I think Rafa was rated as very good but not great which is pretty fair.
Most overrated ex Manchester United players
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
PL title in the singular, I don’t think they win in 2004 against that Arsenal team with Ferdinand. I don’t remember him being *that* good before Vidic came, or at least didn’t peak at United until after drugs test ban. When Vidic came it felt like United hit another level defensively.
It’s Scholes. He was a wonderful footballer but he’s vastly overrated by most United fans.
Nah. He's far too good to be viewed as overrated.
Were top in Jan at the time of his suspension. Before Vidic Rio had made the premier league team of the year 2X, lead a Leeds defense on a deep CL run, won a league cup with United also
For me it is Roy Keane. A better captain than he was a player.
People rated his mentality more than him actually on the ball.
.
Still to this day you will hear how he gets in to any team of the century when i don't believe that to be true.
It was like when people said that Ruud was good as Henry when that was obviously not the case. Keane might have been better than Viera but i wouldnt rate Viera that highly as the best midfielders of all time.
I think Carrick is rated fine. A level below Scholes & Keane but a level above Butt. His long passing was great but he didn't have defensive capability to play as the single CDM either so playing Scholes & Carrick deeper was hard because of his incapable ability off the ball and is probably why he didn't get chosen for England much aswell. This is why for me when Hargreaves came for one season or two - we went up a level as a team.
People rated his mentality more than him actually on the ball.
.
Still to this day you will hear how he gets in to any team of the century when i don't believe that to be true.
It was like when people said that Ruud was good as Henry when that was obviously not the case. Keane might have been better than Viera but i wouldnt rate Viera that highly as the best midfielders of all time.
I think Carrick is rated fine. A level below Scholes & Keane but a level above Butt. His long passing was great but he didn't have defensive capability to play as the single CDM either so playing Scholes & Carrick deeper was hard because of his incapable ability off the ball and is probably why he didn't get chosen for England much aswell. This is why for me when Hargreaves came for one season or two - we went up a level as a team.
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I may be wrong but I remember Giggs being very frustrating for large periods of his career. You can’t argue with the trophy haul or the longevity of course. I just think he was also quite lucky to be part of great teams and had a manager who adored him and most likely covered up for him when he was being a terrible human. He was a lot more consistent in midfield for his final few seasons than he was on the wings at any stage apart from his breakout years. The hamstring injuries killed what made him truly special
Carrick is correctly rated. A mainstay in our midfield who won everything. The reason people mention him so much now is because no one mentioned him when he was playing. Scholes has mentioned how much he appreciated playing alongside him. It's the same situation as Park, no one appreciated him until he was gone. People appreciating a legend isn't overrating them. I don't think Carrick was as talented as Hargreaves and who knows what would have happened if Hargreaves had knees. I'm absolutely gutted that his career got ruined by injuries and then he stabbed us in the back and went to the Blue Waffles.
Scholes, Giggs, Schmeichel being mentioned 
This. Absolutely embarrassing. Someone will probably mention the king at some point, too.Scholes, Giggs, Schmeichel being mentioned
Criminal takes.
Every young academy player that ends up leaving us for a noting club.
Hannibal and Pallestri being the latest.
Hannibal and Pallestri being the latest.
Some of the takes in this thread is just embarrassing. Imagine calling Scholes overrated , Keane overrated, Vidic overrated, Giggs overrated. I would love to have those overrated players in our current team.
The fact you think that about xabi alonso says it all.
For balance, I've only ever liked 2 Liverpool players; Xabi Alonso and John Barnes.
Januzaj under Moyes. Within a couple of games he was being made (unfairly) to be the savour of the team and there was constant talk of not losing him to Madrid before he signed his contract.
His enduring positive legacy was taking his 1st date to Nando’s.
His enduring positive legacy was taking his 1st date to Nando’s.
Russel Beardsmore
Lee Sharpe
Paul Parker
Lee Sharpe
Paul Parker
It is the opposite, he is underrated on the ball. Brilliant passer who was actually better at it than young Scholes. He was the one who ran the midfield. Absolutely central to our most successful period.
I know it's only a video game but it has massive influence across the world, EA give Keane only 86 rating as an icon whereas Vieira, Gerrard and Scholes are 88, Petit and Lampard are 87 for example. So if anything Keane is underrated tbh.
Says what though? I can think that a player was very good, whilst realising that he had moments, seasons even, when his standards seem to have dipped. I think that he was more consistent during his time at Madrid.
