Midfielders who can play as no 6/no 8

[Bojan Djordjic]

To get the type of midfielder who will "move the dial" you have to spend serious money. We fecked it when we overpaid for Pogba, Chelsea further fecked it when they overpaid for Enzo. We need someone who is good enough to oust Eriksen or Casemiro and that isn't going to happen for less than 100 million. Sabitzer is available for reportedly less than 20. Hes a useful backup.

We need a striker above all else. We can't fecking score.

You just mentioned Enzo there and he was available for €20mn only six months or so before Chelsea paid that fee for him so you've just disproved your own point. Caicedo, another player all the big clubs are clamouring to sign, was available for even less. Sabitzer, isn't better than any of our starters, would cost us a fee and high-ish wages as he is another player at his peak if not entering his post-peak years. Also, it is not going to take a €100mn player to displace Christian Eriksen from that team.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

You just mentioned Enzo there and he was available for €20mn only six months or so before Chelsea paid that fee for him so you've just disproved your own point. Caicedo, another player all the big clubs are clamouring to sign, was available for even less. Sabitzer, isn't better than any of our starters, would cost us a fee and high-ish wages as he is another player at his peak if not entering his post-peak years. Also, it is not going to take a €100mn player to displace Christian Eriksen from that team.

He was available for 20mill and no big club jumped on him. He played at an inferior league and no one wanted to gamble. He had 6 months at Benfica and a good world cup and Chelsea panic buys. Thats the market. Caicedo was available for 4 million and no big club went for him. He played 6 months in brighton reserves then replaces Bissouma and plays very well. Arsenal got turned down at 60 mill. He will cost close to 100 mill to get out of Brighton. Thats the market.

Just because these players are available in inferior leagues doesn't mean they come in and play well for United. We have a long long list of players who looked good in such leagues and completely shat the bed for United, even under Ferguson.

Eriksen will be the starter here next year unless we can tempt De Jong. Theres a minor argument the manager might try and salvage Gravenberch.

Otherwise Sabitzer is a shrewd move. Less than 20 mill and a wage that is less than our highest earners. (~200k p/w)

If anyone genuinely thinks we are gonna reach in and pay 100 mill on a midfielder this summer when we desperately need goals... I have some wonderful magic beans available for you

 

[croadyman]

He was available for 20mill and no big club jumped on him. He played at an inferior league and no one wanted to gamble. He had 6 months at Benfica and a good world cup and Chelsea panic buys. Thats the market. Caicedo was available for 4 million and no big club went for him. He played 6 months in brighton reserves then replaces Bissouma and plays very well. Arsenal got turned down at 60 mill. He will cost close to 100 mill to get out of Brighton. Thats the market.

Just because these players are available in inferior leagues doesn't mean they come in and play well for United. We have a long long list of players who looked good in such leagues and completely shat the bed for United, even under Ferguson.

Eriksen will be the starter here next year unless we can tempt De Jong. Theres a minor argument the manager might try and salvage Gravenberch.

Otherwise Sabitzer is a shrewd move. Less than 20 mill and a wage that is less than our highest earners. (~200k p/w)

If anyone genuinely thinks we are gonna reach in and pay 100 mill on a midfielder this summer when we desperately need goals... I have some wonderful magic beans available for you

Oh yeah the majority of budget needs spending on a prolific striker,we need to show some shrewdness with midfield buys

 

[Erik the Red]

Casemiro to me is a bad example we have seen he has goals and assists in his locker, there are plenty of DM's/6's that are very limited in terms of their footballing ability, I wouldn't dread Casemiro playing with another DM for instance in the same way I would say a Makelele

That is exactly the point. Makele and Ndidi would make an awful partnership, as both are poor on the ball. Similarly Pogba and Tielemans are poor positionally, and would not be a good partnership. Casemiro and De Jong can both do "the other job" reasonably well, and would be a really exciting partnership, potentially better than a ndidi / pogba partnership as they are easier to play against on the ball as the opposition just have to watch pogba, and in attack, the opposition only have to get past ndidi.

