Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]

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redIndianDevil said:
Why is Pogba, Martial and Shaw's commitment constantly get questioned when Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez get away with murder? It's like if you keep brown nosing Mourinho you can get away with anything in our team.
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This is very much spot on.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
I'm not blaming one man, there are plenty in the squad who aren't up to scratch, but as this is a thread about pogba that's who I am discussing, and as an aside I couldn't give a nuns furry chuff if he won a world cup, so did kleberson, it's not relevant in any way to his performances for utd.
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Your discussing Pogba being a virus and your pretty much agreeing. So do you believe he’s the only virus? You know the dancing Instagram guy. Yes Kleberson did win a World Cup so did Vampeta. Have that same energy when Mourinho tells us all the titles he’s won.
 
1. I am astounded by the "what does Mourinho gain from this? He's the virus" shit going around here. If true, it was said behind closed doors. The same way Fergie called Ince out many times and got into various rows with Schmeichel and Giggs. What's he supposed to do? Not say a word? I'm all for a new manager but, some of the double standards you lot have...Worse than the FA

2. Kanchelskis, Keane, RvN, Beckham, Ince, Pallister to name just a few, all had issues or fell out with Fergie. Yet, you can never accuse any of them of going through the motions and not playing for themselves, the fans and the club! Paul Pogba does not care about you, me, any of the rest of the supporters or the club! I am sick of him and his wanktastic performances
 
midnightmare said:
Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.

That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.

In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).

Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
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Superb.....look at the manager and you'll see the team. We are now long past individual performances as like you say, there are too many players now to have a polarised debate
 
It's disgraceful if he's leaked this (not sure what the manager would have to gain?) but behind closed doors is fine.

Pogba has serious problems in his play but they won't be allowed to be discussed on here until Jose is gone. I'm not sure why we can't discuss his faults because the manager is also underperforming but there you go. The elements of his play that are unrelated to the manager are quite obvious.
 
fecking hell, Jose fans can't wait to bring Fegie into every discussion, Fergie did this, that :lol:
 
.Rossi said:
1. I am astounded by the "what does Mourinho gain from this? He's the virus" shit going around here. If true, it was said behind closed doors. The same way Fergie called Ince out many times and got into various rows with Schmeichel and Giggs. What's he supposed to do? Not say a word? I'm all for a new manager but, some of the double standards you lot have...Worse than the FA

2. Kanchelskis, Keane, RvN, Beckham, Ince, Pallister to name just a few, all had issues or fell out with Fergie. Yet, you can never accuse any of them of going through the motions and not playing for themselves, the fans and the club! Paul Pogba does not care about you, me, any of the rest of the supporters or the club! I am sick of him and his wanktastic performances
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So your point is that Fergie and Jose were different? Great. Glad I got that. Wouldn't have known it by the play and results so far...

Note: When Fergie "fell out" with a player, he didn't fecking play him for 90 minutes and then leak to the press that he'd labelled him a virus. FFS!
 
Unhappy manager, unhappy players, unhappy fans. Miserable football. Constant negative media stories.

Why is this being allowed to continue?

If it wasn't Arsenal I'd be hoping to see 25000 empty seats at Old Trafford on Wednesday.
 
Smores said:
It's disgraceful if he's leaked this (not sure what the manager would have to gain?) but behind closed doors is fine.

Pogba has serious problems in his play but they won't be allowed to be discussed on here until Jose is gone. I'm not sure why we can't discuss his faults because the manager is also underperforming but there you go. The elements of his play that are unrelated to the manager are quite obvious.
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He has been one of our better players. Jose is the problem and his acting is a disgrace
 
How cute True Reds.
If you want to sell anyone then first start with selling Lukaku, Matic, Fellaini, Jones, Smalling, Rojo etc.
He's not going anywhere unless 100 million plus offer comes from somewhere, in my opinion. Even then, I don't think the club would want to let go of him until they have properly replaced him.
 
Getting ridiculous. Every time Jose is feeling the heat he's going to leak a public feud. Now the sacking discussion is back to player power not his incompetence. One manchild managing another.
 
Getting rid of both in summer (or earlier) will detoxify the club massively.

Jose is a disgrace but Pogba is clearly a huge destabilising presence and cannot fulfil the role of leader in the dressing room which we clearly need.

All the talent in the world won’t change this. He belongs at a PSG or Real where player egos rule.
 
