Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea

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Lash said:
Anyway, I'm sure it won't truly break down relationships, unless it was conducted really poorly from Arsenal's side. Which I don't believe you would have.
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It sounds like it has, Andy Naylor from the Athletic (the only really reliable journalist for Brighton) is reporting that Arsenal acted poorly.

After the first bid of 60 million we turned down, Brighton were very clear that this was not a negotiating position, we would not sell.

Then Caicedo put his stuff out on IG and Arsenal got in touch again. They were told not to bid as we would not sell for any price. We then sent Caicedo away from training so his agents couldn’t report he’d missed it to try and force the transfer.

Arsenal then publicly made another bid, they knew we wouldn’t sell, it was absolutely clear and all it did was create more difficulties between the player, agents and club.

https://theathletic.com/4138180/202...-transfer-pursuit/?source=user_shared_article

Arsenal were informed on Saturday, in no uncertain terms, to back off. They did not heed that advice, so were given the same, unequivocal message again the following day.

Brighton shut communication off with everybody from that point. A second bid from Arsenal on Sunday evening — £65million plus £5million in add-ons — was regarded at the Amex as an irrelevance.

The Caicedo saga has soured Brighton’s respect for the north London club after the cordial negotiations between them over the sales of White and Trossard, weakening Arsenal’s position in terms of any future interest in more of Brighton’s star players.
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The Boy said:
It sounds like it has, Andy Naylor from the Athletic (the only really reliable journalist for Brighton) is reporting that Arsenal acted poorly.

After the first bid of 60 million we turned down, Brighton were very clear that this was not a negotiating position, we would not sell.

Then Caicedo put his stuff out on IG and Arsenal got in touch again. They were told not to bid as we would not sell for any price. We then sent Caicedo away from training so his agents couldn’t report he’d missed it to try and force the transfer.

Arsenal then publicly made another bid, they knew we wouldn’t sell, it was absolutely clear and all it did was create more difficulties between the player, agents and club.

https://theathletic.com/4138180/202...-transfer-pursuit/?source=user_shared_article
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I stand corrected then, I thought it might be more from the agent side, but looks like Arsenal acted on that bad advice from them. Shades of VVD and Liverpool, so can't imagine you'll drop the price in the summer for them either.
 
Lash said:
I stand corrected then, I thought it might be more from the agent side, but looks like Arsenal acted on that bad advice from them. Shades of VVD and Liverpool, so can't imagine you'll drop the price in the summer for them either.
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I don't know why Arsenal is considered "acted poorly" with a 2nd bid with improved terms.
 
The Boy said:
It sounds like it has, Andy Naylor from the Athletic (the only really reliable journalist for Brighton) is reporting that Arsenal acted poorly.

After the first bid of 60 million we turned down, Brighton were very clear that this was not a negotiating position, we would not sell.

Then Caicedo put his stuff out on IG and Arsenal got in touch again. They were told not to bid as we would not sell for any price. We then sent Caicedo away from training so his agents couldn’t report he’d missed it to try and force the transfer.

Arsenal then publicly made another bid, they knew we wouldn’t sell, it was absolutely clear and all it did was create more difficulties between the player, agents and club.

https://theathletic.com/4138180/202...-transfer-pursuit/?source=user_shared_article
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I bet it just adds a bit to the transfer fee, like we had to with Antony when Ajax were sick of us taking their stuff. An extra 5-10 million to admit they were in the wrong and make good in the summer.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I don't know why Arsenal is considered "acted poorly" with a 2nd bid with improved terms.
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They didn’t act poorly. It’s also highly unlikely that Arsenal made it public. It’s not in their interest to do so. Why would Arsenal want everyone to know about their bids if there’s a good chance they’ll end up empty handed?

Selling clubs are incentivised to brief journalists about deals as it usually pushes up the price by luring other clubs into a bidding war. It also makes the club look good to its own fans.

Arsenal bid twice. Brighton rejected both bids. That’s the entirety of the story.
 
Daydreamer said:
They didn’t act poorly. It’s also highly unlikely that Arsenal made it public. It’s not in their interest to do so. Why would Arsenal want everyone to know about their bids if there’s a good chance they’ll end up empty handed?

Selling clubs are incentivised to brief journalists about deals as it usually pushes up the price by luring other clubs into a bidding war. It also makes the club look good to its own fans.

Arsenal bid twice. Brighton rejected both bids. That’s the entirety of the story.
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It doesn't matter for Arsenal anymore. Arteta got the cover for Partey and there is enough body for that position. Elney will come back eventually.
 
Daydreamer said:
They didn’t act poorly. It’s also highly unlikely that Arsenal made it public. It’s not in their interest to do so. Why would Arsenal want everyone to know about their bids if there’s a good chance they’ll end up empty handed?

