Kante is like Fred (obviously much better). Not a number 6, better alongside someone that holds the fort while they are left to do their thing like a dog after a bone
Midfielders who can play as no 6/no 8
- Thread starter croadyman
- Start date
Yeah despite last summers shenanigans we should be looking at maybe Rabiot and keeping Sabitzer or does that not offer enough
Someone of their irks. Like what EtH want FdJ. We really dont have someone press resistence for years now when other top clubs having 1 or multiple.
Some interesting suggestions so let's just hope the club is looking to sign one of them
Don’t think Man Utd Koné has been mentioned yet.
Well there aren't many 6s left then. I mean there aren't a lot of purely defensive midfielders anymore most contribute to the build up play.
I always imagine an 8 being like Kroos not Kante for example.
What was Kante's when paired with Pogba?
For France he was a 6 but it's not his best role.
Outside of elite Football there are plenty but in top teams, it's fairly uncommon. It's like traditional 10s.
You would hope so. We ideally need a mobile 8, who is press resistant and can still pass between the lines from deep. We have an opportunity to be creative since our no 1 target FDJ, is unlikely to be available
I feel like these days most guys are fairly specialised. Invariably they are great at one position and they "do a job" in the other. At the top level those small margins of not having a top performer in a key position can be exploited or can be costly over the course of a season.
Valverde obtainable, hmmm don't see it.
I feel like there's some confusion with terminology here. Most are making the distinction between a midfielder who sits in the base of the midfield (a #6) or one who roams/box to box (#8). However my understanding is it's not necessarily one or the other--a 6 doesn't always have to be a defensive midfielder or an 8 always a more attacking player. You can have playmaking sitting midfielders (late stage Pirlo), ball-winning sitting midfielders (Makelele), roaming attacking players (Pogba), roaming ball-winners (Kante), or all purpose roaming midfielders (Keane, Vieira), or any combination of the above.
The 6 is a defensive midfielder and the 8 is a "linking" midfielder. Those terms designate roles not areas of play, a deep lying playmaker isn't a 6, it's a deep lying playmaker. A deep lying playmaker would be the modern version of a traditional 10.
No one said attacking 8, not all 8s are soley attacking. Also one of his great strengths is his ability to transition the play from defence to attack. Hes always been an 8 in my eyes
Well that's true. It could work like a charm.
I remember when Bayern had Schweinsteiger and Martinez at the base of 4-2-3-1. Best Bayern's I've seen in recent decade. They both were such a well rounded footballers, it's hard to term them as a 6 or 8, as both did the job equally excellent. Well, probably Martinez was more defensive than Schweni.
If I were ten Hag, I'd look for that kind of partnership for Casemiro.
Frenkie 
(Sorry, I had to!)
(Sorry, I had to!
)Also, big admirer of Bayern's Goretzka. I think he fits the OP's bill.
I think Kimmich is closer to a 6/8 than Goretzka. There is also Brozovic?
Its just using the numbers to make the roles better understand. 6 nowadays are for more defensive mid (they can still be good at what an 8 is. 8 is for linking the mid to attack (passing, ball carrying...etc). Playmakers is just to making play be them deep or roaming but still clubs prefer to have 3 definitive roles for their midfied areas. Its best to have players that can play equally good at both 6 and 8 but those are rare nowadays.
Pretty much this. People just think b/c he's great at winning the ball he's a holding midfielder when he really does his best work higher up the pitch.
A 6 is essentially a holding midfielder that rarely gets forward. They can be playmaking (think Pirlo at Juve) or defensive (Makélélé). At least, that's how I understand it.
The issue we have is the players we have tried to use as a 6 like Fred and Mctominay completely lack any of the fundamentals to play the role effectively.
I’m sure there are players who may not play as a 6 regularly who could do a job just by having some football intelligence, positional sense and making themselves available for a pass.
I’m sure there are players who may not play as a 6 regularly who could do a job just by having some football intelligence, positional sense and making themselves available for a pass.
Pirlo wouldn't be described with a number and his role isn't described by a number. Pirlo's role would be a regista if it's an italian talking about him, a meneur de jeu in french or a deep lying playmaker for an english speaker. But not a 6.
