Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea

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After Harvertz and Kovacic deal are officially done, his transfer to chelsea will probably be official too. He is going there to replace Kante.
 
pcaming said:
I can’t shake the feeling he isn’t the player we need.
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We're one injury (or run of suspensions) to Casemiro away from the Groundhog Day of the last few seasons. Not only does Caicedo cover that eventuality, he also slots into midfield alongside the Brazilian; he also affords the flexibility to approach different opponents with varying applications, be that pressing, sitting, stifling - it's a veritable mix of eclectic optioning and something we sorely lack as a collective with our single point failure before being reduced to McFred, yet again.

One might argue that a deep-lying playmaker and elite ball-carrier, such as FDJ is the optimal player, but they barely exist and ideally, we'd have both a Caciedo and a player of that ilk ably rotating in and out of the team ala Madrid or City.

Fact is, we have gaping holes in midfield and need two bodies there not one. Caicedo would kill multiple birds with one stone, and we need that profile of multifunctional player desperately.

The other issue is that Caicedo would preserve Casemiro's legs and potentially eke more time at the pinnacle for the Brazilian via us not overplaying and fatiguing him. No other player profile benefits Casemiro in that way (grafting and running for him/the team) even if the deep playmaker type assuages a different set of issues and has the ball do more of the work... think of these types together as a dual engine; over a full campaign they have the potential to be huge assets for one another both in terms of fielding at the same time as well as in rotation.
 
I still want him because his versatility means if we signed a #9 and a keeper we wouldn't have any glaring holes anymore, whether he's playing as a #8, filling in for Casemiro or playing as an RB tucked in to pair with Casemiro in more of a WM.

He'd replace (and upgrade) Fred and McTominay in one fell swoop and allow us to play a WM. That's pretty good, and I think we could find another attacking #8/10 cheaper than Mount to backup Eriksen, there's just more of those guys than top quality deep midfielders.
 
Fortitude said:
We're one injury (or run of suspensions) to Casemiro away from the Groundhog Day of the last few seasons. Not only does Caicedo cover that eventuality, he also slots into midfield alongside the Brazilian; he also affords the flexibility to approach different opponents with varying applications, be that pressing, sitting, stifling - it's a veritable mix of eclectic optioning and something we sorely lack as a collective with our single point failure before being reduced to McFred, yet again.

One might argue that a deep-lying playmaker and elite ball-carrier, such as FDJ is the optimal player, but they barely exist and ideally, we'd have both a Caciedo and a player of that ilk ably rotating in and out of the team ala Madrid or City.

Fact is, we have gaping holes in midfield and need two bodies there not one. Caicedo would kill multiple birds with one stone, and we need that profile of multifunctional player desperately.

The other issue is that Caicedo would preserve Casemiro's legs and potentially eke more time at the pinnacle for the Brazilian via us not overplaying and fatiguing him. No other player profile benefits Casemiro in that way (grafting and running for him/the team) even if the deep playmaker type assuages a different set of issues and has the ball do more of the work... think of these types together as a dual engine; over a full campaign they have the potential to be huge assets for one another both in terms of fielding at the same time as well as in rotation.
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From where the ball progression is coming from Caicedo is just about ok while Bruno is fairly limited as well . We are a team which is severely lacking in creativity we don't actually create good chances and by adding another player in the middle who hardly excel in that department while also having Having Rashford and Antony as regulars in front three who aren't exactly beacon of creatively doesn't quite fill me with confidence for next season .
 
We could do with both Caicedo and Mount surely, if we are serious about being contenders. Regarding the notion of Caicedo and Casemiro pairing being too defensive, both are/can be box to box players right? Unless there is another available deep lying progressor (apart from FDJ) we can get, or if we are set on playing a counter pressing 4-3-3 style which makes Caicedo not a primary target (only as replacement for Casemiro)
 
Tarrou said:
it’s too defensive surely
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I personally dont think so as both Caicedo and Casemiro have goals in their locker.

Another thing to consider is how Moises would help us break the press in the first phase of our build up play which would help us create more chances and we'd lose the ball higher up the pitch.

