Agreed it's depressing, but welcome to the passage of time.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Why we almost never manage to sign boyhood United fans (bar Bruno and Ighalo), they all seem to go to City, Liverpool or Chelsea
Brighton are at this level for the first time in their history or for the first time in few decades, so ofcourse you can't expect their players to hit greater heights, I don't think they had any players who were so highly rated and rated as one for the top teams.
Enzo and Caicedo combined for over 200m. Quite a lot of pressure to deliver.
That's true of other clubs and has been for a long time, Harry Kane was an Arsenal fan as a kid as was Gareth Bale Roy Keane a Spurs fan, Kevin De Brunye was a Liverpool, fan, Chelsea legend John Terry was a United fan and Jaime Carragher was an Evertonian
Luke Shaw is a Chelsea fan, and we actually wanted him when you signed him.
To elaborate on my other response, we've currently only have Enzo and Gallagher left from last season's midfield. Gone are RLC, Mount, Kante, Jorginho and Kante. So even if we add Caicedo we probably need another midfielder like Lavia or Veiga, depending on the profile Poch wants. That would give us Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Lavia or Veiga plus Chukwuemeka and Santos, is only 18 but highly rated and will supposedly stay with the first team rather than go on loan. For Poch, I think that's a pretty good midfield to work with.
Gracias senor
That's a huge transition in midfield; good thing Poch is a clean slate. Lot of energy between Caicedo and Enzo; my only question would be how they work offensively.
Because when you're at a smaller club on a relatively small contract, you're not in a position to be calm and let things ride out organically. These players want to secure the bag on a massive contract ASAP, and mostly the ones who can be confident and relaxed about not doing so, have been touted as sure things forever, like a Rice or Bellingham.
You can confidently traverse the minefield of movement once you've got that 'proper money' underneath you. Caicedo is one serious injury or bad run of form from all 'this' potentially slipping from his grasp no matter how touted he is, so can't blame him for wanting to get a big move sorted. Even if doesn't work out, it's 2-3 years of massive wages; if it does work out, it's a pay rise or a move. Win-win from his perspective.
He’s not going for anything less than around £90-£100m.
Is Ben a Chelsea fan? This reads as a Chelsea’s fan interpretation of events. Why would Caicedo having an opinion on his value matter at all?
We had Jimmy Case in the early 80s and Bobby Zamora in the early 2000s!
In all seriousness though, you are right we have never had as a good a team as the one we have right now.
No idea if he's a Chelsea fan but all his "sources" are Chelsea linked, it's the only insight he has.
He’s a Leicester fan. But yeah, his sources around this deal, if he has any, are probably on the Chelsea side of things.
Probably get done for around £90m. Chelsea have that money to spend and will do so if they hold out.
so he signed a new deal with only a gentlemans agreement to let him go?
that would be idiotic if thats the case
being a football agent can't be that hard surely
that would be idiotic if thats the case
being a football agent can't be that hard surely
Posted this on another thread reposting here
Caicedo changed his agent in Jan. And the new agent seems notorious to say the least. I think they have claimed strongly to Chelsea that 65/70m guaranteed would be enough as that is what Tchouameni went for and then some add ons on top. But this is not Brightons stance. They are just assuming a lot of things without checking with Brighton.
In Jan aswell we were led to believe he would be for sale at the right price with the same Tchouameni price as reference and thus we bid 65+5 even after Brighton did say a strong NO on first bid. Then the whole message on Instagram fiasco. They then made a dumb move of signing a new contract without a release clause.
The market has moved on a lot from that Tchouameni deal. We have had Enzo/Rice move. Plus Brighton have no need for money unlike League 1 clubs. And within PL deals are in any case more expensive. His agent is miscalculating and spreading misinformation. So this one can drag i think.
Caicedo changed his agent in Jan. And the new agent seems notorious to say the least. I think they have claimed strongly to Chelsea that 65/70m guaranteed would be enough as that is what Tchouameni went for and then some add ons on top. But this is not Brightons stance. They are just assuming a lot of things without checking with Brighton.