Selling clubs are incentivised to brief journalists about deals as it usually pushes up the price by luring other clubs into a bidding war. It also makes the club look good to its own fans.

Arsenal bid twice. Brighton rejected both bids. That’s the entirety of the story.
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Apart from the fact that Arsenal were told we would not sell for any price and all they were doing was unsettling a player who would not be allowed to leave. Yet they bid again - why do it? Brighton could not have been clearer.
 
GoonerGirly said:
Ultimately I think this is why we walked away, and we apparently didn't want to burn our bridges with Brighton.

We only went hard on Caceido (and Mudryk) because of our league position. If we were slugging it out for top 4 as usual I'm not sure we'd have been ready to spend like this.
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:confused:
 
Daydreamer said:
They didn’t act poorly. It’s also highly unlikely that Arsenal made it public. It’s not in their interest to do so. Why would Arsenal want everyone to know about their bids if there’s a good chance they’ll end up empty handed?

Selling clubs are incentivised to brief journalists about deals as it usually pushes up the price by luring other clubs into a bidding war. It also makes the club look good to its own fans.

Arsenal bid twice. Brighton rejected both bids. That’s the entirety of the story.
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I mean it's just negotiations. Don't see where emotions /hurt feelings come into it. I highly doubt the clubs/agents care abt hurt feelings. Just the fans get played.
 
The Boy said:
Apart from the fact that Arsenal were told we would not sell for any price and all they were doing was unsettling a player who would not be allowed to leave. Yet they bid again - why do it? Brighton could not have been clearer.
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Fair enough, I'm not on the wind up. But was he actually not for sale at any price? If we'd bid £200m, to pluck a number out of the air, Brighton would have accepted. There was a number. Arsenal thought that number may have been around £70m - they were wrong. So Arsenal moved on to an alternative target and Caicedo remains a Brighton player.

It just feels like a storm in a teacup.
 
Daydreamer said:
Fair enough, I'm not on the wind up. But was he actually not for sale at any price? If we'd bid £200m, to pluck a number out of the air, Brighton would have accepted. There was a number. Arsenal thought that number may have been around £70m - they were wrong. So Arsenal moved on to an alternative target and Caicedo remains a Brighton player.

It just feels like a storm in a teacup.
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If you’d bid 200m then fair enough but a 5 million raise in a bid when you’ve been told clearly it’s not going to make any difference and asked clearly not to do it is just unsettling our team.
 
Arsenal will not come back in the summer, neither Chelsea. Caceido form will drop second half season. I can only see one loser.
 
In the end it’s all about money, I don’t think he’s worth more than 50m so a 70m bid for someone who has done nothing in football is more than generous.
in the summer it’ll be all about money again and if we bid 1m more than our rivals “relations have since improved “, but I’m not for bidding this much again for him. I think the bid was this high due to our position in the title race. Rice is a proven top performer for many years in the league and internationally, 80m for him while still high is somewhat understandable.
 
Buxton said:
In the end it’s all about money, I don’t think he’s worth more than 50m so a 70m bid for someone who has done nothing in football is more than generous.
in the summer it’ll be all about money again and if we bid 1m more than our rivals “relations have since improved “, but I’m not for bidding this much again for him. I think the bid was this high due to our position in the title race. Rice is a proven top performer for many years in the league and internationally, 80m for him while still high is somewhat understandable.
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Thank you for your input Mr Kroenke.

I don’t mean to be unkind, but your input on the player’s value is irrelevant. You are a supporter posting on the internet, while the businessmen negotiate the deals are employees of the respective clubs. You have absolutely zero say or control over anything that happens at your football club, in the same way I have none with mine.

I have only witnessed this very strange over-inflating of one’s importance as a regular supporter from one other football fan. A football fan who considered himself one of the players himself, and made some very strange outbursts and amusing quotes. His name was Ty and he was a clown on Arsenal Fan TV.

Hmmm…
 
ESR10 said:
Arsenal will not come back in the summer, neither Chelsea. Caceido form will drop second half season. I can only see one loser.
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Buxton said:
In the end it’s all about money, I don’t think he’s worth more than 50m so a 70m bid for someone who has done nothing in football is more than generous.
in the summer it’ll be all about money again and if we bid 1m more than our rivals “relations have since improved “, but I’m not for bidding this much again for him.
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Quite a few new Arsenal fans suddenly on the caf, I'm enjoying their disappointment.
 
Gazza said:
You wasted no time getting back on the predictions saddle, did ya!
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It was on deadline day for him or never. We don’t need him in the summer. Rice is better and our main target. Sadly for Caceido and his 3000£ a week… once a chance in life.
 
