Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
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He always says really nice things about us, then they spank us. In fairness, we did outplay at the Etihad and the stats do back up what he says.
It’s a different story if we actually win - he is not so nice post game!
Incredible.
Worth every penny, the value lies in young, guaranteed quality and he sure has it. The alternative is paying 30-40 million for a back up DM, then we’ll have to reinvest in a Casemiro replacement in a few years anyway. We’ll be hitting 3 birds with 1 stone getting him in.
He's so good. We might have to buy him just to stop a rival from getting him.
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80 mil probs, it’s a lot of money but hopefully our outgoings will cover some of the damage.
I think Caicedo and Rabiot on a free then promoting Mejbri is definitely the way to go this summer, we could offset a large chunk of the Caicedo fee by moving McTominay and VDB both on whilst upgrading on both at the same time.
Nobody is going to buy VDB straight off the back of a bad injury. My guess is he will go on loan to get his fitness back
I think this is where I'm at with it.
We absolutely need this lad in midfield, watching him boss Enzo Fernandez yesterday said it all for me.
Would be a revelation in our midfield and a worthy long term successor to our Brazilian destroyer
Would be a revelation in our midfield and a worthy long term successor to our Brazilian destroyer
There seems to be a lot of smoke around us buying someone from Brighton at the moment, whether it be Mac Allister, Ferguson or Caicedo. Maybe there’s something in it and the press are guessing who it will be.
Weren’t we really close to signing him a few years ago? Like Ecuadorian press saying it was done and how he was a huge United fan? What happened? I remember it being a very strange set of events.
Weren’t we really close to signing him a few years ago? Like Ecuadorian press saying it was done and how he was a huge United fan? What happened? I remember it being a very strange set of events.
Isn't him and Casemiro a little too defensive in the short term though? Because if you spend 80m on him (which is his price) he"s going to play every week
The thing about him that's been a revelation for me this season is that he's a metronome in possession. He's shown that he has the skills to play as a ball winning 8 who can be the first receiver in the build up for Brighton under De Zerbi. He's also shown quite the press resistance.
All of that complements his already excellent defensive work and physicality.
He absolutely could step in for Case but ges convinced me that he could work well besides him as well which I didn't think was the case before this season.
He would be a massive upgrade on McTominay and his versatility at 21 years old would honestly be worth the fee.
He's really shown that he's got a bit of everything in his locker with everything he's been asked to do since Potter left.
He will play next to Casemiro and he can
He's great at attacking and defending. I remember when we were first linked when he was still in South America; Tim Vickery said that he was a mixture of Pogba and Kante.
Vickery tends to overhype a lot of South American youngsters but he was definitely right about this one.
Yeah will sting him joining Arsenal/scousers
Yeah it was a complex deal because he had some kind of third party ownership,however Brighton had dealt with a similar situation before and used it to their advantage
I'd be more than happy for us to bring in Caicedo and move on McTominay & Fred.
He can fufil both their roles in the squad.
He can fufil both their roles in the squad.
No one will agree with this because he is the shiny toy everyone wants. It's like the spurs midfield with bentacur/bissouma and Hojbjerg. You end up relying on the front line to do all the creating. We have a tight budget this summer Casemiro's longterm replacement can come the following year.
His role on the pitch is the opposite of a 'shiny toy'
McTominay, Fred, and VDB out, Caicedo and Hannibal in. Saying that I'd probably keep Fred around as a squaddie.
Might be a bit too conservative and inflexible, to be fair; a defensive midfielder and a midfielder who does his best work in transitions — would pack an almighty punch from a destructive standpoint and nip a lot of opposition moves in the bud (especially counter-attacks), but leave us wanting in the creative and tempo-dictating departments (which is the fundamental, irreconcilable issue for a lot of us). Ideally, we would employ two proactive and complementary playmakers (or interiors, with one of them being an exceptional ball-progressor who can receive possession in tight spots and weave through traffic to dovetail with the attack) through the half and middle spaces in front of Casemiro. Some of the best, most dominant and most successful midfield units of the contemporary period have been constructed with that kind of blueprint (ranging from textbook ones like Kroos (controller and passing coordinator)—Casemiro (defensive midfielder)—Modrić (needle player) at Madrid and Xavi (controller and passing coordinator)—Busquets (holding midfielder)—Iniesta (needle player) at Barcelona to Gündogan/Silva—Rodri—De Bruyne at City), so we don't even need to reinvent the wheel (just target the right profile).
P.S. If we had an elite deep-lying playmaker at #6, Caicedo should have been atop the club's “most wanted list” — he's among the prototypical midfielders for that template in a midfield trio (where you need someone who will endlessly annoy the opposition and disrupt their rhythm, while keeping things simple in possession and feeding/safe-guarding the principal architect (as well as the mezzala on the opposite flank, to a lesser degree). Also a good theoretical partner for a certain Frenkie de Jong in a double pivot, for what it's worth.
That's correct, he was being hailed as a big midfield prospect as a #8, who was showing potential to develop into a well rounded midfielder who was defensively and offensively very capable as a teenager. The vid below from his time at Independiente provides some evidence of his all round play.