There's criticising your players behind closed doors, telling them they played shit, saying they disrespected the shirt .... but calling someone a virus probably goes a bit far.

There is a virus at Old Trafford and it's spread further than the pitch and the dressing room.

Woodward, Mourinho, Glazers...
 
Quality control
midnightmare said:
So your point is that Fergie and Jose were different? Great. Glad I got that. Wouldn't have known it by the play and results so far...

Note: When Fergie "fell out" with a player, he didn't fecking play him for 90 minutes and then leak to the press that he'd labelled him a virus. FFS!
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Fair point that last one.

Other than that, you can piss off and do one. Smarmy plectrum
 
Greck said:
Getting ridiculous. Every time Jose is feeling the heat he's going to leak a public feud. Now the sacking discussion is back to player power not his incompetence. One manchild managing another.
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Not really, this piles more pressure on Jose to be sacked as it should. It's not diversionary in the slightest.
 
midnightmare said:
Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.

That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.

In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).

Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
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Good post, other than me not being 100% sure Castles leak = Mourinho (other than from what's generally been assumed here on the Caf).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is this assumption that Mourinho leaked this based 100% on the identity of the journo that wrote the story?

Only isn’t it possible that Duncan Castles has more than one source at the club?
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Exactly. It could have been another player who leaked it who’s pissed off with pogbas attitude or Jose’s man management. The real pity is it’s hard to tell which is the bigger problem any more.
 
Pogba was indeed poor against Soton, as many has pointed out.

I think one of Mourinho's biggest achievements at United is that he has managed to drain everyone ounce of confidence out of our most talented players, steered them towards Sunday league performances on the pitch and YET somehow get backing from a lot of United supporters when he leaks his unhappiness with a player in the press.

Our supposedly best players aren't performing to United standards, no doubt about that, but at the same time there is not a shadow of a doubt that the main/sole reason for that is Mourinho. Moyes and LVG was ruining our stature by simply being not good enough, Mourinho is pissing on our club and wrecking havoc on purpose.

If Pogba's showboating or lack of great perfomances are speeding up Mourinho's sacking process, then I'm all for him to continue doing so. This season is ruined anyway.
 
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el3mel said:
He's poison not because of problems outfield, but because of his stinking attitude on the pitch. He just plays when he likes too, and when he's not in the mood to play he becomes a hindrance not just a passenger. He'll keep doing this. It has nothing to do with play style or his teammates. He's moody and inconsistent, and has the attitude of an immature child.
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Man you keep calling him poison. No one here has any answers why such problems did not occur in Juventus or take place when he pulls on France shirt under Deschamps. Therefore, I would like to see him work under another manager in this club and then see how he behaves/plays. I think it's uncalled for to call him with such choice epithets when there is enough evidence to show that he has carried us many times and he is still a very young player with his best yet to come. Therefore, club needs to bring better players. I believe Fred could have been that player but reasons best known to Mr. Mourinho he has been kept frozen. Pogba is a unique midfielder with an amazing physique and the exquisite technique to operate in tight spaces to create chances. He's not a player who is going to single-handedly pull us over the line every time. It's a team sport. Don't expect miracle work from a single player every single time. He's bound to have an off day when he's playing under such a negative manager.

el3mel said:
He will keep having great games follwed by stinkers. The only way he will succeed here is if we bring him a full team of world class players to bail him out when he decides he's not in the mood to play.
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Of course, he would want to play with better players who can at least keep up with him. Do you think players like Messi and Ronaldo would want to play with a forward like Lukaku and midfield partners such as Matic and Fellaini? No, they won't. Nobody likes passengers. One reason Pogba likes to play with Martial is that both talented players complement one another on the pitch.

Let's not forget Mourinho has a pretty sordid history of falling out with important figures of the dressing room. If I am not wrong, Iniesta has come out with something about him causing dissensions in the Spanish National Team.
 
I think it is hilarious that Jose has the cheek to call a player a virus. Having said that I would never back Pogba whole heartedly as he is an enigma who could also prove problematic for a future manager too just be virtue of his tactical deficiencies.

For now let’s feck Jose off first and then focus on trying to get the best out of Pogba and then judge him then. No point judging any player under Jose as he has previous in losing far better players than Pogba and slagging them off as work shy .
 
.Rossi said:
Like it or not, every single manager we have is going to be compared to Alex Ferguson.

