Millwall fans - Will they ever change?

Inigo Montoya said:
Well if you're going to sing," fecking hate Millwall," as their hoolies walk past, don't be shocked when one of them reacts
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Whilst basically you're right...you should still be able to sing a song without getting punched. Just give him some banter back instead of physically assaulting.
 
Coxy said:
Whilst basically you're right...you should still be able to sing a song without getting punched. Just give him some banter back instead of physically assaulting.
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Well, this is a club with a fearsome reputation and while I believe in free speech,there's considerable amount of common sense that goes along with that especially where football and irrational hatreds exist.

This wasn't BBC's Question Time, it's the Seven Sisters Rd(assuming) on a London derby day, keep your head down and comments to yourself
 
'The reference to selling DVDs is considered to be a racist slur when directed at an Asian person'

Isn't this 'banter' as opposed to being racist? Isn't it the same as calling all Liverpool fans 'council estate thieves' or a Welsh person a 'sheep shagger'?

Seems about overly PC if I'm honest.
 
sammsky1 said:
'The reference to selling DVDs is considered to be a racist slur when directed at an Asian person'

Isn't this 'banter' as opposed to being racist? Isn't it the same as calling all Liverpool fans 'council estate thieves' or a Welsh person a 'sheep shagger'?

Seems about overly PC if I'm honest.
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So you'd be happy if one of our players, say he was of Indian/Pakistani/Bangla Deshi descent was insulted with comments about curry or something equally derogatory?

Grow up! This is the 21st fecking century. There's more inventive and humorous songs out there without racial stereotype
 
sammsky1 said:
'The reference to selling DVDs is considered to be a racist slur when directed at an Asian person'

Isn't this 'banter' as opposed to being racist? Isn't it the same as calling all Liverpool fans 'council estate thieves' or a Welsh person a 'sheep shagger'?

Seems about overly PC if I'm honest.
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That old chess nut. How about they all start signing get your tits out at a womens game. Banter right?
 
Phil said:
We sang about our Korean eating dogs, guys.
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And for a short time that chant was considered one of the funniest ever invented.

Omid Djalili included it in his comedy routine to highlight the reference to the bitterness between fans. Point is we have moved on and no longer sing songs that may degrade a player's race or culture but some fans haven't.

You can play Devil's Advocate all you like but chants like that no longer have a place on the terraces
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So you'd be happy if one of our players, say he was of Indian/Pakistani/Bangla Deshi descent was insulted with comments about curry or something equally derogatory?

Grow up! This is the 21st fecking century. There's more inventive and humorous songs out there without racial stereotype
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Cassidy said:
That old chess nut. How about they all start signing get your tits out at a womens game. Banter right?
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I'm simply asking.

Freedom of Speech merchants would argue that nothing is sacred and believe it is specifically their right to ridicule and offend.

Where does one draw the lines?

Isn't there that song 'Manchester is wonderful' - i can vividly remember it being sung during my Manchester University days!
 
Pani said:
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Obviously I don't condone violence but the guy who got punched had it coming to him. You just can't sing that in front of the fans of the club you're demeaning and not expect retaliation.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
And for a short time that chant was considered one of the funniest ever invented.

Omid Djalili included it in his comedy routine to highlight the reference to the bitterness between fans. Point is we have moved on and no longer sing songs that may degrade a player's race or culture but some fans haven't.

You can play Devil's Advocate all you like but chants like that no longer have a place on the terraces
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I'm pretty sure we'd still be singing it if he was still here. Shit I've heard it sung around fans still.

I do agree there's no place for Millwall's chant and our singing the Park don't in no way detracts from that. The Park one just made/makes me kinda uneasy too.
 
worcesterred said:
Obviously I don't condone violence but the guy who got punched had it coming to him. You just can't sing that in front of the fans of the club you're demeaning and not expect retaliation.
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Yeah, I can't really sympathize.
 
Precaution said:
Bermondsey is a crap hole with Tower Hamlets right next door, even worse, the "fans" are just a bunch of racist scumbags who still think its the days of the firm and stuff, 'fraid not chaps.
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My brother lived in tower hamlets for about 3 months and said he saw about 3 or 4 fights while walking to work at 8 in the morning. One time a guy was chasing another with a metal pipe. Must be a crazy place.
 
limerickcitykid said:
My brother lived in tower hamlets for about 3 months and said he saw about 3 or 4 fights while walking to work at 8 in the morning. One time a guy was chasing another with a metal pipe. Must be a crazy place.
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Tower Hamlets is a very big area. Where did he live where there were 3 or 4 fights at 8am? Sounds like he was massively exaggerating. As someone who previously lived in the area, it's certainly not as bad as you guys are making out.
 