At the end of the day people should keep in mind that those terms are cultural and aren't meant to be universally used. In fact older people, and there are some in here, will use the WM numbering instead of the 442.
I've seen a regista classified as a 6 or an 8 before, but I'm no expert.
I'm not familiar with Brozovic. But yeah, was thinking about Kimmich also as perhaps the better 6/8. I just like Goretzka style more (before all those injuries).
Carrick was transformed from 8 to 6 flawlessly. Many greats in the past moved back to take defensive role as age catching up. You're right that intelligent players could make it work.
It's neither. The role of regista is pretty old it comes from the 235 formation, in that context a regista would be a 5, it's the center half in the "3". The roles of 6/8 that we are talking about are from the 442 formation and there are no regista in it.
In my opinion the roles that are between multiple generations shouldn't be numbered especially when their use hasn't be continuous. It's like inside forwards, in their original context those are 7s and 8s but no one will understand if you use those numbers, inside forward makes a lot more sense.
Keeping in mind that we will be looking to splash the cash on a striker* this summer** I think we will need to find more reasonably priced options for all other areas of need. That means looking to buy from outside the premier league (I would love Douglas Luiz or Ramsay from Villa, or Caicedo, or hell maybe even Palhina from Fulham, but they would all be insanely expensive and would destroy the budget) and of course, no English players (which means no Rice). Also, Frenkie would be an amazing buy and would instantly improve us significantly, but he obviously has no desire to come and I really hope we leave that alone and move on.
Of those that are left my main target would be Ugarte. We have done good business with Sporting before, he's young, he's Uruguayan (can never have enough warriors in your squad) and he was quality against Arsenal at the Emirates.
Other alternatives:
Max Caqueret from Lyon could be a good option, despite Lyon typically being savy when selling their assets.
Southampton will no longer be a premier league team of course so maybe Lavia could be got for a reasonable fee.
Ditto for Forrest, and I would take a look at Danilo there as a younger, potentially much better version of Fred. And even though he has been playing higher up the pitch for them recently, I think Gibbs-White could be an excellent number 8.
If Everton keep losing, I think Onana could be a good option as an all-arounder number 8.
*a proper number 9, just to keep up the numerology theme
**hopefully, unless the Glazers decide to completely screw us over for a second straight transfer window
Of those that are left my main target would be Ugarte. We have done good business with Sporting before, he's young, he's Uruguayan (can never have enough warriors in your squad) and he was quality against Arsenal at the Emirates.
Other alternatives:
Max Caqueret from Lyon could be a good option, despite Lyon typically being savy when selling their assets.
Southampton will no longer be a premier league team of course so maybe Lavia could be got for a reasonable fee.
Ditto for Forrest, and I would take a look at Danilo there as a younger, potentially much better version of Fred. And even though he has been playing higher up the pitch for them recently, I think Gibbs-White could be an excellent number 8.
If Everton keep losing, I think Onana could be a good option as an all-arounder number 8.
*a proper number 9, just to keep up the numerology theme
**hopefully, unless the Glazers decide to completely screw us over for a second straight transfer window
Think the same was said about Casemiro wasn’t it ? Valverde is often played out of position at right wing to accommodate others in the same way Matuidi was for France and with Tchouameni and Camavinga already there whilst Real are chasing Bellingham and Kroos and Modric still there it’s conceivable Valverde could be bought.
I always saw most 442s centre midfielders as taking in turns to cover what you call as the 6 and the 8. And I think it's still possible to be successful with two players swapping the roles. Keane in his younger years was well capable of playing both roles. I always saw Kimmich and Goretzka as sharing the roles.
Ibrahim Sangare
Just read the thread from the top and was amazed nobody had mentioned Carrick until you.
A deep lying playmaker with some defensive duties. Not all 6s are the same, but that doesn’t mean Carrick wasn’t one. His sort aren’t terribly common, but it’s great to have one.
For all his positional brilliance, I’m not sure Rice has enough about him to fit in at United. Though Nobby Stiles was ok
Just read the thread from the top and was amazed nobody had mentioned Carrick until you.
A deep lying playmaker with some defensive duties. Not all 6s are the same, but that doesn’t mean Carrick wasn’t one. His sort aren’t terribly common, but it’s great to have one.
