I'd much prefer him to Mount. I don't get it with Mount at all.
But sure look ultimately its best that ten Hag gets what he wants most.
But sure look ultimately its best that ten Hag gets what he wants most.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Sometimes these things work out for the best. Preferred target doesn’t mean only target. See Klopp and Salah instead of receiving his top target - Brandt
Well, ETH likes for his fullback to tuck inside. Shaw is pretty good at carrying the ball and finding the right passes.
Caicedo was just 1 link so far post Mount's transfer drop right?
Yeh now we find Mount won’t be cheap we’ve moved to Hag’s first choice?
Or the manager thinks Mount fits what he wants to do better?
Why are we only negotiating with one target at a time?
Why are you assuming we aren't working on other targets as well? The only reason we have so much info about the Mount transfer is because we've been briefing the press to put pressure on Chelsea, and they've been leaking our bids for whatever reason.
There's zero reason to think that's the case.
We're not. We're also in talks for Onana (and Costa it seems) as well as Hojlund.
Mount is creative. He’s not what you call a flair player and not as graceful as Eriksen but he is involved at the sharp end with goals, assists and “key” passes.
I absolutely do not see EtH shifting his whole philosophy to fit two similar players in.
What shirt number will he wear?
15 would suit him well… or 5 once slab head kicks rocks.
This is all rather mind boggling. Caicedo is not a replacement for Mount. They are two very different players. Mount is a forward looking midfielder who scores and assists. Caicedo is a defensive midfield enforcer - a younger Casemiro who isn't in the Mount creative mould. And he will be far more expensive.
My concern all the while is that our planning on transfers yet again is woeful. We seem to be back to headless chickens mode lurching from one reactive idea to the next while other rivals are just doing their business and getting deals over the line. The ludicrous £40m bid for Mount which Chelsea were never going to accept shows that we have not learnt from past transfer dealing disasters. It is no surprise that this has fallen through.
My wish is quite simply that we actually have a transfer strategy that makes some semblance of sense rather than what continues to be more of the same at a time when we really should be backing the manager.
No wonder Rashford has not yet put pen to paper on a new contract.
There’s a misconception that Caicedo isn’t a great passer, the reality is he is really good at it and is a key component in Brighton’s system playing out from the back.
I think Caicedo would be a really good signing, but with my track record he’d actually probably turn out rubbish.
Mount is being targeted to play as an 8, Caicedo can play as a 6 or 8, I don’t know why people are getting so fussed over the idea of him as an alternative. We need Casemiro cover and we need a replacement for Fred/McTominay as an 8, Caicedo fills both those needs.
You don't need all your creativity to come from the middle, and even then, it can come from a multitude of players - Lisandro immediately pushes up into a DLP role in our attack with those two ahead of him for example.
The bigger issue is our flanks failing in terms of creativity and penetrative actions - the onus should be on the players behind them being able to find them frequently and them progressing the play, which is in need of address big time this preseason.
In terms of retentive possession and progressing through deep midfield into the offensive midfield area, Mount is definitely not that guy, irrespective of Caciedo's perceived weakness in such a role. In fact, if you refer to a single player who will come in and be transformative to us in that exact sense, you're talking FDJ calibre, which isn't viable. Truth is, it'll take us a while to be elite at ball progression, and if not a while, then a few midfielders brought in in short order who are top end in those facets, which isn't realistic.
We're likely to be following the model more of a prime Klopp Liverpool midfield than a Pep (or quality in possession) one because that is what our players are more suited to as a whole.
Bruno also goes back to being a more pure type of supplier to the attacking lines with those two behind him. Either that, or put right whilst we try to get a better midfield conduit in the offensive midfield.
Our attack needs a lot more fingers pointed at it, though; they simply cannot be that poor again. If such a midfield is able to recycle ball to them frequently, they have to be able to do something with it more often than not.
Yep passing stats are better than the stats of Rice who some consider an amazing passer, yet Caicedo is just an energetic CDM for some.
We wanted 2 midfielders this summer according to reports.
Also there is zero guarantee we get Mount next season. (When our budget won’t be as restrictive)
Mount isn't a masterful ball progressive. I think people are going to be let down if that's what they expect of him. He has his qualities for sure, but if people expect FDJ's mini-me, they're going to be disappointed.
Mount in addition to Caicedo would be a very different discussion, I think. One I don't think would be met with such negativity as Mount by himself.
No idea what he thinks given he is restricted by the budget. Or do you think he really wants to keep DDG instead of getting a new keeper?
Because the reports keep saying we’re moving on to another target, which suggests we’re focusing on one.
I don't believe we've really moved onto him. He'd be more expensive. If Mount is the preferred option then we'd just pay a bit more to get that signing done
Caicedo is quite simply not an 8. He is an enforcer, not a goal-getting creator. Not a big Mount fan but at his best he gets goals and assists. Caicedo doesn't. Look at their profiles closely they are two very very different players. It is comparing apples with pears.
You don’t know much about the player, he played as an 8 when Bissouma was there the previous season and was a goal threat.
He can operate in both positions and his best position is probably box to box as an 8
I wouldn't. Mount is massively overrated. £40m is about right but even then there has to better options. Chelsea's valuation of him is way OTT
Look at the numbers.