Brighton are acting like they have a rod up their backsides. They are incensed because another PL club had the temerity to bid again when they rejected the first bid.

Yes they are doing a great job running the club and have no incentive to sell in Jan when they can get more in the summer but coming out as this is unprofessional from Arsenal is a stretch.
 
We should sign who Brighton try to replace him with in the summer, would be much cheaper.
 
UTAretro said:
Thank you for your input Mr Kroenke.

I don’t mean to be unkind, but your input on the player’s value is irrelevant. You are a supporter posting on the internet, while the businessmen negotiate the deals are employees of the respective clubs. You have absolutely zero say or control over anything that happens at your football club, in the same way I have none with mine.

I have only witnessed this very strange over-inflating of one’s importance as a regular supporter from one other football fan. A football fan who considered himself one of the players himself, and made some very strange outbursts and amusing quotes. His name was Ty and he was a clown on Arsenal Fan TV.

Hmmm…
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I said I’m not for bidding 70m again. Like it’s my opinion. Not sure what your problem with that is, if I don’t rate your player as highly as you. I’m only expressing my opinion of a player at a midtable club who has achieved nothing. He wouldn’t get in our team, you want me to be happy that we are bidding 70m for a bench player, and further more, you are lecturing me on how I should think.
I know everyone is celebrating plucky little Brighton but you are coming across extremely arrogant and deluded. Let’s see how Caciedo feels about Brighton when we are parading the premier league trophy in may. You can stick that one up your hmmm.
 
Buxton said:
I said I’m not for bidding 70m again. Like it’s my opinion. Not sure what your problem with that is, if I don’t rate your player as highly as you. I’m only expressing my opinion of a player at a midtable club who has achieved nothing. He wouldn’t get in our team, you want me to be happy that we are bidding 70m for a bench player, and further more, you are lecturing me on how I should think.
I know everyone is celebrating plucky little Brighton but you are coming across extremely arrogant and deluded. Let’s see how Caciedo feels about Brighton when we are parading the premier league trophy in may. You can stick that one up your hmmm.
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Bolded part is a beautiful irony.
 
Mindhunter said:
Brighton are acting like they have a rod up their backsides. They are incensed because another PL club had the temerity to bid again when they rejected the first bid.

Yes they are doing a great job running the club and have no incentive to sell in Jan when they can get more in the summer but coming out as this is unprofessional from Arsenal is a stretch.
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Yeah, a player they bought for 5m was subject to bids of 60m+. Compare that to when United made a joint bid for Fellaini (16m) and Baines (12m) of 28m...We bought Fellaini for 15m and Baines for 7.5m and they were arguably our two best players at the time! I don't see the disrespectful argument in this one much. Clubs bluff and haggle all the time. When you're seeing extensive profit on a signing, despite it being late in the window, I struggle to see it being disrespectful if the player has made it known he wants out and it's merely a test of resolve. I'd be more angry and disrespected by Caicedo and his agents than Arsenal.
 
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A 70m bid for a 21 year old with about 30 games under his belt at the top level is “disrespectful “. Everybody seems to have got high on Todd boehly they no longer live in the real world.
 
Great to see Arsenal and Chelsea both have damaged relationships with Brighton badly.

United can slide in and look at Caecido and Mac Allister in the summer :drool:
 
I'm pretty sure if Caicedo goes, it would be more than 70m in the summer. Brighton has a good chance to play in Europe next season, and that would be much more worth it than a few milions more from selling your best player and missed out on Europe
 
reelworld said:
I'm pretty sure if Caicedo goes, it would be more than 70m in the summer. Brighton has a good chance to play in Europe next season, and that would be much more worth it than a few milions more from selling your best player and missed out on Europe
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Yep. Even if he doesn't go for £70M+ (he'll only have two years left on his contract) he is still worth far more to Brighton in helping them finish in their best ever league position.

I completely disagree with the Arsenal fans who are implying that Brighton should, in effect, "know their place". I applaud Brighton for putting themselves in a position where they can refuse offers that could negatively impact the best season in their history. Good for them, they've made the PL more competitive through their presence.

At the same time, I don't believe a £70m offer for a 21 year old with half a seasons PL experience is disrespectful.

And as for the relationship between the clubs being damaged, I'm sure they will be just fine if we make an offer that meets Brighton's valuation in any future negotiations. Also, Brighton are doing so well, that the next transfer deal could be them approaching one of our players.
 
Mindhunter said:
Brighton are acting like they have a rod up their backsides. They are incensed because another PL club had the temerity to bid again when they rejected the first bid.

Yes they are doing a great job running the club and have no incentive to sell in Jan when they can get more in the summer but coming out as this is unprofessional from Arsenal is a stretch.
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Well, in fairness, you guys have been a messy, disjointed version of Barca on the market this window.