In Jan aswell we were led to believe he would be for sale at the right price with the same Tchouameni price as reference and thus we bid 65+5 even after Brighton did say a strong NO on first bid. Then the whole message on Instagram fiasco. They then made a dumb move of signing a new contract without a release clause.
The market has moved on a lot from that Tchouameni deal. We have had Enzo/Rice move. Plus Brighton have no need for money unlike League 1 clubs. And within PL deals are in any case more expensive. His agent is miscalculating and spreading misinformation. So this one can drag i think.
Not sure what Chelsea expected when they turned down a bigger offer in January from Arsenal.
No chance they accept lower than 80 especially in light of the Rice deal
No chance they accept lower than 80 especially in light of the Rice deal
So where the feck is the 70m plus 5m add ons Jacobs was talking about not two hours ago?
It's always strategically worded in football journo jargon to give themselves an out if it doesn't pan out. He said 'it is understood 5M add-ons were discussed'
I think Chelsea are happy with paying between 80-90M including add-ons. Brighton will need to come down from their 100M valuation though, if this deal has any chance of getting done.
I came to post that I wasn't really sure why Chelsea are prioritizing Caicedo when there are such glaring holes in their squad elsewhere, but I then did a quick google of their current squad and it's fecking atrocious 
They literally need to fix every part of their squad. Striker options are dreadful, centre-backs aren't much better, wing-backs can't stay fit, and their GK's are nothing to write home about. And they'll have spent upwards of across 3 windows. Fecking nuts.
They literally need to fix every part of their squad. Striker options are dreadful, centre-backs aren't much better, wing-backs can't stay fit, and their GK's are nothing to write home about. And they'll have spent upwards of across 3 windows. Fecking nuts.
I came to post that I wasn't really sure why Chelsea are prioritizing Caicedo when there are such glaring holes in their squad elsewhere, but I then did a quick google of their current squad and it's fecking atrocious
They literally need to fix every part of their squad. Striker options are dreadful, centre-backs aren't much better, wing-backs can't stay fit, and their GK's are nothing to write home about. And they'll have spent upwards of across 3 windows. Fecking nuts.
You don't get much for £600 million in 12 months these days!
Or you'll just cave and pay exactly what they want like you did with Enzo Fernandez?
After seeing what price Fernandez and Rice went for, Brighton should demand 100 million.
Chelsea fans told us this was "Negotiating 101" and knew nothing about business
Personally I doubt it but we'll see.
TBF though if they get Caicedo, they'd have one of the best balanced and most talented midfield pairings wrapped up for the foreseeable future which is pretty big. Carney Chukwuemeka looks good too.I came to post that I wasn't really sure why Chelsea are prioritizing Caicedo when there are such glaring holes in their squad elsewhere, but I then did a quick google of their current squad and it's fecking atrocious
They literally need to fix every part of their squad. Striker options are dreadful, centre-backs aren't much better, wing-backs can't stay fit, and their GK's are nothing to write home about. And they'll have spent upwards of across 3 windows. Fecking nuts.
Reece James/Malo Gusto at right back is an excellent duo as well. Would have loved to have signed Gusto, yet he'll just be a fill in for Reece whenever he gets injured which is often TBF. Lewis Hall as a backup left back is fine if cucurella is mediocre, chilwell is average and always injured.
Colwill at LCB looks like he's a long term brilliant CB. You'd assume one of the others can step in next to him, Thiago Silva very old of course but still good in a back 3.
From their attack, between Nkunku, Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke, CHO and Jackson (as backup 9, they still need a main 9 but don't think they get one) they've got solid talent. No star quality though, and no starting 9. But definitely there is a team to build off of. My guess is they do something like:
Kepa
James Silva Colwill Chilwell
Caicedo Enzo
Madueke Nkunku Sterling
Jackson
I came to post that I wasn't really sure why Chelsea are prioritizing Caicedo when there are such glaring holes in their squad elsewhere, but I then did a quick google of their current squad and it's fecking atrocious
They literally need to fix every part of their squad. Striker options are dreadful, centre-backs aren't much better, wing-backs can't stay fit, and their GK's are nothing to write home about. And they'll have spent upwards of across 3 windows. Fecking nuts.
