Fridge chutney
Do your best.
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- Sep 11, 2016
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Yep. The state of this thread.Scholes, Giggs, Schmeichel being mentioned
Yep. The state of this thread.Scholes, Giggs, Schmeichel being mentioned
For example in 2008 if you were picking a World XI, Scholes, Gerard and Lampard would be mentioned but might not make the team.
In 2010 the world midfield would be Busquets, Xavi and Inieste but lots of other world class midfielders like Alonso, Pirlo, Toure etc around.
I think it's a reasonably fair definition. There's normally 2/3/4 world class players per position.
I'd consider Evra, Vidic and Rio as world class but they might not make world 11 back then. It could've been Terry and Canavaro instead.
I've heard people say "it means they'd walk into any team" but it was impossible for anyone to make that Barca/Spain team back then.
Right now Haaland is nailed on for striker position but you could play 4-4-2 and play Kane alongside him, but where to put Mbappe then!?
You can’t be overrated if you’re not rated by many. This is a subjective topic, what is the point if we’re not allowed to state our opinion?And by many United and non-United players from at least 6-7 different countries. Not sure what kool aid they all are drinking to call him a great.
Let's say that my main difference with your view, it's that I think that there are way more than just 3 or 4 that can play for any team at any given moment that are trully class players. So that's why I think World Class normally ends on dennying such label to trully outstanding fellas.
And in many ways such denny it's not few times due to particular circumstances like some of the ones you've mentioned.
In fact back to Macherano as an example, but this time regarding Barcelona, in his prime he was an absolute beast of a defensive focus DM with good feet. Yet in that Barca, with a very Barca approach he wasn't going to be sellected for the middle of the park.
On the other hand, he was used as bizarre as it was as a CB, because that Barca team preffererd a mid minded player in such role instead of a classic CB and it worked wonders for them, while him even not being among the best pure CBs on the planet ended being (in my view) world class during that tenure by doing his asked task in great form.
At the end of the day for me World Class it's a cool label to congratulate a special player, a very talented one, but I do not see it as such an special or even taxative term as many people does.
In any case it's just arbitrary and subjective, like when I might classify players from Genius, to Phenom, to Cracks, Elite and lately very good players...it's arbitrary, it's my very own sellection of what I feel handy to qualify them in a very subjective manner.
I think it's the fairest definition.
You have to have some limit but with flexibility.
Mascherano was definitely world class. I remember one World Cup he was brilliant in his usual position.
Busquets was world class but I wonder how he would've performed for Stoke for example. He was excellent in a specific system.
Fergie said he only managed 4 world class players: Cantona, Giggs, Ronaldo and Scholes.
So his definition is very strict.
You could name at least 10 more players than that: Schmeichal, Irwin, Robson, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Keane, Becks, McGrath, Rooney.
Well what Fergie said it's precisly the reason why I think it usually ends being a silly label, when even people as huge as him says sthg like that, we know that it ends being most of times a silly term.
I think he deliberately omitted Keane and Rooney and Stam to stick the knife in.
I don't see anyone stopping you from stating your opinion. People are free to disagree with your or my opinions.This is a subjective topic, what is the point if we’re not allowed to state our opinion?
Yet no-one is actually engaging in any sort of argument (even you now despite my lengthy reply), resorting instead to laughing emojis and condescension. Great discussion.I don't see anyone stopping you from stating your opinion. People are free to disagree with your or my opinions.
Says what though? I can think that a player was very good, whilst realising that he had moments, seasons even, when his standards seem to have dipped. I think that he was more consistent during his time at Madrid.
Barnes was unreal. I watched his interview with Lineker, about how he had to switch his style of play following a bad injury. The fact that he could do this, moving more central, whilst still playing at the top level speaks to just how good he was.
Very unpopular two from me, but I think both Park and Fletcher have gained way more status over time.
As someone that was way too into United at the time, Fletcher wasn't a good enough replacement for Keane/Scholes and imo wasn't even quite as good as Butt. The biggest increase in his standing came when he was (incorrectly) sent off in the CL semi-final, and was then given the Hargreaves treatment (incredible as long as he doesn't play). He had one good season imo, the rest of the time was building up to maybe being good enough, and then sadly got ill and never got back to it.
