, it was fulham who knew it was the best defence against a team that has had only one style all season. We got tactically beaten by fulham...at home.
Lets be clear, moyes isnt the only one to blame here, this was mostly our gameplan last year too.
I do worry however, how much better everton have been this year without moyes and staff. Even without one of their 'best' players... Could you imagine fellaini in this everton side?
We didnt choose to go wide and cross to combat a deep narrow fulham, it was fulham who knew it was the best defence against a team that has had only one style all season. We got tactically beaten by fulham...at home.
Lets be clear, moyes isnt the only one to blame here, this was mostly our gameplan last year too.
I do worry however, how much better everton have been this year without moyes and staff. Even without one of their 'best' players... Could you imagine fellaini in this everton side?
5 for the team and some more to strengthen the depth of the squad in my opinion
Left back, Centre Half or 2, Two Midfielders.
Personally i thought they did but only because Fulham were a little more open. As soon as we took the lead we played differently again.
I have a difference of opinion with most on here as i don't think the manager has much say beyond general guidelines given to players. Players are never that robotic but a good manager would have fed back to the players to change during the game.
We've always been a time that likes using the wings, but never to this extent. Even last year our game had much more variety to it, it was also due to Carrick having an excellent season and being able to find some good solutions through the middle from CM.
That what makes Mourinho >>>> >Moyes.
Fulham knew we will play that way because we have been playing like that thru thin and thinner, it's not a surprise they're ready for it. Better teams would not only defend well but they'll be crafting to ram our backside while doing so. Imagine what would Barca / Madrid do to us.
He digs this on himself, it simply means he can't beat Fulham tactically (players quality aside), he falls for it, and he can't come up with anything different to unlock a parking bus (which to be fair, you'll gonna meet more than a few parked bus eventually if you're successful enough).
We played like this with SAF, but we're so hard to defend because you'll never know when that cut from middle is going to come, with this team it's guaranteed like a daylight where the next attack will come.
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