When we do lose the ball having a player like Moises would also allow us to more effectively press higher up the pitch as he's an absolute space eating tackling monster.

One other idea that I could see us implementing with Moises in games we'd expect the opposition to sit deep against us is playing Caicedo as an inverted right back allowing us to play more creative players higher up the pitch. Atlantis football had a YouTube video talking about this option, and de Zerbi used Moises in this role at the end of the season.
 
ManRed said:
This deal makes no sense atm as his skill sets are entirely different to mount. But getting him this summer sorts our DCM position for a good few years. Doubt Chelsea will not do a deal for Mount with Bayern or another club at a lower price if we do move on.

If we do go buy Caicedo then we should prioritize a top striker as our creativity will take a big hit with Caicedo-Casemiro in midfield
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Yeah would be the ideal partner for Casa particularly in the big games,however have concerns about the creativity thing
 
Moises Caicedo is the direct replacement for Kante. With both Jorginho and Kovacic gone, I don't think Chelsea can afford not getting him.

He is much more important to them than to us. They play a double pivot formation more consistently than any other top English team.

Do we really want to go to a bidding war with Chelsea over Caicedo? Will we win the bidding war? If we win the bidding war, we strengthen ourselves significantly and avoid a direct rival from improving, particularly if they're stuck with a sulking Mount (albeit in a slightly different position).
 
croadyman said:
Yeah would be the ideal partner for Casa particularly in the big games,however have concerns about the creativity thing
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No he won't unless we have already decided that we will continue to play like plucky underdogs against any half decent team . This would be Ten Hag's second season we should be evolving to become a team which would always take game to the opposition rather than ceding initiative . No more of this Underdog shit .

Caicedo should be brought in as long term Casemiro's replacement but not as his partner .
 
I am pretty sure that when this young man first came to attention it was mentioned that he was a big Manchester United fan and that may have been because of Antonio playing for us so I would imagine if we had any serious interest in him it would have come to the fore by now.
There has always been this thing about having to get Chmps League football as that is where all the top players want to play and it is what we have over Chelsea so it would be interesting to see if that has any sway in the matter.
It is a bit concerning that we are talking about having to get cover for Casemiro whom we spent 70mil on only last season and he is on a long contract but I cannot say I am surprised.
 
Rozay said:
Caicedo over Mount for me. The new Kanté. A Casemiro/Caicedo double-pivot would be a brilliant foundation for a team to go forward from.
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Really good for either Mount or Caisedo. I think we just play a bit different with Mount, we could have him as box to box for D, pivot with Case to roaming inside or the edge of the box with Brno. With Caisedo, i think we could play much more attacking wise as we could just let Case and Caisedo to sit in the middle and sweep all the problems and try to suffocate teams more.
 
Moises caicedo already chelsea bound in my opinion. We have good relationship with Brighton and Brighton have vested interest in some of our talented youngsters.

If you still want him you will have to pay more than 100 mn to Brighton. If so good luck with that. We have to move to next target then.
 
Caicedo is THE player we need. How many times last season did our midfield get run over? Casemiro can't do it alone and his fatigue was evident during the last leg of the season. We have to get players in who can last the entire 90 mins at the same level of quality. Shame we didn't go for MacAllister. This is one we should not miss at all.
 
If it's between caicedo and mount. I hope we pick caicedo, he adds to the defensive side of the midfield something we are really missing outside of casemiro. Mount will still be there come Jan given Chelsea seem to have stopped paying the big boy wages under the new regime.
 
The thing with Casemiro is he is the wrong side of 30 and with his build will slow down a lot and he isnt adverse to getting a red card. We then struggle a lot without him, more so than any other player I think. Caicedo would be an excellent buy, if we wasnt after a CF, then we should go all in for him. Have we got the budget for an £80 mill+ DM and a top CF. Its not looking likely at this stage.
 
If we buy Caicedo, we'll continue playing 4231 next season. If it's Mount, we'll move to a 433/WM formation.

Given the fact we've played 4231 ever since LvG, I really want to see us try something new.