Park was often played in attacking three and offered disasterously little goal threat. I million years ago I sadly worked out that our rate of dropping points was 3x higher when he was in the starting XI - at a time when we didn't drop many points. He absolutely had his uses, but that's what they were - specific use cases. His productivity was never good enough for a starter at a top team.
Now, both would be immediate starters in our current XI, but that's hardly a high bar for the 8th best team in England
The thing with Fletcher was that he was improving every year and then just as he was hitting his peak, he was struck down with illness.
There was a period in 2009 that Fletcher was the first name in the sheet.
Our eyes had to endure a lot till he could become a good player. So watching him becoming not just a good player but a magnificent one, when pretty much everyone had set his bar as a decent squad player, was such a joy. He was over achieving the expectations. Unfortunately, that didn't last long due to illness.
Anyway, regarding OPs question: Luke Shaw (in few years), Park, Neville, Valencia and DDG.
Which one?
Great post! I remember it all clicking in UCL games around 09-10 season, his passing came along very well, and mixed with his energy, and even heading ability.Agreed. As a result, I think he is hugely underrated by even knowledgeable United fans.
For a few years he could accurately be described as a squad player who came in, did the dirty stuff, put in the hard yards, but lacked quality. And that was a fair assessment. However, he then had an 18 month period where it all clicked, he added composure, skill and intelligence to his game. He was dominating matches, both physically and technically. He was deservedly picked in the PL Team of the Year. He was approaching his peak. And then his illness struck. It wasn't publicly announced originally. His performances dropped. Fans wrote him off, suggesting his good form was a freak purple patch and that he was now regressing to the norm, not realising the extent of the illness he was suffering.
If it weren't for that illness, he would be rated amongst our greatest centre midfielders.
Gary. If anything Phil is a bit underrated.
Away to Atlanta in Champions League.has to be CR 2.0. So much hype, couldn't score goal, couldn't run, no assist / team work, only complaint.
Whilst Stam was incredible, I always thought a lot of his legend is somewhat tied up in what could have been had he stuck around.
Granted, I was 7 when he signed for us so maybe not the best judge.
Nothing to do with him mainly starting against the bigger teams I’m sure.Very unpopular two from me, but I think both Park and Fletcher have gained way more status over time.
As someone that was way too into United at the time, Fletcher wasn't a good enough replacement for Keane/Scholes and imo wasn't even quite as good as Butt. The biggest increase in his standing came when he was (incorrectly) sent off in the CL semi-final, and was then given the Hargreaves treatment (incredible as long as he doesn't play). He had one good season imo, the rest of the time was building up to maybe being good enough, and then sadly got ill and never got back to it.
Park was often played in attacking three and offered disasterously little goal threat. I million years ago I sadly worked out that our rate of dropping points was 3x higher when he was in the starting XI - at a time when we didn't drop many points. He absolutely had his uses, but that's what they were - specific use cases. His productivity was never good enough for a starter at a top team.
Now, both would be immediate starters in our current XI, but that's hardly a high bar for the 8th best team in England
It's his own damn fault for constantly talking up how crap he was.Nah Gary is criminally underrated nowadays 100%.
Endrick would like to have a word with youSince some our best players have been mentioned.... I'll have a go.
Bobby Charlton, Best, Law and Robson.
Yup. I hate how negative Gary is about his playing career.It's his own damn fault for constantly talking up how crap he was.
Young people who didn't see either probably just assume Micah Richards was a better player due to the attitudes of each towards their own careers.
Thought about it but wasn’t sure it fit.Has anybody mentioned McTominay already? Too soon?
Other than Vidic, I've never known a player who's entire reputation who has been defined by one mistake.Vidic. He was world class on his day but not the all time great some make him out to be, was never as good as Rio or Stam. Got humiliated by Torres more than once.
Agree. Didn't Torres only score three goals against us? one was the Vidic mistake which everyone knows. One was a sprint against an injured Rio Ferdinand and the other was a very good header where he got between both defenders and in a game Liverpool lost.Other than Vidic, I've never known a player who's entire reputation who has been defined by one mistake.
He let the ball bounce instead of heading it and got robbed once.
What else is there? I'd love you to list all these other times he was "humiliated" by Torres?