Which sides in the PL have an overall better full-back collective than James, Gusto, Chilwell, Cucurella? There's also Maatsen and Hall waiting in the sidelines for LB if Cucurella keeps being shit.
And are Colwill, Silva, Badiashile, Fofana and Chalobah really only 'slightly better than dreadful'? Fofana's injuries are admittedly a bit of a problem but otherwise zero complaints about our CBs from me. Colwill's headed for the very top of the game, Badiashile's looked pretty good since signing in January and Silva is still very good despite his age. Chalobah is a decent squad filler.
GKs are a bit shite, yeah. But even so, last season Kepa wasn't anywhere near as bad as some are saying. Won't be enough to challenge for the big trophies with Kepa as 1st choice but on last season's form he's good enough for a team that aims to compete for top-4. Long term we need improvements there but aside from the unrealistic targets Costa/Maignan I'm not sure if there's anyone available who I'd even fancy going after. Maybe it's a decision for another transfer window.
In the forward areas we have some raw talent who've yet to show anything for the club but the potential is there with Jackson, Mudryk and Madueke. Whether these guys work out for us or not remains to be seen but I'm ready to at least give them a chance and improve on these positions if they prove to be not good enough.
Chilwell, James, Colwill, Badiashile, Fofana, Enzo, Nkunku, Sterling and Caicedo (if signed) make up for a pretty good squad core IMO.
For all the money they have spent that potential starting line up is very underwhelming.
Yeah they've wasted a ton but it's not that relevant to look at what's been wasted in the past, but more what they will have for next year and the year after. They've definitely wasted half a billion which is wild, but they did grab a few very good pieces, and had some very good home grown players, and if they get Caicedo in then they will definitely have a midfield to be envious of. Didn't want them to get Enzo even at that price, and don't want them to get Caicedo even if it's 100m. They're pretty much a perfect midfield pairing for me, press resistant, suit each other very well, quality on the ball, can dictate tempo, can progress it well...
Colwill and Reece James at the back should be staples they build around, and they have Badiashlie and Gusto to back them up so again, can't hate on that. A lot of the others like Fofana though are just a waste due to cost and what they'll actually bring (constant injuries).
That is wild but i feel like we've done the same
I agree on paper Enzo and Caicedo looks like an FM load/save cm partnership when you think that you are now set for the next ten years. As a united fan I hope it goes to rat shit asap though.
If they can keep RJ and BC fit then it's not a bad defence I guess assuming age doesn't catch up finally with Silva and Colwill can find the consistency at that age to play CB.
I now you're the worst scout to ever exist b_r but what's your prediction for them this season ?
Highlighted are utterly unreliable due to injury records unfortunately. Could even possibly throw Badiashille into that mix. All good players on their day, but simply can't be relied upon as first choices. Personally, I just see nothing in Cucarella to suggest he's up to the required standard, let alone the amount forked out for him.
Don't really know enough about the forward line, but in the PL it's hard to have a totally raw and unproven frontline. Sterling is going to have to seriously step up, something I'm not sure is in his game to help those around him transition.
With Caicedo the midfield balance looks excellent, granted. But elsewhere I think both Utd and Arsenal have far superior wingback options than Chelsea based purely on reliability and availability.
I just feel without another round of massive investment there's so much being asked of Poch to come in and work miracles with large areas of the squad. And I simply don't understand how Chelsea have spent so much money to get them into a far worse situation than they were less than 12 months ago.
In Jan I thought Caicedo was being a bit of an idiot for throwing a fit at not being sold after 6 months in the League, said as much on here.
But if there was some sort of understanding between club and player that he could leave for a reasonable fee in the summer if he put his head down for the rest of the season then Brighton are playing a dangerous game.
