Did anyone say that or were fans of Lee not accused of being pretentious from the off?
And everything said in defence has been twisted to back up the accustation? I would never have mentioned sophistication discussing Lee in any other conversation.
Michael McIntyre vs Stewart Lee
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Did anyone say that or were fans of Lee not accused of being pretentious from the off?
And everything said in defence has been twisted to back up the accustation? I would never have mentioned sophistication discussing Lee in any other conversation.
Well that's what started it then.
I think the implication is more that he's an acquired taste, the intelligence is bollox, he's gags are more complex than most but it's still not nuclear physics.
TO be fair moses, all the early comments were about Lee himself rather than his fans...
I think I started the focus on his fans by saying
That has been my experience, but thats not me saying "anyone who likes him only does so to appear intelligent".
I'm sure lots of people who don't like him don't get him, but thats not to say everyone that doesn't like him doesn't get him....
I think I started the focus on his fans by saying
That has been my experience, but thats not me saying "anyone who likes him only does so to appear intelligent".
I'm sure lots of people who don't like him don't get him, but thats not to say everyone that doesn't like him doesn't get him....
Without going back through the thread it seems to me that some people are taking the view that those who don't like Lee don't like him because of some perceived shortcoming on their part, not for simple reasons of taste or quality.
Personally I don't agree with the suggestion that Lee fans are pretentious or whatever else (of course some of them will be, but I doubt that's down to Stewart Lee) which is why I'm not really inclined to deal with that any further than I already have. And I'm certainly not twisting anything as I'm only dipping in and out of the 'argument'.
I wasn't asking you to. Just pointing out that something you were so adamant was the joke, wasn't actually the joke at all.
This thread seems to now be a debate about something else entirely though.
Hands up who likes both Michael McIntyre and Stewart Lee?
I go to watch a lot of comedians and I don't have a particular preference. For me a night watching Dylan Moran is different, but just as funny as the more mainstream ones like McIntyre, Jimmy Carr etc. I've only ever come away from 2 shows really dissapointed...Frankie Boyle and Stewart Lee. They just weren't funny.
feck sake, I didn't put a massive amount of thought into recalling it accurately.
The point I was making is its a three line joke but it goes on too long to make me laugh..... (now this will probably turn into 5 pages of debate as to whether its a 3 or 5 line joke)
I think the first paragraph is only some perversion of a defence of a preceived slight. For me anyway.
I like Lee and I do like his imaginative approach, but that says nowt about anyone else's intelligence. How you spend your leisure time is a poor indication of intelligence, as most of us get wrecked in some form or other.
feck sake, I didn't put a massive amount of thought into recalling it accurately.
The point I was making is its a three line joke but it goes on too long to make me laugh..... (now this will probably turn into 5 pages of debate as to whether its a 3 or 5 line joke)
Well, it lasts about a minute. There's no debate to be had there you can see it on Youtube.
Its about 40 seconds too long (IMO).... christ pedants make me want to slit my throat.
I dont dislike Lee because of this joke, I was using is as an example of his style, which I dont find funny.
I dont dislike Lee because of this joke, I was using is as an example of his style, which I dont find funny.
Not sure what you're getting at here.
I know what you're saying though - his style can work against him.
Personally I find that when he has a good idea or theme to work with it then this slow build up helps but when he doesn't...my God it drags. That bit about rappers from the first series of Comedy Vehicle was excrutiating to watch.
The accusations on smugness came in first and out of nowhere, and any attempts to explain / dispel them have been twisted. I wan't aware of the dislke for Lee or the connotations of liking him. For example I like him because he's IMO opinion a breath of fresh air in his approach and delivery, unlike all the other dross in TV like Eastenders, X Factor and Michael McIntyre. But Pogue took this as me saying anyone who doesn't like Lee must like Eastenders.
It's like being 16 again and being accused of being up oneself for liking the Smiths and then any explanation of why one does being used to confirm you are.
Anyway I'm off for the day, some of you thick twats should read a few books then watch Lee again.
As I said I haven't suggested that so I'm not going to waste my time by defending myself against it or any connotations that go with it. I'm simply taking issue with those people who aren't explaining why they like him rather telling us why we don't like him.
moses is off to stock up on black & white french movies and olvies...
It's spelled olives, you uneducated cretin.
Ok, I admit it, I really want to like Stewart Lee but, well I just cant figure out how to use the Sky box...
I think one big problem for people trying to get into Stewart Lee now is that a lot of his stuff has become endlessly self-referential, such as the Librarian routine which is built almost entirely around his popular perception. In addition he has a big focus on his relationship with his pre-existing audience. The best episodes of Comedy Vehicle (to me anyway) were heavily dependent on this, and constantly featured him alternately mocking, critiquing and sarcastically congratulating his audience. This all came to a head in the David Cameron routine, which I'd rather not spoil, but essentially is an outright attack on his fans. That's part of what makes him so impressive to me (and others), he's a highly technically accomplished stand-up who has decided to do something very different and, as his popular perception shows, rather risky.
By far the most representative example of exactly what Stewart Lee now is, is the fourth episode of the recent series (I'd also say it's the best) and if you don't like it then I just don't think you'll ever be a fan:
Now I'm off to start a thread on The Tree of Life, so as to take the theme of this thread and really run in it into the fecking ground.