Arteta calling Mudryk at home to tap him up every other day and behaving like Xavi was just weird.

When we asked Shaktar for permission to speak to Mudryk late in the process, they STILL had not received that call from anyone at Arsenal apparently.

So it isn’t just the Caicedo deal.

There is a basic way teams should conduct themselves. You can say “what about what you did to Benfica?” But we DID ask all of those things of Benfica. Rui Costa was the only one trying to stonewall. Members of Benficas board were actively requesting us to stay in contact and not give up on that deal, we always got permission to speak, and that refusals to play or train was not the way to help the deal move forward.

In general I had only heard good things about Edu and how Arsenal approached their business; which only made some of the odd behavior this window stand out more.
 
Glad Brighton seem to be upset with Arsenal. We would do very well to throw our name into the mix this summer, would love having him deputise Casemiro.

Him or Amrabat would be a dream for me
 
It's probably not the 70 million bid Brighton found disrespectful, but the continual pursuing of the player despite Arsenal being told they were not interested in negotiating. With clubs operating through intermediaries and getting into the players ear it was probably that type of stuff that was annoying when Brighton had no interest in selling. It appears the line Brighton took wasn't a tactic, it was genuine in this instance.

I mean, I'm not sure Brighton should take it too personally, it's the way football seems to work. They'll probably benefit from a similar thing themselves with other players they want to buy.
 
MUFC OK said:
MODS: the reason you don't discuss ongoing cases in a public forum is because it can prejudice the outcome of that case.

There is now no case ongoing, therefore we are free to discuss. Any legal professional would tell you the same.
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Wrong thread I think, mate.
 
Bluelion7 said:
Well, in fairness, you guys have been a messy, disjointed version of Barca on the market this window.

Arteta calling Mudryk at home to tap him up every other day and behaving like Xavi was just weird.

When we asked Shaktar for permission to speak to Mudryk late in the process, they STILL had not received that call from anyone at Arsenal apparently.

So it isn’t just the Caicedo deal.

There is a basic way teams should conduct themselves. You can say “what about what you did to Benfica?” But we DID ask all of those things of Benfica. Rui Costa was the only one trying to stonewall. Members of Benficas board were actively requesting us to stay in contact and not give up on that deal, we always got permission to speak, and that refusals to play or train was not the way to help the deal move forward.

In general I had only heard good things about Edu and how Arsenal approached their business; which only made some of the odd behavior this window stand out more.
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I wouldn't say any of the clubs are all that different, there are just different financial capabilities and needs involved in each deal.
  • Shaktar sold to Chelsea because Chelsea matched Arsenal's offer but with better terms.
  • Brighton made over £100m in transfer profit so didn't need to sell Caicedo.
In this very window we signed Kiwior out of seemingly nowhere. The two clubs had a "gentleman's agreement" to conduct the deal privately.

Caicado had an incentive to play this out in public as he was agitating for a move. Brighton did too, as it showed their fans that they were taking control of the situation. The only party who had zero incentive for this all to be made public is... Arsenal.
 
Is he really a special talent? Definitely looks good but he’s never looked incredible when I’ve watched Brighton. Rather a great tackler and neat and tidy otherwise. Maybe I need to watch more of him.
 
Daydreamer said:
I wouldn't say any of the clubs are all that different, there are just different financial capabilities and needs involved in each deal.
  • Shaktar sold to Chelsea because Chelsea matched Arsenal's offer but with better terms.
  • Brighton made over £100m in transfer profit so didn't need to sell Caicedo.
In this very window we signed Kiwior out of seemingly nowhere. The two clubs had a "gentleman's agreement" to conduct the deal privately.

Caicado had an incentive to play this out in public as he was agitating for a move. Brighton did too, as it showed their fans that they were taking control of the situation. The only party who had zero incentive for this all to be made public is... Arsenal.
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That’s not what really happened is it. Both sides were pissed with how your team conducted itself in the market. You were publicly outed for it by one of them. The other you want to deflect the blame to the player.

On the flip side of that, both of these clubs have come out recently with high praise of Todd Boehly. None of it involving money by the way (although yes, it probably goes a long way).

I get that you only had X amount of money to spend in the market but you clearly tried some dark art persuasion to get the most for that money. Denying it is like me denying that my club overspent in 2 windows.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Is he really a special talent? Definitely looks good but he’s never looked incredible when I’ve watched Brighton. Rather a great tackler and neat and tidy otherwise. Maybe I need to watch more of him.
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He's a complete midfielder. Reads the game very well, elite physically, brilliant tackler, very good passer and shot on his right foot. He'd be a great addition to any midfield. Would love to have him play for us.
 
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