Even though I'm in favour of moving on from the Mount saga, a part of me hopes we don't. Though I agree with the above points about Caicedo being a top player in his own right.
 
Rajiztar said:
Moises caicedo already chelsea bound in my opinion. We have good relationship with Brighton and Brighton have vested interest in some of our talented youngsters.

If you still want him you will have to pay more than 100 mn to Brighton. If so good luck with that. We have to move to next target then.
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Didn't you take their entire backroom team last season? Thought they were pretty pissed off about that
 
thomas porter said:
I personally dont think so as both Caicedo and Casemiro have goals in their locker.

Another thing to consider is how Moises would help us break the press in the first phase of our build up play which would help us create more chances and we'd lose the ball higher up the pitch.

When we do lose the ball having a player like Moises would also allow us to more effectively press higher up the pitch as he's an absolute space eating tackling monster.

One other idea that I could see us implementing with Moises in games we'd expect the opposition to sit deep against us is playing Caicedo as an inverted right back allowing us to play more creative players higher up the pitch. Atlantis football had a YouTube video talking about this option, and de Zerbi used Moises in this role at the end of the season.
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id rather a passing specialist in one of those places

they are both good passers, but not excellent

if we want to control games we need that

away against tough opponents, I’d love to have those two in there for security for sure
 
Devil You Know said:
If we buy Caicedo, we'll continue playing 4231 next season. If it's Mount, we'll move to a 433/WM formation.

Given the fact we've played 4231 ever since LvG, I really want to see us try something new.

Even though I'm in favour of moving on from the Mount saga, a part of me hopes we don't. Though I agree with the above points about Caicedo being a top player in his own right.
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I don't believe formations are the issue here , but attributes of the players utilised is if Caicedo is bought in then we won't even have a single ball carrier through the middle Be it Bruno, Casemiro or Caicedo they all are mediocre in that department .

While Mount isn't ideal but atleast he has the attributes even if we stick to 4231 he can be moulded and developed into somebody who could be comfortable in the deeper areas while having enough about him to get up the pitch on his own . Maybe Caicedo could be somebody who has these qualities as well and just hasn't be utilising them enough who knows .
 
caid said:
Didn't you take their entire backroom team last season? Thought they were pretty pissed off about that
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I don't think they pissed off. We paid considerable amount for them. For them we are golden goose as I said earlier in this thread. We have pretty good relationship. Bloom guy from brighton have close relationship with boehly and Chelsea technical director winstanley.

The fact that arsenal moved away from caicedo pursuit says something that he is already Chelsea bound in my humble opinion. Romano also pinned caicedo to Chelsea tweet in his timeline says it's happening if not done.
 
Rajiztar said:
I don't think they pissed off. We paid considerable amount for them. For them we are golden goose as I said earlier in this thread. We have pretty good relationship. Bloom guy from brighton have close relationship with boehly and Chelsea technical director winstanley.

The fact that arsenal moved away from caicedo pursuit says something that he is already Chelsea bound in my humble opinion. Romano also pinned caicedo to Chelsea tweet in his timeline says it's happening if not done.
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Seems that way but I don’t believe Caicedo picks Chelsea over United if we can agree a deal for obvious reasons.

The same for Arsenal, they are just using their funds for Rice instead. The only reason Chelsea are winning this race is because there the only ones in it.
 
James35 said:
Yeah let’s go for Caicedo and offer three amounts that get turned down by BHA before we walk away…

We are perennial over payers and borderline mugs so can’t blame these teams for taking the piss.
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But you also have to give the club credit for trying to change that by putting our foot down with Mount. Even if it's a negotiation tactic, it's the right one. You can't have it both ways; if you criticise the admittedly poor dealings in the past, you have to give credence to attempts to remedy the problem.
 
Tarrou said:
makes more sense that we leaked that info to get Chelsea to fold than actually changing targets

they couldn't be more different in style
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I was a bit skeptical when I first saw the link but as somebody pointed out to me in the Mount thread, we spent the entirety of last summer chasing De Jong before settling on Casemiro. It would be an unusual way to operate but it isn't impossible.
 