Barnes was unreal. I watched his interview with Lineker, about how he had to switch his style of play following a bad injury. The fact that he could do this, moving more central, whilst still playing at the top level speaks to just how good he was.
Scholes? G Neville? Beckham? Keane?
Ah, let's go with Charlton, Cantona and Best while we're at it? Oh, and SAF wasn't that good either.
Joke of a thread.
Ah, let's go with Charlton, Cantona and Best while we're at it? Oh, and SAF wasn't that good either.
Joke of a thread.
2003/04 could have gone either way until Rio got banned. We were actually top of the ladder until his last game, at which time we lost that match by conceding after he went off which allowed Arsenal to move ahead by two points. After that Arsenal went on a run of another 7 wins in a row, but then only won four of their last nine games (obviously drawing all the others). If they'd got the same point tally anyway they 'probably' would have just beaten us, but we would have been right on their tails and who knows how they would have reacted to the extra pressure.
Rio definitely peaked in 06/07 and 07/08 (the two years he was the best in the world IMO) which was after Vidic arrived, but he was still very good before that. Had a few too many mistakes in him to be truly one of the best in the world at that time, but he was still very good while having the potential to get even better if he ironed out the mistakes.
In 08/09 Rio declined due to the back injury and was never quite the same again. From that point forward Vidic was then better (partly because of Rio's decline, partly because of Vida himself getting even better). The fact that Rio was still arguably the second best in the world for a couple of seasons despite an obvious decline showed how good he was for those couple of seasons before that.
Roy Keane was a fantastic passer of the ball.
Ridiculous to try and claim otherwise.
The younger Scholes? Yeah, I'd probably agree with you to some extent (although not being as good as Keane is an extremely harsh bar since Keane is arguably the best midfielder in PL history).
But when Scholes returned from his eye problem in the 06/07 season he reinvented himself as a deep-lying playmaker, and that's the version of Scholes that is rated up there amongst the very best. I'd say that that rating is absolutely fair for that period of his career.
Man Utd over rated xi, now looks like this.
Schmeichel
G. Neville Rio Vidic Evra
Beckham Keane Carrick Giggs
Scholes
Rooney
Subs: VDS, Stam, Heinze, RVN, Park
G. Neville Rio Vidic Evra
Beckham Keane Carrick Giggs
Scholes
Rooney
Subs: VDS, Stam, Heinze, RVN, Park
All good points to be fair. My issue is that you often see people here claim that Ferdinand was a tier/level above Vidic because of technique on the ball, when it wasn't the case when they were playing together. Look at the best PL CBs thread or some other thread and you will have people putting Ferdinand in the top 2 and Vidic outside the top 8 or not even on their lists. When if you look at accolades from the time:
Vidic 2x World XI, Ferdinand 1x
Vidic 3x ESM Team of the Year, Ferdinand 1x
Vidic 2x Premier League Player of the Season, Ferdinand 0x (don't think he was ever close)
Vidic 1x Matt Busby Player of the Season, Ferdinand 0x
Vidic 1x Players' Player of the Year, Ferdinand 0x
Rio had more teams of the year - 6 v 4 but it was 6/19 in the division as a senior player vs 4/8 for Vidic
Premier League Player of the Year in particular, Vidic, Ronaldo, De Bruyne and Thierry Henry are the only multiple winners. That's the company he's keeping. Maybe it's a case where Vidic is underrated than Ferdinand is overrated.
Hargreaves is the overrated one for me. Barely played, and when he did his best games were in a wide midfield role specialized role, yet people think he was somehow instrumental and even more so than Carrick who played nearly always.
he’s talking absolute nonsense but your maths is a bit off here
Anyone rating Vidic outside the top 8 is definitely underrating him, that's for sure. When rating PL defenders I personally would have him #3. I think Rio's absolute peak was higher (I rate his 07/08 as the best season for a defender in PL history, and probably the best in the world since Nesta in 02), but Vidic was almost as good the very next season. In fact he was somehow even better for the first half of 08/09, but dropped off a bit in the second half of the season so that's why I don't think he was quite as good as Rio had been the previous season.
For individual honours, Rio's two incredible seasons coincided with Ronaldo's two incredible seasons so he was never going to win any of the Player of the Season awards. Plus I do think that outside of Utd he was actually quite underrated at the time, as most opposition fans held his slightly inconsistent previous form against him for years after he'd actually ironed it out.