Roy Keane was pretty good going forward, but he often held position to allow Scholes more freedom. The less said about Scholes tackling the better. An unbalanced midfield will always cause problems, and although Fred, Mctominay, Sabitzer have their attributes, none are world class. The statistic of Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes all playing in the same team of played 17, won 15, drawn 2 suggests exciting times ahead. However, we clearly need better cover in each position.

 

[dutchred]

That is exactly the point. Makele and Ndidi would make an awful partnership, as both are poor on the ball. Similarly Pogba and Tielemans are poor positionally, and would not be a good partnership. Casemiro and De Jong can both do "the other job" reasonably well, and would be a really exciting partnership, potentially better than a ndidi / pogba partnership as they are easier to play against on the ball as the opposition just have to watch pogba, and in attack, the opposition only have to get past ndidi.

Roy Keane was pretty good going forward, but he often held position to allow Scholes more freedom. The less said about Scholes tackling the better. An unbalanced midfield will always cause problems, and although Fred, Mctominay, Sabitzer have their attributes, none are world class. The statistic of Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes all playing in the same team of played 17, won 15, drawn 2 suggests exciting times ahead. However, we clearly need better cover in each position.

Good points. Next season Mainoo, Amad, Mejbri and Sarbitzer could cover fro one of Eriken or Bruno, the main problem is cover for Casemiro

 

[justsomebloke]

Caicedo, Bennacer, Rabiot, Ugarte and Valverde off the top of my head and possibly Lavia in time and I’d say all of them are attainable. I’d personally be happy with Caicedo and Rabiot or Bennacer and Lavia coming in this summer which pound for pound should work out similarly money wise.

Mikel Merino?

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

He was available for 20mill and no big club jumped on him. He played at an inferior league and no one wanted to gamble. He had 6 months at Benfica and a good world cup and Chelsea panic buys. Thats the market. Caicedo was available for 4 million and no big club went for him. He played 6 months in brighton reserves then replaces Bissouma and plays very well. Arsenal got turned down at 60 mill. He will cost close to 100 mill to get out of Brighton. Thats the market.

Just because these players are available in inferior leagues doesn't mean they come in and play well for United. We have a long long list of players who looked good in such leagues and completely shat the bed for United, even under Ferguson.

Eriksen will be the starter here next year unless we can tempt De Jong. Theres a minor argument the manager might try and salvage Gravenberch.

Otherwise Sabitzer is a shrewd move. Less than 20 mill and a wage that is less than our highest earners. (~200k p/w)

If anyone genuinely thinks we are gonna reach in and pay 100 mill on a midfielder this summer when we desperately need goals... I have some wonderful magic beans available for you

Sorry, not sure I follow this post at all. No big clubs jumped on him but what's the point? Are you trying to say they're not good enough because they clearly are and I don't think six months with Benfica made Enzo Fernandes into the player he is now. Real Madrid and Barca regularly sign players directly from South America. You might have heard of obscure talents like Neymar and Vinicius Jr. Also, Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo would have easily gotten minutes in a McFred United midfield.

 

[Kingslayer18]

He is a very interesting player. His playing style reminds me very much of another Ligue 1 based diminutive central midfielder - Marco Verratti.

His contract expires in 2024, too...

Yip, definitely gettable in the 20-25m range. Similar player to FDJ, in that he's a good dribbler and quite press resistant. Also a good progressor of the ball. Cheap punt that could have large upside, would be happy to back up Erikssen for a season or even potentially take over his spot next season

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Sorry, not sure I follow this post at all. No big clubs jumped on him but what's the point? Are you trying to say they're not good enough because they clearly are and I don't think six months with Benfica made Enzo Fernandes into the player he is now. Real Madrid and Barca regularly sign players directly from South America. You might have heard of obscure talents like Neymar and Vinicius Jr. Also, Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo would have easily gotten minutes in a McFred United midfield.

I'm telling you why top premier league teams are too slow to jump on unproven talent from supposedly inferior leagues. Too many times they've had their hands burned. So they wait until they shine elsewhere and then over pay. Thats the current market.