He played as an 8 for Brighton last year, he’s basically a better, more consistent version of Fred, that can play as a lone 6 as well. Mount is more of a 10 than an 8, Caicedo is more of a 6 than an 8, both players can play as an 8 with different purposes. We have players like Amad and Mainoo that have the capability to play as a creative 8/10 like Mount, having Casemiro and/or Caicedo behind them will help unlock our attack and protect the defence incredibly well.
Watch football
Happens every year. We don't seem to have much by way of planning. Other clubs tee up their transfers in advance. They are negotiating all the time in advance of transfer windows.
Few points on the Mount vs Caicedo debate...
1) Caicedo is currently the more fashionable, 'in-vogue' footballer.
2) Mount has achieved far more in his career, both domestically and internationally. He has won major trophies, including the Champions League.
3) Mount has represented a club and a national team playing at the highest level, competing for the biggest trophies, with high aspirations
4) Caicedo has largely played for 'underdogs' in Ecuador and Brighton.
5) United had the opportunity to sign Caicedo (or at least, it was widely reported that we did) for £3.5m two years ago. We decided not to sign him.
6) Caicedo has been deployed at RB at times this season for Brighton. It strikes me as odd that they would deploy a player some believe to be a world class CM at RB. It can happen, but it seems strange to me.
7) It strikes me that both are 'good' players in their own right, but that both can be 'excellent players', when given a specific role within a well-organised team.
8) It remains to be see how Caicedo can transition from playing a specific role in a side with midtable aspirations to playing a role in a side challenging for trophies, a scenario in which he'll face more low-blocks and middle blocks, and will need to be able to play incisive, progressive passes.
9) We should have fewer doubts about Mount's ability to perform his specific role at the highest level - because he already has.
10) Overall, despite Caicedo being more fashionable, I think Mount is clearly the safer option. Yes, we know that Mount isn't a world beating superstar, but we know he is a very effective cog in a good machine. There's some probability Caicedo could have a higher ceiling, but a somewhat larger probability he struggles and/or fades into relative mediocrity at a bigger club.
1) Caicedo is currently the more fashionable, 'in-vogue' footballer.
2) Mount has achieved far more in his career, both domestically and internationally. He has won major trophies, including the Champions League.
3) Mount has represented a club and a national team playing at the highest level, competing for the biggest trophies, with high aspirations
4) Caicedo has largely played for 'underdogs' in Ecuador and Brighton.
5) United had the opportunity to sign Caicedo (or at least, it was widely reported that we did) for £3.5m two years ago. We decided not to sign him.
6) Caicedo has been deployed at RB at times this season for Brighton. It strikes me as odd that they would deploy a player some believe to be a world class CM at RB. It can happen, but it seems strange to me.
7) It strikes me that both are 'good' players in their own right, but that both can be 'excellent players', when given a specific role within a well-organised team.
8) It remains to be see how Caicedo can transition from playing a specific role in a side with midtable aspirations to playing a role in a side challenging for trophies, a scenario in which he'll face more low-blocks and middle blocks, and will need to be able to play incisive, progressive passes.
9) We should have fewer doubts about Mount's ability to perform his specific role at the highest level - because he already has.
10) Overall, despite Caicedo being more fashionable, I think Mount is clearly the safer option. Yes, we know that Mount isn't a world beating superstar, but we know he is a very effective cog in a good machine. There's some probability Caicedo could have a higher ceiling, but a somewhat larger probability he struggles and/or fades into relative mediocrity at a bigger club.
I like Caicedo but he signed a new contract in Jan this year, not sure what that entails but I have a feeling BHA won't accept anything below 100 mor anything that doesn't have the potential to be a 100m
Casemiro can’t play every game…that would be my reasoning for buying Caicedo. But is it wise for United to spend that much on him.
Maybe Casemiro can play more expansive/higher…if Caicedo took the more DM role.
But I’m not convinced he is the right fit, even if he is very talented.
Maybe Casemiro can play more expansive/higher…if Caicedo took the more DM role.
But I’m not convinced he is the right fit, even if he is very talented.
We need a long term Casemiro replacement almost as much as we need a vertical passer/ball carrier like mount and eriksen
You mentioned 4-2-3-1 being a worthy solution to our away game dilemma last season, wouldn’t you prefer to see Caicedo as the second CM in those type of games, given Fred and McTominay are leaving?
Except there’s zero evidence to suggest we are only working on one player.
Whether we get Mount or not, I think Caicedo would be a fantastic buy for us. He could be the new Keano. He has a great engine and covers a lot of ground in games, breaks up play and always goes forward with his runs and passes.
Caicedo is far more talented on the ball than Casemiro. I've watched him loads. He's not a basic enforcer. His range of passing and first touch is excellent. I'd like to see him do it more, but I have seen him occasionally make some very good forward runs with the ball also, so this is something he's capable of developing imo. Mount isn't a natural 8 at all imo, whereas Caicedo definitely is, while also being able to cover for Cas if he gets injured or suspended. I'm starting to suspect the reason we were going for Mount is that we didn't think we could afford the £80m for Caicedo this season and ETH was willing to try Mount a bit higher up after Bruno showed he can play a deeper cm role really well this season.
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