Agree with De Gea. We believed, including me at that time, he was the best in the world although he wasn't at any point in his career.
Scholes one is surprising and has been mentioned too often. Also the fact that people are saying he only turned world-class after 2004 which is funny as he played for almost 8-9 more years after that.
My overrated 11:
-----------------------------------De Gea-------------------------
Varela------------Lindelof--------------Rojo--------Blind
------------------------Herrera-------------Pogba-----------------
Ravel Morrison-----------Kagawa------------------Rashford
------------------------------------Depay---------------------------
De Gea - Good keeper and great shot stopper at his best. Some glaring flaws to his game though that stop bit being top top tier.
Varela - Got mentioned for years with people screaming for him to be in the team.
Lindelof - "Ice man" that melts under pressure. Zero attributed to make him a top defender.
Rojo - Decent player but too erratic to be top class.
Blind - Decent player but the love in for him was / is ridiculous. As far as I can tell, because he had long hair.
Herrera - Again, decent but loved on here and I could never see why.
Pogba - All the talent but bad attitude.
Kagawa - Just a nothing player really but made out like he was Ozil.
Ravel - Glorified as one of the most talented player ever but just did nothing to warrant the hype.
Rashford - No explanation needed.
Depay - Had a weird cult following and still seems to with some. Again, decent but nothing amazing.
-----------------------------------De Gea-------------------------
Varela------------Lindelof--------------Rojo--------Blind
------------------------Herrera-------------Pogba-----------------
Ravel Morrison-----------Kagawa------------------Rashford
------------------------------------Depay---------------------------
De Gea - Good keeper and great shot stopper at his best. Some glaring flaws to his game though that stop bit being top top tier.
Varela - Got mentioned for years with people screaming for him to be in the team.
Lindelof - "Ice man" that melts under pressure. Zero attributed to make him a top defender.
Rojo - Decent player but too erratic to be top class.
Blind - Decent player but the love in for him was / is ridiculous. As far as I can tell, because he had long hair.
Herrera - Again, decent but loved on here and I could never see why.
Pogba - All the talent but bad attitude.
Kagawa - Just a nothing player really but made out like he was Ozil.
Ravel - Glorified as one of the most talented player ever but just did nothing to warrant the hype.
Rashford - No explanation needed.
Depay - Had a weird cult following and still seems to with some. Again, decent but nothing amazing.
15 , my point still standshe’s talking absolute nonsense but your maths is a bit off here
I've said it a long ago, the issue with this kind of threads usually it's:
. Some will be called overrated because of being Very good to Excellent, but not Pele level while they feel that were treated as such or as the best player in the world: players mostly like Beckham, but can happen with a Rooney, Cantona, Schmeichel etc and think that they do not deserve it.
. Some people will think like the first situation, but regarding players that the majority feels are not in a Rooney level, someone like Carrick, that being complete and great for the club does not feel enough on a world wide enviroment in comparison with other players with bigger names. This sometimes can even happen to players with a bigger status like Keane if somebody feels that someone like Rikjaard was better and feels that Roy it's treated with more or less the same praise.
. Some people will let their feelings towards certain players that left badly the club or didn't have the best of their carreers in United, Pogba, Tevez, Di Maria...etc.
. Some players were good, to very good on some day, but clearly not top notch or all timer like Heinze, yet having very good to great perfomances for the club, so some people feel they were overrated (same happens with players without even that great, but solid and nice dudes)
. Some will use the world overrated with players as talented as Scholes, usually the type of: player's player, because they do not have the numbers, stats, athletism or status of a Zidane and they feel that sometimes are treated with praise they do not deserve, more or less happens the same for inconsistent, less vocal, or not in your face players, yet clear talented fellas.
. Players from the core of the club and more being from the Nationality of the club in case, would always receive more praise if they are very good to great, so some people thinks it's in an undeserving way.
PD: And finally the label "World Class", it's dubious as it comes. For me it's way over the top to think that World class it's someone that would instantly will be first team in a World 11, or be first team at any team or the so call Big Ones...it doesn't work that way, that's way too much and every team is a world on its own while being first team does not always has to do with quality. For a period of time Mascherano wasn't even called for West Ham's first eleven.
World Class for me it's simply a player manteining a very good to great level most of their carreers, that makes a name for himself at some period and that just feels somehow above a "normal" Elite player.