 

[dutchred]

I stll think that Kokcu from Feyenoord is a fantastic player, can play 6 or 8. Also Wieffer is going to ba fantastic midfielder.
PS I'm not a Feyenoord supporter.( I spport United and Ajax)

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

I'm telling you why top premier league teams are too slow to jump on unproven talent from supposedly inferior leagues. Too many times they've had their hands burned. So they wait until they shine elsewhere and then over pay. Thats the current market.

Premier league teams have had their hands burned with purchases from every league including PL to PL so it's hardly a reason to write off buying high potential players when their value is low. You said you can't buy players that move the dial for less than 100mn to justify paying €20mn for a player that doesn't really improve our team at all. I'm showing you an example where that is possible by pointing out two players well on their way to being worldclass who could both have been bought for less than €30mn

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Premier league teams have had their hands burned with purchases from every league including PL to PL so it's hardly a reason to write off buying high potential players when their value is low. You said you can't buy players that move the dial for less than 100mn to justify paying €20mn for a player that doesn't really improve our team at all. I'm showing you an example where that is possible by pointing out two players well on their way to being worldclass who could both have been bought for less than €30mn

And yet the big 6 didn't go for it because of eons of failed purchases. You're arguing for no reason squire. Theres high potential kids out there who top 6 won't go for until they've had a run at a higher level. Until United restructure the scouting department it will be much much more of the same.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

And yet the big 6 didn't go for it because of eons of failed purchases. You're arguing for no reason squire. Theres high potential kids out there who top 6 won't go for until they've had a run at a higher level. Until United restructure the scouting department it will be much much more of the same.

I've just provided you with two examples of the biggest clubs in world football where they did to great success what you are telling me nobody does. Also United were leading the race to sign Caicedo only to pull out because of complications around his ownership. Only this year, Chelsea have signed Andrey Santos and City have signed Julian Alvarez so it's just not accurate to say what you are saying.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

And yet the big 6 didn't go for it because of eons of failed purchases. You're arguing for no reason squire. Theres high potential kids out there who top 6 won't go for until they've had a run at a higher level. Until United restructure the scouting department it will be much much more of the same.

Scouting has nothing to do with it. Rather it's who makes decisions to purchase players that has been the persistent issue.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

I've just provided you with two examples of the biggest clubs in world football where they did to great success what you are telling me nobody does. Also United were leading the race to sign Caicedo only to pull out because of complications around his ownership. Only this year, Chelsea have signed Andrey Santos and City have signed Julian Alvarez so it's just not accurate to say what you are saying.

The two examples you gave me where Neymar and Vini Jr. Vini Jr was bought for 46 million euros, whereas Neymar was purchased by Barcelona for over 80 million Euros you rocket. According to Marca the full fee for Neymar reached 85.17m!

Also Andrey Santos is still on loan in Brazil so he hasn't just slotted in to Chelsea team has he?

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

The two examples you gave me where Neymar and Vini Jr. Vini Jr was bought for 46 million euros, whereas Neymar was purchased by Barcelona for over 80 million Euros you rocket. According to Marca the full fee for Neymar reached 85.17m!

Also Andrey Santos is still on loan in Brazil so he hasn't just slotted in to Chelsea team has he?

You're saying nobody wants to gamble on €20mn players because they play in inferior leagues but then quoted €130mn spent on two teenage talents that were bought directly from similar standard leagues. You can't keep your argument straight. It's okay to just say you're wrong.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

You're saying nobody wants to gamble on €20mn players because they play in inferior leagues but then quoted €130mn spent on two teenage talents that were bought directly from similar standard leagues. You can't keep your argument straight. It's okay to just say you're wrong.

Mate you're making me cross eyed with your nonsense. Brighton are the only team around the top 6 who seem to find foreign players for 20 mill and slot them into their starting 11 and get great success. The traditional top 6 generally don't. You gave me Alvarez as an example of those who do. Hes started 7 games in the league and came off the bench 16 times. He could well be a top talent one day but right now hes not a starter. Andrey Santos as another example, he's not even in the country yet. Even though he's now legal age for transfer,, he's still on loan in Brazil.

You tried to use Real and Barce as an example of teams who find 20 mill players and put them in the starting 11. Instead they spent huge sums on what they thought were generational talent. Still doesn't answer my statement that the top 6 generally doesn't. Is that because of getting prices jacked up by foreign clubs? Possibly. Is it because they prefer to wait and see if the talent succeeds in better leagues first? Possibly.