I think a Brighton fan posted on here that they don't really do release clauses, but if they start to get a reputation for going back on their verbal agreements and blocking players big moves then they'll have fewer talents wanting to sign for them without some kind of clause, hell, even United kept their verbal agreement with Ronaldo to stay one more year before he joined Madrid, imagine if we had gone back on that deal.
I'm all for smaller clubs getting their money and fleecing the likes of Chelsea, makes the sport much better, but they just need to not shoot themselves in the foot while doing so.
But if there was some sort of understanding between club and player that he could leave for a reasonable fee in the summer if he put his head down for the rest of the season then Brighton are playing a dangerous game.
I think a Brighton fan posted on here that they don't really do release clauses, but if they start to get a reputation for going back on their verbal agreements and blocking players big moves then they'll have fewer talents wanting to sign for them without some kind of clause, hell, even United kept their verbal agreement with Ronaldo to stay one more year before he joined Madrid, imagine if we had gone back on that deal.
I'm all for smaller clubs getting their money and fleecing the likes of Chelsea, makes the sport much better, but they just need to not shoot themselves in the foot while doing so.
Chilwell is far from average. He's excellent, his biggest problem is being injury prone, which goes for a quite of the back line. Badiashile is just as talented as Colwill, as is Fofana (if he can stay fit). Our defence, on paper and potential, is fantastic. We'd obviously need to upgrade the GK.
Enzo x Caicedo will be awesome together. We'll see how Santos fares in the PL, there is a lot excitement and buzz around him for next season. We will still need another midfielder on top of Caicedo though. We've let 5 midfielders go in the last 6 months.
A lot of the money was spent on potential. For example, about 60M of it was spent on Casadei, Santos, David Fofana and Chuku. Another 100M was on Enzo alone. Obviously spending 100m combined on Koulibaly and Cucurella is a disaster but then Mudryk, Madueke, Badiashile, Gusto, Enzo nearly 300M between them, some of them bring immediately quality but some of them is purely (risky) investment in their potential.
All of that put together and we're talking between 350-400M where most of it is spent on U22 players with potential to be great but still quite raw right now. So yes unprecedented money spent across two windows but in context, the lineups will always 'look underwhelming' when a lot of the signings are players who are very talented but with everything to prove still.
Brought for 5 million, right ?
Getting 90 + million for him a year later would be absolutely amazing.
Getting 90 + million for him a year later would be absolutely amazing.
I was the worst newbie scout because I didn't give anyone any likesThat is wild but i feel like we've done the same
I agree on paper Enzo and Caicedo looks like an FM load/save cm partnership when you think that you are now set for the next ten years. As a united fan I hope it goes to rat shit asap though.
If they can keep RJ and BC fit then it's not a bad defence I guess assuming age doesn't catch up finally with Silva and Colwill can find the consistency at that age to play CB.
I now you're the worst scout to ever exist b_r but what's your prediction for them this season ?
My guess is they are top 5 which is a CL spot. Depends on how Nkunku and Jackson do really. They need goals, and Mudryk is meh, Madueke is young and not sure he can provide too big there, not sure if they keep CHO so really it's just on Nkunku and Jackson. If they hit, they could get as high as 3rd even IMO. A big advantage is not being in any European competition. Year after year you see clubs without fixture congestion hit a level of consistency that isn't possible for top clubs. Clubs that actually have good players and no congestion especially see a disproportionate boost. They'll get a new manager bounce too, and while I don't love Poch, he is a decent coach. They'll be good and have hope with him for a couple of years before they reach the point where they realize he can't get them over the line to take the last step. Last season for them is as easy to ignore as 21/22 was for United, everyone knows that wasn't the real level, it was a spiraling situation ending with an interim manager where half the squad knew they'd be leaving.
NO Caicedo and they'll flop with no balance. Caicedo is capable of balancing them though and their front 4 will likely look electric at times but be inconsistent.
I was just thinking the same...seems beyond common sense to include a transfer fee/clause in any renewal.
Gentlemans agreement....
They don't respect the contracts they sign by looking for an out at the first chance. Then they expected a supposed gentlemans agreement to be honoured.
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