Moyes was, LvG was and now Mourinho is.

You and the poster you quoted might want to remember that
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They will be compared to what SAF achieved and trophies won, not how every player was treated.

Jose has been at the club for 2.5 years and the team he fell out with is probably strong than his soldiers.
 
VP89 said:
Pogba isn't close to what Hazard is as a player.
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Volumiza said:
But pogba doesn’t change as many games as I beleive he should for the price he cost and the status he expects.
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The Pogba at juventus was a very good player, in the cusp of world class, and definitely someone who can lift a team the way Hazard does for Chelsea.

Pogba has been with Jose at United throughout his time here so it's difficult to judge him based on his performances here, though he had shown glimpses.

Jose on the other hand has continued to pick fights with players in the squad, and will continue to. How many players can you fire from a team to appease a manager who hasn't achieved much in his time here?
 
Is Castles still Mourinho's mouthpiece?

I know he was a couple of seasons ago - is it still the case?

Anyway, we're gonna lose to Arsenal on wednesday and Mourinho is gone on thursday. Quote me.
 
If Pogba is a virus what the hell is the manager?! Funny how he had no problems at Juve or with Deschamps.

I almost hope Arsenal hammer us, this needs to end soon. He’s destroying this football club, it’s like he’s an undercover Man City employee or something.
 
Sick of Pogba always being made the scapegoat tbh. Yes he was dreadful on Saturday and his attitude is questionable at times, but is this the best way to go in isolating one of the few genuine world class players at your club? Other players from different teams will be looking at this and be thinking 'no way I'm going to that club if this is how they treat players'. It's just not a good look at all. If Jose doesn't want to be here (which Castles is alluding to), then just get rid of him before he tears the whole club down with him.
 
Siddharth said:
Man you keep calling him poison. No one here has any answers why such problems did not occur in Juventus or take place when he pulls on France shirt under Deschamps. Therefore, I would like to see him work under another manager in this club and then see how he behaves/plays. I think it's uncalled for to call him with such choice epithets when there is enough evidence to show that he has carried us many times and he is still a very young player with his best yet to come. Therefore, club needs to bring better players. I believe Fred could have been that player but reasons best known to Mr. Mourinho he has been kept frozen. Pogba is a unique midfielder with an amazing physique and the exquisite technique to operate in tight spaces to create chances. He's not a player who is going to single-handedly pull us over the line every time. It's a team sport. Don't expect miracle work from a single player every single time. He's bound to have an off day when he's playing under such a negative manager.



Of course, he would want to play with better players who can at least keep up with him. Do you think players like Messi and Ronaldo would want to play with a forward like Lukaku and midfield partners such as Matic and Fellaini? No, they won't. Nobody likes passengers. One reason Pogba likes to play with Martial is that both talented players complement one another on the pitch.

Let's not forget Mourinho has a pretty sordid history of falling out with important figures of the dressing room. If I am not wrong, Iniesta has come out with something about him causing dissensions in the Spanish National Team.
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Well no, Pogba was always inconsistent and for all the talk about World Cup, he was massively criticized for his performance for them prior to it. The difference is his teammates bail him out and he was used as a cog in a machine. We're not going to provide him with such quality, no English club can.

The difference between the players Mourinho fall with and Pogba is they actually gave their team far more, won them games anr big trophies and were great even under Mourinho himself before falling out with him, so it was clear the problem the problem is in Mourinho. For Pogba, he has been inconsistent here and had exactly same problems in his first season even when his relationship with Mourinho was good at this time.

The problem is you simply need a dirty work in Englane as a midfielder if you want to succeed. Pogba doesn't want to do that. He doesn't even press the player who cuts the ball of him. He acts as if his job is done once he lost the ball and it's someone else problem. He can get out with this in Italy or France but not in England.
 
midnightmare said:
Some things to see though. Firstly, the parts I agree on:
1. Yes - it was a disgraceful performance by Pogba. No debates about that. He was truly awful.
2. What was said behind closed doors is one thing - it's fine to blast and slam in private.

That said:
1. Can it be called "behind closed doors" when the manager then leaks it (directly or through his agent) to the Press (because Castles is very much Jose's / Mendes' man)?
2. If Jose felt this strongly, why did Pogba not only get a start, but get to play the full 90? That's not the treatment you expect towards a player that the manager feels is not only failing to pull his weight, but also lowering the performance levels of others.