Either way, that's the market right now for top 6 teams.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Mate you're making me cross eyed with your nonsense. Brighton are the only team around the top 6 who seem to find foreign players for 20 mill and slot them into their starting 11 and get great success. The traditional top 6 generally don't. You gave me Alvarez as an example of those who do. Hes started 7 games in the league and came off the bench 16 times. He could well be a top talent one day but right now hes not a starter. Andrey Santos as another example, he's not even in the country yet. Even though he's now legal age for transfer,, he's still on loan in Brazil.

You tried to use Real and Barce as an example of teams who find 20 mill players and put them in the starting 11. Instead they spent huge sums on what they thought were generational talent. Still doesn't answer my statement that the top 6 generally doesn't. Is that because of getting prices jacked up by foreign clubs? Possibly. Is it because they prefer to wait and see if the talent succeeds in better leagues first? Possibly.

Either way, that's the market right now for top 6 teams.

Sounds like you're easily confused to be fair. You started off saying it would cost too much to buy a midfielder who can move the dial and we should spend €20mn on Sabitzer as a back up midfielder when our starting midfield clearly needs an upgrade. I pointed out two easily attainable midfielders that went for a combined fee of less than €30mn, one of whom has since starred in a world cup winning side and the other one of whom is now a highly sought after midfielder star. Both would have upgraded United's midfield.

Then you bizarrely claimed that top six clubs don't sign directly from those leagues unless they've had a run a higher level and I pointed out plenty of players including Julian Alvarez and Caicedo, who United tried to sign but also included Andrey Santos and could indeed have used Gabriel Jesus and Gabriel Martinelli. Again, you were wrong but it didn't stop you moving the goalposts by saying that Alvarez only played 7 games in the league and some nonsense about Andrey Santos not playing for them immediately after purchase even though that is neither here nor there and in the Alvarez case ignores that the best striker in the world plays in his position. Andre Santos couldn't get a work permit by the way so that's why he's still on loan until he meets the criterial

 

[daba]

Mate you're making me cross eyed with your nonsense. Brighton are the only team around the top 6 who seem to find foreign players for 20 mill and slot them into their starting 11 and get great success. The traditional top 6 generally don't. You gave me Alvarez as an example of those who do. Hes started 7 games in the league and came off the bench 16 times. He could well be a top talent one day but right now hes not a starter. Andrey Santos as another example, he's not even in the country yet. Even though he's now legal age for transfer,, he's still on loan in Brazil.

You tried to use Real and Barce as an example of teams who find 20 mill players and put them in the starting 11. Instead they spent huge sums on what they thought were generational talent. Still doesn't answer my statement that the top 6 generally doesn't. Is that because of getting prices jacked up by foreign clubs? Possibly. Is it because they prefer to wait and see if the talent succeeds in better leagues first? Possibly.

Either way, that's the market right now for top 6 teams.

Sounds like you're easily confused to be fair. You started off saying it would cost too much to buy a midfielder who can move the dial and we should spend €20mn on Sabitzer as a back up midfielder when our starting midfield clearly needs an upgrade. I pointed out two easily attainable midfielders that went for a combined fee of less than €30mn, one of whom has since starred in a world cup winning side and the other one of whom is now a highly sought after midfielder star. Both would have upgraded United's midfield.

Then you bizarrely claimed that top six clubs don't sign directly from those leagues unless they've had a run a higher level and I pointed out plenty of players including Julian Alvarez and Caicedo, who United tried to sign but also included Andrey Santos and could indeed have used Gabriel Jesus and Gabriel Martinelli. Again, you were wrong but it didn't stop you moving the goalposts by saying that Alvarez only played 7 games in the league and some nonsense about Andrey Santos not playing for them immediately after purchase even though that is neither here nor there and in the Alvarez case ignores that the best striker in the world plays in his position. Andre Santos couldn't get a work permit by the way so that's why he's still on loan until he meets the criterial

Something that is worth adding to this argument (?) is that there is a trend with modern players themselves now wanting to take a stepping stone before making the jump to top top club.