But the remarkable thing about Caicedo is that since De Zerbi joined Brighton, he's slightly altered Caicedo's position, where he's now playing as a #6 who is expected to bait pressure and receive the ball under pressure with a view to provoking the opponent to close down the space. And the aim is to bait the press via the GK, CBs and deeper midfielders to create space for the likes of Mac Allister who then progress the play. But the role the likes of Caicedo play in the first phase, whilst passing and receiving the ball under pressure, is what allows Brighton to be as dominant as they're. This has to be noted and understood. Brighton's first phase players (Gk, fullbacks, CBs, double pivot) are stronger than United's first phase players collectively. But imo, United's attacking players are better than Brighton's attacking players collectively. But their (Brighton) attack has a stronger foundation behind them due to their first phase players being superior against the press collectively, which creates conditions for a more compact team who not only play in a high defensive line but also press and counter press more effectively.
There's more in his locker but the role he's playing under De Zerbi is one where he has to exhibit a very high technical level under pressure whilst maintaining a high level of positional discipline both in possession and against the ball, defending large spaces which will open up transitional opportunities for the opponent due to the number of players Brighton commit forward in attack. And the statistics are only pointing to how he's being utilised by De Zerbi and not what else he's capable of doing if utilised a little higher up the pitch.
Below is a good write up on how De Zerbi sets his team up and what is expected of the players in the build up phase. And it's those players in the build up phase which carry the team and provide the platform for their forwards to thrive. From the keeper, CBs fullbacks and midfielders they exert control on the game and players like Caicedo are a big part of how they exert control which creates the conditions for the team as a whole to become a proactive attacking team from back to front, even against teams who aggressively press them.
From the article above: "Brighton registers the fourth highest xG from open play (38,16 xG), the second highest amount of passes per sequence (4,11 passes) as well as the third most build-up attacks (111 attacks) and the third longest sequence time (11,04s) in the Premier League (via TheAnalyst). Moreover, Brighton has 59,77% possession on average and 64,61% field tilt (both 3rd highest numbers in the league) according to markstats."
I don't believe our build up issues are anything to do with the likes of Casemiro, Eriksen or Bruno against teams who are adept at presing high. But rather our weak structure within the collective unit in the first phase is what weakens our midfield who are then effected by the players around them, and we then by default resort to playing a transitional game.
I think we need two midfielders to come in to raise our level in midfield. I hope one is Caicedo and the other being a more creative deep roaming playmaker which will open up the opportunity to play a well balanced 3 man midfield against teams who are good at defending high up the pitch against us.
I really hope the club is sold soon and we bring in a goalkeeper, RB, two mids and a striker. Maybe even a technically strong RCB who is good at passing the ball under pressure. But maybe that's asking for too much. But if we did something like the above, then I feel we will challenge for the league. But it all depends on the Glazers selling the club imo.
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United fan
Get him in
Get him in
Bang on. Really hope he doesn’t go Arsenal, but so would imagine if we’re interested and in the top 4, we’ll be in prime position to get him ahead of Arsenal.
Out of interest, who do you see as potential options for that other midfield signing you mention?
Quality post
Why didn’t my post get the plaudits
It's absolutely nothing like that because Spurs play with 5 at the back instead of a number 10, they're also not that bad at creating when Bentancur plays. Trying to compare a midfield of Bisouma/Skipp (or even Bentancur when fit) and Hojbjerg to a midfield of Caicedo, Bruno and Casemiro in terms of Creativity is laughable.
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Pretending that Caicedo is what we need right now is what's laughable actually. Show me 1 team that plays like you want us to. There is a reason why Man city, Liverpool at their best, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich don't play play 2 defensive midfielders when everyone is fit.
Great post, thanks for putting it together.
Such a shame we didn't manage to go through back then when he seemed available. Would have been a cheap punt and wouldn't have hurt nobody because we didn't have anything like a defensive midfielder in the squad since ages. Had Caicedo turned out half as capable as he does today, it would still have been a good deal.
From a players standpoint, he'd be my main priority target. The price will be a killer though.
So what do we need then?
So we don’t need a midfielder to fill in for Casemiro when he’s unavailable? You must be forgetting how worse off we are without a player of his quality in that position. Plus our team has crumbled at times this season when the task was too much for Casemiro to take on on his own, having a player as good as Caicedo to partner him against the best opposition would be a game changer. We’ve seen a good glimpse of it with Casemiro and Fred as a partnership against the likes of Barcelona. We need a top DLP but for now I think having Eriksen, Bruno, Mainoo along with Iqbal and Mejbri will do us fine until next summer.
Also Liverpool used Fabinho, Milner and Henderson in their prime… Having Arnold and Robertson played a big part, I’m sure Shaw and Dalot (or even an improved RB if we get new owners) can have a similar impact.
Lastly, Casemiro and Caicedo aren’t just any old defensive midfielders, they’re probably two of the most all rounded midfielders on the planet, they can ping passes, do the dirty work and go on the offensive as well, it’s not like it will limit us as long as the balance is right around them.
Yeah very good point
I think he be brilliant to sign. Wouldn’t mind giving Brighton biggish money taking him mcallister and Ferguson. Let Ferguson stay on loan
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