Mcking said:
Casemiro has proven to be a huge attacking threat, and Caicedo is very good on the ball. Don't see how it's too defensive in terms of build up or attacking threat.
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Where is the ball progression coming from ?
 
Mcking said:
Casemiro has proven to be a huge attacking threat, and Caicedo is very good on the ball. Don't see how it's too defensive in terms of build up or attacking threat.
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Yep, it also enables us to be more aggressive with the full-backs and push Fernandes higher. I honestly think it's a far more logical tactical fit.
 
TheLord said:
Moises Caicedo is the direct replacement for Kante. With both Jorginho and Kovacic gone, I don't think Chelsea can afford not getting him.

He is much more important to them than to us. They play a double pivot formation more consistently than any other top English team.

Do we really want to go to a bidding war with Chelsea over Caicedo? Will we win the bidding war? If we win the bidding war, we strengthen ourselves significantly and avoid a direct rival from improving, particularly if they're stuck with a sulking Mount (albeit in a slightly different position).
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I don't see a massive downside actually. Worst case scenario we lose the bidding war after pushing Chelsea to pay significantly over the odds, which may actually help us get Mount over the line as they'll need money. Best-case, we beat Chelsea to the punch for a player they really want and sign our long-term Casemiro replacement ahead of schedule. Even if it means we have less money available for a striker, the chances of us signing the one we want is low this year, and we may be better off playing Rashford there/rotating him with a stop-gap for 12 months, at which point we'll have the choice between Kane on a free, Toney for a cut-price, or someone else who becomes available.
 
I dont think its so weird for us to be switching from mount to caicedo. If your looking for a Wijnaldum like player either could do the job in one manner or another. We have a lot of freedom in terms of midfield targets really. The only ones you'd really want to be here in 3 years time are Casemiro and Bruno and you'd probably be looking to phase them out at that point. I think you'd want 5 options in midfield with Bruno and Casemiro filling the extremes. So we could bounce from Mount to Caicedo to De Jong and all would be welcome and helpful.
I think there were mentions of physicality being sought so the playmaker is probably on ice for a year +
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I just love the defensive solidity we would have with a Caceimiro double pivot
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Absolutely.

It would then give our FBs more freedom to double up with the wingers against opposing FBs as well as allowing Bruno & our next ST the opportunities to stay forward and push defensive lines.
 
Mr Smith said:
But you also have to give the club credit for trying to change that by putting our foot down with Mount. Even if it's a negotiation tactic, it's the right one. You can't have it both ways; if you criticise the admittedly poor dealings in the past, you have to give credence to attempts to remedy the problem.
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Yeah that will be all well and good if and when we actually buy a player we need for a reasonable fee. Then I will give the club full credit. Remedying the obvious problems on the pitch still takes precedent and not keeping players clearly not good enough because we can’t get our ideal targets within budget. Still time though…
 
gajender said:
Who exactly is creating anything barring Bruno in that team and should we completely abandon ball progression through the middle .
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I see your point but Brighton doesn't struggle to progress the ball from the middle. They don't exactly have any great ball carriers in their midfield.
 
Tarrou said:
it’s too defensive surely
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In most games, I agree. But the players will keep playing more games. There is a new CL-format from 24/25 and talk of a new club world cup.

This season Man Utd played 62 games. That is 5580 min. Lets say that is our aim every season and due to new format min 5000 is likely. We have three midfielders inc Bruno. That imply they will share somewhere in the range of 15 000 and 16 500 min.

In other words, a midfield of Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Caicedo and Mount would play in the range 3000 and 3300 min of club football assuming it was shared equally. Inc international football that is approx 4 000 min or 44 games. About a game week ex holiday.

Add that Eriksen (and soon Case) will need to play fewer games, and that both Caicedo, Bruno and Mount are quite flexible, and I think that setup makes sense.
 
Mcking said:
Casemiro has proven to be a huge attacking threat, and Caicedo is very good on the ball. Don't see how it's too defensive in terms of build up or attacking threat.
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very good is stretching it for me

I want a better passer/conductor in that role, a specialist
 
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