Most likely because top top clubs took the piss for so many years and wasted a lot of talent, prime example / worst culprit being Chelsea. So now players are often seeing clubs like Brighton or teams in other European leagues (eg. Dortmund) as stepping stones to top Prem clubs or Barca/Real, where they can get a better guarantee of playing time and will more likely shine around middle of the road players.

It’s not impossible to attract these players like you see with Madrid and Man City recently attracting top South American talents. Utd in particular needs to get better at pitching to players, which over the past few years has been an issue due to our dated facilities, lack of a stable project, lack of a strong manager who can attract players, and a god awful leadership team who compared to our rivals clearly had no clue. Moving forward I hope things will improve, we have new leadership and a new footballing structure, one of the best managers in the world, hopefully some improvements at the training ground and hopefully new owners that can give us a clear runway to becoming the pinnacle of football in this country again.

Until we sort that out though, we’re going to struggle to attract the best youngsters to join us and will keep losing to Man City, Real, Barca etc.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Sounds like you're easily confused to be fair. You started off saying it would cost too much to buy a midfielder who can move the dial and we should spend €20mn on Sabitzer as a back up midfielder when our starting midfield clearly needs an upgrade. I pointed out two easily attainable midfielders that went for a combined fee of less than €30mn, one of whom has since starred in a world cup winning side and the other one of whom is now a highly sought after midfielder star. Both would have upgraded United's midfield.

Then you bizarrely claimed that top six clubs don't sign directly from those leagues unless they've had a run a higher level and I pointed out plenty of players including Julian Alvarez and Caicedo, who United tried to sign but also included Andrey Santos and could indeed have used Gabriel Jesus and Gabriel Martinelli. Again, you were wrong but it didn't stop you moving the goalposts by saying that Alvarez only played 7 games in the league and some nonsense about Andrey Santos not playing for them immediately after purchase even though that is neither here nor there and in the Alvarez case ignores that the best striker in the world plays in his position. Andre Santos couldn't get a work permit by the way so that's why he's still on loan until he meets the criterial

The two easily attained midfielders were purchased by non top 6 clubs because top 6 clubs were too afraid to make the commitment. Wrongly afraid, but still afraid. Instead they waited for them to succeed elsewhere. Enzo perfect example, Caicedo likely the same. Julian Alvarez doesn't change that fact. City aren't relying on him to start games, as you say, they've bought the best striker in the world. They can sit on Enzo for years until Haaland leaves. By then he will be ready to be a starting number 9.

We will likely spend big when we do want to improve on our midfield because that's how the market has been for us. We are linked to MacAllister today. If we are to buy him it'll be an outrageous figure.

 

[Rozay]

Yunus Musah is class I think.

 

[Alfie092]

Paul Pogba.

 

[L1nk]

Khephren Thuram, should be number 1 on our list this summer.

 

[croadyman]

I stll think that Kokcu from Feyenoord is a fantastic player, can play 6 or 8. Also Wieffer is going to ba fantastic midfielder.
PS I'm not a Feyenoord supporter.( I spport United and Ajax)

Would like him/Lavia and Bennacer/Caicedo

 

[Lee565]

Coming round to rabiot, he seems to have got on with business without no drama at juventus and has had a brilliant season and he is free in the summer, problem solved for nothing

 

[V.O.]

Coming round to rabiot, he seems to have got on with business without no drama at juventus and has had a brilliant season and he is free in the summer, problem solved for nothing

I have a strong suspicion that contract expiring Rabiot and cushy new deal Rabiot aren't the same player.

 

[Isotope]

Isn't Neves' contract up this Summer?

I wouldn't be too disappointed if we go for him. He's at the right age of 26 also.

Obviously the world cup Rabiot is the dream, but I don't know about his quality for his CLub.

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Given our ties to Sporting, Ugarte would make a great understudy to Casemiro

 

[daba]

Given our ties to Sporting, Ugarte would make a great understudy to Casemiro

If Brighton are asking for silly money for Caicedo then I think Ugarte makes sense. Probably less capable than Caicedo as an 8 but defensively he looks incredible.

Casemiro and Ugarte as a base behind Bruno would be so solid.