By far the most representative example of exactly what Stewart Lee now is, is the fourth episode of the recent series (I'd also say it's the best) and if you don't like it then I just don't think you'll ever be a fan:
Now I'm off to start a thread on The Tree of Life, so as to take the theme of this thread and really run in it into the fecking ground.
I've made no such assumption. Anyway, feel free to continue flinging faeces in my direction, but I'm pretty much done with this petty squabbling.
Took me a while to get Stewart Lee but I think his show is brilliant now and he's one of only 2 comedians in recent years to truly make me laugh out loud. At first though I thought he was up his own arse until i realised that was the delivery style. McIntyre though is shit.
"Oooooh look at me, I'm a Stewart Lee fan and I'm too intelligent to argue with the likes of you."
So smug and pretentious.
Clearly you have. I'll leave it at that.
That'll be the massive assumption I alluded to. Please carry on contradicting yourself though.
I have laughed at both, but then most things make me laugh. I really like Stewart Lee but can also tolerate watching a Michael McIntyre routine with others even if it isn't what I find particularly funny.
My favourite British comedians would be Ross Noble, Stewart Lee, Sean Lock, Richard Herring and Harry Hill.
Fair enough, I misremembered and thought the overall tone of that post was that you didn't feel like having to think much when having a laugh. That may or may not be implied in your not "wanting to work", but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (and no, that's not be thinking smugly that I'm magnanimous... just covering any negative misreadings of this post that might ensue).
The reason I flung that insult at you was probably more out of mild annoyance than anything else, seeing as I really didn't feel like engaging in this petty squabble but didn't feel like not clarifying what I meant by my posts and what I was referring to either.
I can't stand Michael McIntyre. I just can't. I can't look at him, or hear his voice, he is the most annoying human of all time.
That's quite a diverse list. I like all of them but Noble and Harry Hill's a bit hit-and-miss at times.
EDIT: Other than Lee, obviously.
If the comedy is that clever, and by that I mean well written, then you don't need to work to enjoy it. Nothing to do with stretching your mind. The point was made that if I'm not enjoying something then I don't really want to watch for an age for something I don't find funny. That's what was meant by work.
Your posts were filled with arrogance and assumptions and when I point them out to you you can't be bothered engaging in petty squables? You seemed happy enough previously.
I can watch McIntyre once, then he keeps repeating the same jokes and I want to hit him, I'm very much a fan of Lee.
I concur.
Likewise, Sir... I accept that I was wrong to assume and you go "missed a spot".
You were trying to pedantically meander your way out of what is usually taken to be implied by "if that's what his comedy is like then I'll stick with McIntyre", which is that you haven't seen enough to know for yourself, but going by that example I'm not going to bother giving him a chance for myself. You might disagree, and that's fine, but that's how I read it and it's easy for posts to be misread.
I'll go along with that I've been a tad arrogant, but you've been no more inclined to meet in the middle, only being interested in proving yourself right even though I've tried to furnish you with what caused me to interpret your post as I did.
In the last few posts I've neverminded the sarcasm and whatnot and have been quite upfront and am looking to bury this stupid argument. My first insult was that you're being a bit rubbish, which is a bit of a rubbish insult, IMO... It wasn't meant to be horrendously scathing, it was meant to be a mild silly way of going "I disagree". I'm sorry about my role in it escalating.
If this won't suffice then there's nowt to be done.
There are surely more deserving targets of criticism than McIntyre though. For example, what about the mainstream, 'family' comics who desperately put-out 'blue' dvds each Christmas, in the hope of sales? What about the essentially-talentless comedians whose whole act relies on being controversial? At least McIntyre is what he is; and at least Lee appears to have the courage of his convictions.
There are, to be fair to McIntyre I think his main problem is over exposure... he's not great, not the worst I've ever seen either, but he's everywhere and winning awards... you have to think thats more to do with him being the darling of the moment rather than his actual talent.
McIntyre is selling out arenas. As such, he has a much higher profile than any of those other comedians you refer to, with all the focus on his talent (or lack thereof) that comes with that sort of exposure.
When people say that they hate Take That, I don't doubt for a moment that there are less talented bands out there but that's not really the point.
Bang bang.
That's it, and of course there are going to be comedians who are far worse, but it's the combination of his ridiculous exposure, and his lack of anything remotely human. We should have a world poll on him, with all the options being execution.
But that was always going to be the case though - he's seen as a safe option by mainstream tv, therefore he'll get more exposure than 'niche' comedians. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of success over ability (a running theme in contemporary culture).
McIntyre's success can be explained by the following (somewhat crap) analogy of mine: my town centre now consists of two big-name supermarkets (and no others); big-name banks (and no others); no independent record shops (there's only the likes of Asda for that). These companies are only going to offer the public mainstream stuff and, therefore, mainstream stuff is all that sells. This doesn't equate to popularity though - the public, in effect, have little or no choice in what they buy. We're always being told (as in the case of the News of the World, The Sun etc) that 'this trash is what the public wants'; this is a useful lie for certain parties as, increasingly, the public has very little choice.
It is also important to remember that he is a complete wanker. I feel this can not be stated enough.
...and he's a sell-out. But that goes with the territory - it's genuinely hard to think of anyone who's risen to the top, in any area of showbusiness, who's not been obliged to compromise in some way. They all, sooner or later, have to play the game; and that game has always been under the control of big business. The alternative is obscurity.