For all his positional brilliance, I’m not sure Rice has enough about him to fit in at United. Though Nobby Stiles was ok
Isn't the OP talking about current players, though?
I'd say Caicedo because his mobility makes him solid as an 8 and he's good as a 6. Lobotka is playing as as 6 but is a fairly conventional #8, so a passer can work if you have a good system for it and a physical worker like Anguissa in front of him, which Eriksen isn't.
It's fashionable to say Rice can't because he's too clumsy and doesn't get open enough off the ball, which is fair, but I remember some video where some England players said he was technically the best player on the team, he would be a presence in the opposing box on crosses and ghosting in and he can dribble, so maybe leaving Moyes and getting better coaching would turn him into a Goretzka type, which isn't perfect but isn't horrible either. If he was eager to join and open to being a fancier O'Shea/Phil Neville for us and replacing McTominay, Maguire and Fred in one player that would be ideal I think. Backing up Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen, then sign someone like Mac Allister to back up Bruno and compete with Eriksen and that's your 5 mids (Bruno, Eriksen, Mac Allister, Casemiro, Rice) and go cheap and young and high potential at RCB to replace Maguire.
Some other plausible options:
Locatelli - Good all-around midfielder, hasn't lit the world on fire at Juve but only 25
Koopmeiners - I haven't seen much but he's Dutch and has played as a 6 and scores goals as an 8. Maybe would struggle defensively as a 6 in the Prem? Low passing percentage, though Atalanta play quick and direct typically with 3 at the back so one less player to pass it forward to for a deeper mid.
Brozovic - Great as a 6, got benched this year so might be gettable, can pass well enough to play as an 8 in a double pivot with Casemiro and we'd have a ton of nous and leadership in the middle of the park.
Merino - Haven't seen much but seems to be highly rated, don't think he'd be cheap, though maybe a swap would work here with someone like Pellistri taking 15M off the price?
It's fashionable to say Rice can't because he's too clumsy and doesn't get open enough off the ball, which is fair, but I remember some video where some England players said he was technically the best player on the team, he would be a presence in the opposing box on crosses and ghosting in and he can dribble, so maybe leaving Moyes and getting better coaching would turn him into a Goretzka type, which isn't perfect but isn't horrible either. If he was eager to join and open to being a fancier O'Shea/Phil Neville for us and replacing McTominay, Maguire and Fred in one player that would be ideal I think. Backing up Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen, then sign someone like Mac Allister to back up Bruno and compete with Eriksen and that's your 5 mids (Bruno, Eriksen, Mac Allister, Casemiro, Rice) and go cheap and young and high potential at RCB to replace Maguire.
Some other plausible options:
Locatelli - Good all-around midfielder, hasn't lit the world on fire at Juve but only 25
Koopmeiners - I haven't seen much but he's Dutch and has played as a 6 and scores goals as an 8. Maybe would struggle defensively as a 6 in the Prem? Low passing percentage, though Atalanta play quick and direct typically with 3 at the back so one less player to pass it forward to for a deeper mid.
Brozovic - Great as a 6, got benched this year so might be gettable, can pass well enough to play as an 8 in a double pivot with Casemiro and we'd have a ton of nous and leadership in the middle of the park.
Merino - Haven't seen much but seems to be highly rated, don't think he'd be cheap, though maybe a swap would work here with someone like Pellistri taking 15M off the price?
Jens Cajuste
The term regista is mostly used for a CDM with flair. Haha at least all the ones I have heard under that term have those qualities.
He is, but the discussion quickly turned to comparisons of former players as well. Makélélé, Keane, Scholes…
Yeah they always cover for each other, but you tend to have 1 who roams a lot more to link up and create while the other tends to cover more. Keane and Scholes the obvious one, Keane was capable of pushing forward just as Casemiro is, but it's not his main strength, and you wouldn't buy him to do that. You get them for the control and the positional solidity, organizing everything in which theyre the best in the world, and then he can provide bits of attacking quality when he needs to. If he's used exclusively as a more creative mid, where he needs to roam and transition, then they likely wouldn't be elite midfielders. Can do it to a decent level, but not to a CL winner level like they can their #6 role. That's the key thing - the elite teams need players who can play in their specific role to an elite level, and then fill in during matches when required in others to cover when another was somewhere else.
Ahh, I see.