In this argument, I don't think Pogba's performance level is even relevant. Frankly, we've seen equally or more abject displays from Jose's favoured sons as well - Matic and Lukaku to name just two. Jose is entitled to rant "behind closed doors", but it's telling that every time he (allegedly) has a go at Pogba, it is his favoured journos (for leaks) that come out with the quotes and words. Last time too, it was Castles who had the alleged dope and the same this time. That leads me to see it as Jose deliberately crucifying Pogba in the Press.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. No employee in any field can be held guilty for under-performing in these circumstances. As for "sand-bagging", people miss the point when it comes to sport:
1. Unlike other fields, you can't go slow and work more time when you're not at your peak. In sport, the intensity has to be at it's peak for the full game.
2. At the top, the difference between a great game and an ordinary one is tiny. The slightest dip in focus results in "horrid" games. That's what we're seeing across our team and that is why it's down to the manager.
3. In other fields, you have the option of quitting and joining a better place. No "contracts" to hold you. After a point, it's not the money that keeps you in a job, it's the lack of an incentive to quit (not the external incentive to join; the internal reason to have your CV in the market in the first place).

Anyone with any background in management will tell you of the old truism, "when a whole team is under-performing / seeing high attrition, look at the manager". As I said, poor performances from good players are always a symptom of a greater malaise. When it comes from many, that malaise is no longer "individual" to the players.
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I'm joining the bandwagon of praising your post. Regarding the last part, it is absolutely baffling that there are still some people who don't see it. If a single individual was not performing then ok, you could look at that as evidence that the individual is'nt up to standards required. But when pretty much everyone single one of the on paper most talented individuals are sub-par?
 
As much as I have been personally trying to still see some positives with Jose, bearing in mind that our squad is not good enough and we need time to rebuild and clear out the dead wood, however the constant attacks towards our best players is simply unacceptable. A manager can criticize his players endlessly, especially the top players who are playing like shit, Pogba in the last game for example, but to constantly pass this kind of information to the media is just unacceptable and unprofessional. We will end up losing our best players in this squad because of this shit. Fergie used to roast his players but did you hear anything in the media regarding that manner? Only after their retirement that some players mentioned some hair-dryer treatment here and there but we NEVER EVER heard anything of that.

Mourinho is apparently trying to show the board that when he is not backed up properly, he will not deliver, simple as that. The board must look for a replacement and this takes time however we should not start next season with him in charge (and that is the worst case scenario for us waiting). 25 million is peanuts to a financial giant like our club, so give him his money and sack him.

I feel this sacking for Jose will never get him a decent job again, he has been sacked for so many times now and the way he is constantly going for our players in public (Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Pogba) will surely be taken into consideration whenever any future club decides to hire him. For us as a club we will re-assemble and rebuild and become successful again I am sure of that. Although some posters here do not fancy Ed Woodward's work, however I think he has got the targets Jose wanted and concluded most deals, it was up to Mourinho to bring the best out of them and be fair in his team treatment and selection, which he didn't so I'd say good riddance and looking forward to our next manager.
 
I've never detested one of our managers as much as I do now. LvG was at least an entertaining character even if he was the wrong fit for us and Moyes was so pathetic you had to have at least a shred of sympathy for the man. José has no redeeming features whatsoever. Just a complete and utter cnut of a man who doesn't even have the decency or pride to keep doing his job to the best of his abilities.
 
Ed will be rubbing his hands together. Do we have an official anti virus software sponsor?
 
José calling anyone a virus is the epitome of someone in a glass house, throwing countless stones.

Pogba is underperforming, but José is a rancid, toxic entity. How on earth is he still here?!
 
Pogba has barely put in a decent performance since rejoining. Ten minutes here and there, the occasional good half. Nothing more. He slows things down and arses about on the ball, loses it then stands and moans. If I got a choice of getting rid of him or Jose (and it could only be one), it would be Pogba every time. World-class? My arse
 
Mourinho is the cancer that is eating away what is good in the club.
 
mitchmouse said:
Pogba has barely put in a decent performance since rejoining. Ten minutes here and there, the occasional good half. Nothing more. He slows things down and arses about on the ball, loses it then stands and moans. If I got a choice of getting rid of him or Jose (and it could only be one), it would be Pogba every time. World-class? My arse
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So you would get rid of the player that has been put in a one man midfield for 2 and half season over the manager that has created that issue?
 
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