It's the type of racist supporter base, like Chelsea, that attract racist supporters. Due to being lower league they can get away with more hooliganism to make up for the fact that thier shit.
 
PoTMS said:
Tower Hamlets is a very big area. Where did he live where there were 3 or 4 fights at 8am? Sounds like he was massively exaggerating. As someone who previously lived in the area, it's certainly not as bad as you guys are making out.
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3 or 4 fights over the 3 months. No tbf he says the small area he lived in was really shit but it was surrounded by decent and good areas. Like canary wharf is quite nice isn't it? He was in limehouse I believe.

I'm living here now too in the east end and the amount of people I see in public drinking in the morning is madness so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them fighting at any time of the day.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
You can't sympathise with someone being physically attacked in the street for chanting about a football team? My God. Abhorrent behaviour that should not be tolerated imo.
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I'm not tolerating either side. The guy was acting stupid and provocative which makes me less prone to sympathize with him. I can say that without agreeing with the action taken against him.
 
Scarecrow said:
I'm not tolerating either side. The guy was acting stupid and provocative which makes me less prone to sympathize with him. I can say that without agreeing with the action taken against him.
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Fair enough.

I thought it was the tin man that had no heart.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So you'd be happy if one of our players, say he was of Indian/Pakistani/Bangla Deshi descent was insulted with comments about curry or something equally derogatory?

Grow up! This is the 21st fecking century. There's more inventive and humorous songs out there without racial stereotype
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Jesus. Don't start the curry conversation again.
 
Seems like it only brings out the best in the Korean players. First Seol's winner and now Son's hattrick; can't understand a word, reply by beating down Millwall.
 
My cousin and his two brothers are Millwall fans and some of the nicest guys you could meet. I even went to Wembley to see the play-off final against Scunthorpe a few years back with them. They have told me that there are a group of fans who think they're hard and love the infamous reputation they have. This is only a small percentage though and the majority are no worse than other club's fans.
 
sammsky1 said:
Isn't this 'banter' as opposed to being racist? Isn't it the same as calling all Liverpool fans 'council estate thieves' or a Welsh person a 'sheep shagger'?

Seems about overly PC if I'm honest.
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If Son was South Korean but of a Caucasian descent(if we suppose that his dad was a foreigner who settled in Seoul). Would he be subjected to those chants?
 
BAMSOLA said:
The areas itself where the club is based and draws it support from (Rotherhite, Bermondsey, Peckham, Surrey Quays) aren't particularly problem areas racially anymore (Peckham has a reputation for roughness but is actually a very ethnically diverse multicultural area) The problem is the club and its reputation and the idiot fans who feel the need to turn up and portray an image which is at odds with the area itself.

These are areas (Peckham aside which has always been ethically diverse for as long as I can remember) that quite rightly had a reputation as having racist elements during the 70's, 80's and early 90's due to the BNP, Combat 18 and such organisations having a presence there, however its gone through huge changes since then and is now an area where you wouldn't expect ethnic minorities to encounter too many issues, the problem isn't the area its the club and its reputation.
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Oh there are still plenty of problems there. I lived in that area for 4 years. The kids are growing up in a more diverse environment but there is still a big working class white population who don't like anyone who looks a bit foreign. And to be fair a lot on the other side who don't like anyone white.

As the old guard get older and younger fans replace them it will die out. Can't see much they can do until then, lots of them love the reputation.
 
Scarecrow said:
I'm not tolerating either side. The guy was acting stupid and provocative which makes me less prone to sympathize with him. I can say that without agreeing with the action taken against him.
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yeh but he's in tottenham. If he were doing it near the millwall ground then he's being stupid, but chanting it outside your home ground is a place you wouldn't expect to get punched. We sing how much we hate city and Liverpool outside old trafford are we being stupid and provocative?
 
Pani said:
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This is my impression of London in general. It doesn't even have to be people from the city like in this case.

The last time I was in central London trying catch Scotland vs England game, I decided to wear an England Rooney jersey. I tried going to 3-4 different bars but got physically pushed around by Scottish fans in every one of the bars.

Why do people have such a hard time enjoying sports without this nonsense?
 
RedCurry said:
This is my impression of London in general. It doesn't even have to be people from the city like in this case.

The last time I was in central London trying catch Scotland vs England game, I decided to wear an England Rooney jersey. I tried going to 3-4 different bars but got physically pushed around by Scottish fans in every one of the bars.