. Some will be called overrated because of being Very good to Excellent, but not Pele level while they feel that were treated as such or as the best player in the world: players mostly like Beckham, but can happen with a Rooney, Cantona, Schmeichel etc and think that they do not deserve it.
. Some people will think like the first situation, but regarding players that the majority feels are not in a Rooney level, someone like Carrick, that being complete and great for the club does not feel enough on a world wide enviroment in comparison with other players with bigger names. This sometimes can even happen to players with a bigger status like Keane if somebody feels that someone like Rikjaard was better and feels that Roy it's treated with more or less the same praise.
. Some people will let their feelings towards certain players that left badly the club or didn't have the best of their carreers in United, Pogba, Tevez, Di Maria...etc.
. Some players were good, to very good on some day, but clearly not top notch or all timer like Heinze, yet having very good to great perfomances for the club, so some people feel they were overrated (same happens with players without even that great, but solid and nice dudes)
. Some will use the world overrated with players as talented as Scholes, usually the type of: player's player, because they do not have the numbers, stats, athletism or status of a Zidane and they feel that sometimes are treated with praise they do not deserve, more or less happens the same for inconsistent, less vocal, or not in your face players, yet clear talented fellas.
. Players from the core of the club and more being from the Nationality of the club in case, would always receive more praise if they are very good to great, so some people thinks it's in an undeserving way.
PD: And finally the label "World Class", it's dubious as it comes. For me it's way over the top to think that World class it's someone that would instantly will be first team in a World 11, or be first team at any team or the so call Big Ones...it doesn't work that way, that's way too much and every team is a world on its own while being first team does not always has to do with quality. For a period of time Mascherano wasn't even called for West Ham's first eleven.
World Class for me it's simply a player manteining a very good to great level most of their carreers, that makes a name for himself at some period and that just feels somehow above a "normal" Elite player.
And by many United and non-United players from at least 6-7 different countries. Not sure what kool aid they all are drinking to call him a great.
Keane and Scholes being mentioned is criminal, can't even wrap my head around it.
I think Scholes went from being underrated to overrated to underrated again. I remember Piers Morgan put him in an all-time World XI, I think that level would be overrated, but he was still world-class. Keane is due to his media personality and how he left United I think, plus the hardman image rather than being a good technical footballer as well.
Especially when you consider the struggles we've had in midfield over the past number of years. I started watching football in the late 90s so I missed Robson and Ince but they are the only two central midfielders at the club that were genuinely world-class over multiple seasons. That's over 25 years. Carrick was a fine footballer but a level below that.
My definition of World Class is that if you were picking a best XI in the world, they would be part of the conversation but may not make the team.
So for example recently there could be 3 or 4 GKs
I think that's not that bad, but still it's too much, in fact a player that at least does not look out of place on any League also might be more accurate as being World Class with the aditament that he tends to be among the best/more important players in his team but even this last aspect it's not as important. And BTW would also involve some period in his carreer that he would be on a lesser version of himself. I trully do not give that term that much importance, mostly because it usually ends with people not giving a World Class label to someone like Scholes.
Victor Valdez.
Was never that great for Barcelona but he was willing to go along with Guardiola's passing out from the back gambit, which elevated him in a lot of people's minds.
Didn't have much of a career outside of that but he did kind of play for us so, on that basis, he's my answer.
It's clear reading through this thread that the vast majority of players who were actually key for us are underrated to an incredible degree.
Was never that great for Barcelona but he was willing to go along with Guardiola's passing out from the back gambit, which elevated him in a lot of people's minds.
Didn't have much of a career outside of that but he did kind of play for us so, on that basis, he's my answer.
It's clear reading through this thread that the vast majority of players who were actually key for us are underrated to an incredible degree.
For example in 2008 if you were picking a World XI, Scholes, Gerard and Lampard would be mentioned but might not make the team.
In 2010 the world midfield would be Busquets, Xavi and Inieste but lots of other world class midfielders like Alonso, Pirlo, Toure etc around.
I think it's a reasonably fair definition. There's normally 2/3/4 world class players per position.
I'd consider Evra, Vidic and Rio as world class but they might not make world 11 back then. It could've been Terry and Canavaro instead.
I've heard people say "it means they'd walk into any team" but it was impossible for anyone to make that Barca/Spain team back then.
Right now Haaland is nailed on for striker position but you could play 4-4-2 and play Kane alongside him, but where to put Mbappe then!?