Why do people have such a hard time enjoying sports without this nonsense?
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I dont get it. One of my best friends is a scouser (hell my grandma used to pronounce purple like piirple good rest her soul) and while we rip the shit out of each we both know is just a game.
I have another friend that's Scottish. Same thing.
Tribal warfare is only fun when you know it's just sports. Why anyone would want to fight over the fact your team is in blue and mine is in red is beyond me.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Oh I know it's common in parts of the world. Can't imagine I'll be eating one anytime soon anyway.
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Think it's a different breed of dog though, which are bred specifically for food. Not just your regular pet dog off the street. Just like pet rabbits and rabbits slaughtered for food are generally different breeds.

sammsky1 said:
Freedom of Speech merchants would argue that nothing is sacred and believe it is specifically their right to ridicule and offend.
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Freedom of speech rights don't really apply to privately owned areas like a stadium. The club can refuse to allow those fans entry if they wish.
 
I've a few Millwall supporting mates and they're as placid as can be. They just attract morons who love the hard man image and play up to it whenever they can. Creates a bit of a mob culture, and they probably thought they had to do something yesterday with them playing Tottenham so they can continue the illusion.
 
Bet if he played for Millwall it would be different. "Go on my son!"
feck, I'll get my coat.
 
macheda14 said:
yeh but he's in tottenham. If he were doing it near the millwall ground then he's being stupid, but chanting it outside your home ground is a place you wouldn't expect to get punched. We sing how much we hate city and Liverpool outside old trafford are we being stupid and provocative?
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The location is only relevant so far as the assumption that you're among your people is true. He's clearly not. Come on, do I really need to explain why what he was doing is idiotic and is no surprise he got smashed? You see a group of Millwall fans, you're way outnumbered, they're clearly in an awful mood, you chant "We hate Millwall" in their face. If you can't see the consequences that might arise from those actions, you're being stupid, yes. Wherever you are.

In a perfect world, he doesn't get attacked but it's not where we live in and everyone knows it, including that guy.
 
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I live in Korea, fact is they do eat dogs. And racism is much more of a problem in Korea than in the UK but you will rarely hear about it as it doesnt fit the media narrative on racism. The day to day racism that exists in Korea far outweighs anything Son will likely ever experience.

Still what happened was disgraceful, glad the lad scored a hatrick.
 
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Neither "eating dogs" nor "DVD" chants seem racist to me. Those are stereotypes, there's a difference. At least the way I understood the meaning of "DVD", as explained in the previous pages.
 
stevieg4ever said:
I live in Korea, fact is they do eat dogs. And racism is much more of a problem in Korea than in the UK but you will rarely hear about it as it doesnt fit the media narrative on racism. The day to day racism that exists in Korea far outweighs anything Son will likely ever experience.

Still what happened was disgraceful, glad the lad scored a hatrick.
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Well yeah, you'll rarely hear about it because we don't live in Korea and realistically have little to do with it. If what is happening with Park Guen-Hye now was happening in France or Germany, it would still be front page news in all of the papers.

I don't think you can really blame it on the area as such anymore tbh. Bermondsey is a pretty gentrified place now and Tottenham is a complete shithole. I imagine as some said that it has maintained a certain group of fans within its fanbase and perhaps continues to attract new fans of that ilk because of its reputation. Every time they have a 'big' game, they feel the need to live up to the tag.
 
For some perspective just search "blackface Korea" in Youtube and see what you come up with.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So you'd be happy if one of our players, say he was of Indian/Pakistani/Bangla Deshi descent was insulted with comments about curry or something equally derogatory?

Grow up! This is the 21st fecking century. There's more inventive and humorous songs out there without racial stereotype
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Russians and vodka
Italians and pizza

#racism
 
Scarecrow said:
The location is only relevant so far as the assumption that you're among your people is true. He's clearly not. Come on, do I really need to explain why what he was doing is idiotic and is no surprise he got smashed? You see a group of Millwall fans, you're way outnumbered, they're clearly in an awful mood, you chant "We hate Millwall" in their face. If you can't see the consequences that might arise from those actions, you're being stupid, yes. Wherever you are.

In a perfect world, he doesn't get attacked but it's not where we live in and everyone knows it, including that guy.
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Spot on. Not condoning what the Millwall fan did but it was an idiotic thing for the Spurs fan to do. Anyone that has been a match-going fan for any serious length of time will learn that in certain situations it's best to just keep one's head down, and gobbing off to hundreds of opposition fans while totally outnumbered is not a wise thing to do in any way, shape, or form.
 
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