Michael Keane

I wouldn't call Keane a cert to make it at United. We're likely to still have Jones, Smalling and Evans still at the club while I would be very surprised if we didn't add in another young promising centre half like Zouma into the club in the next summer or the year after as well.
 
Genius Me! said:
not the strongest Chelsea side mind but strong nevertheless.
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Chelsea finished the game with Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Ramires, Sturridge and Moses as their attacking players, while we had Fletcher at right back, Rafael at left back and Wootton (who'd lost his head at some point in the last 10 minutes of the game) and Keane trying to hold it all together playing at Stamford Bridge- one of the hardest away venues in the country. Keane did extremely well under the circumstances.
 
I'm not saying Keane is terrible by any means at all. I was just disagreeing with the 'he looked at home in the first team' statement. I think he needs maybe another year in the Championship and a Year in the Premiership before he'd look close to being 'at home' in our back four.

Yes he was the better of the Pair in both games he played, Wooton was terrible. The point is he's not close to challenging Jones, Smalling or Evans for a place in the first XI
 
He's about as good as Jones was last year in central defence, but with better reading of the game and composure and sadly less pace (while being quite a bit taller). He doesn't have the versatility of Jones so I suspect you are right, if Leicester get promoted it would be ideal to loan him back to them next year.

Wouldn't surprise me with how quick his progression has been over the last 3 years if he comes back so good we want to keep him though. (Especially if Rio leaves and since Vidic is getting older and having injury problems)
 
But no one said he's close to challenging them right now. The rest of the season in the championship, a full year loan in the PL next season and he should be ready to be a contender for a squad place the season after.

But I still maintain that he looked at home, he had so much composure and seemed to get better as the game went on.
 
Genius Me! said:
But no one said he's close to challenging them right now. The rest of the season in the championship, a full year loan in the PL next season and he should be ready to be a contender for a squad place the season after.

But I still maintain that he looked at home, he had so much composure and seemed to get better as the game went on.
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I saw that too, when Wootton went to pieces Keane seemed to decide to change the character of their defending, and started stepping up and out very early. There was a string of three or four good early tackles breaking up their moves before they had a chance to begin. In effect he was shielding Wootton, stopping the plays before they got to him. He had an otherwise mediocre game, but I thought that was an excellent sign.

For his sake I hope Leicester get promoted. It's exactly what you'd want for the lad, a Championship loan followed by a Premier League loan, except that he won't have to go to a new club, a new place, and gel with a whole new squad.
 
But fwiw, if he was at the club now and we had another defensive crisis I wouldn't feel uncomfortable seeing him slot in and I'd rather see him at the back than Carrick.
 
Brightonian said:
For his sake I hope Leicester get promoted. It's exactly what you'd want for the lad, a Championship loan followed by a Premier League loan, except that he won't have to go to a new club, a new place, and gel with a whole new squad.
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Yes that would be a perfect situation for him to be back out on loan in a familiar setting but at a higher level next year.
 
Brightonian said:
I saw that too, when Wootton went to pieces Keane seemed to decide to change the character of their defending, and started stepping up and out very early. There was a string of three or four good early tackles breaking up their moves before they had a chance to begin. In effect he was shielding Wootton, stopping the plays before they got to him. He had an otherwise mediocre game, but I thought that was an excellent sign.

For his sake I hope Leicester get promoted. It's exactly what you'd want for the lad, a Championship loan followed by a Premier League loan, except that he won't have to go to a new club, a new place, and gel with a whole new squad.
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Yeah exactly, he really stepped up the way you'd expect an experienced leader to do so. For me he's a much better prospect than Wootton and with his loan experiences he's going to be some player I reckon.

In his age range, excluding Smalling and Jones, how many look better prospects right now? English defenders I mean who are yet to be first team players.
 
I agree he is not the quickest, but I don't think we should dwell on that. Terry, Vidic and Carragher were never quick and they turned out pretty well. Like them, he seems to read the game well.
 
Surprised he hasn't been picked for England u21s. Players like Craig Dawson and Tom Lees may have more experience of first team football at the moment but its obvious they are not as talented.
 
But ultimately, Pearce has to pick the side he thinks will get him the results he needs, at least in competitive games. There's a world of diference between a talented kid who has a handful of first team appearances and someone who has played over a hundred full games for their club. Not only that, but you can't expect the England agegroup coaches to watch every single u21 and u18 game. And that's not even to mention that the other lads mentioned have a good couple of years on Keane.

There are many, many things to castigate Pearce for, but leaving M. Keane out of u21 squads is not one of them.
 
He has been playing for the England U19's no ? Will Keane was picked up for the U21's at the age of 18 without any competitive experience.
 
I'm sure Keane will be in the u21 squad soon enough. Him and Jones at the back would be a good combination even though Jones is advancing beyond that now.

Anyway anyone watching the match?
 
Hardly been tested but composed as always. One very good pass with his left peg.
 
the England u-21s is a development squad for the senior England side, picking 22 year olds (some of which turn 23 in a few months) at the expense of one of your most promising 20 year olds (who isn't even in the u-19s squad) is not the best way to breed the best quality future international players.
 
I totally disagree. I think the best players should be in the squad, and Dawson and Lees are better picks than Keane right now. They both have over 100 senior apps (well Dawson has 90 odd so near enough) and 2 years on Keane. Keane's time will come though. And the other thing to factor in is that Keane has come on a lot very fast, this time last year he wouldn't have been named as a guaranteed starter for United u21s, never mind England.
 
Made one error while defending a corner when he allowed the attacker a good heading oppurtunity, as he sold him by breaking his run but has been composed and good otherwise.
 
In two years time, at Keane's rate of progression he should be pushing for the senior squad but will have less international experience than he should have because backwards minded people decided that since Ryan Bennett and Tom Lees are better at the moment, while they will likely not be as good as him at that time.

It is a development squad for the senior side, or at least it should be. Picking 'the best players' always discriminates against the players who physically matured slower and often undermines the experience of your best technical players.
 
samabachan said:
I totally disagree. I think the best players should be in the squad, and Dawson and Lees are better picks than Keane right now. They both have over 100 senior apps (well Dawson has 90 odd so near enough) and 2 years on Keane. Keane's time will come though. And the other thing to factor in is that Keane has come on a lot very fast, this time last year he wouldn't have been named as a guaranteed starter for United u21s, never mind England.
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Keane was a permanent fixture at CB in our reserves this time last year. He cemented his place in pre-season and never looked back.

I see what your saying though and your right but shouldn't development be more important than results at u21 level. Isn't that the point? I'm no expert but its clear to me that Keane will go on to be a better CB than Lees or Dawson, who are both committed but have very little technical ability. Shouldn't we afford him experience at international level now to help his development, rather than Pearce's CV.

Also I think the English coaches should be watching all u21 football in this country because that is their job afterall.
 
Well I don't think, at least at the moment, that the difference between Keane and the others is particularly clear cut. Yes, Keane is promising but any number of things can happen in the next 2-3 years which could alter that, whereas the other players have enough senior apps that you can say how they are and will turn out as a player. Also, referring to Keane in our u21s last season, you can't pick a player because he looks half decent in the u21s league and has had 8/10 decent games, and because he plays for Man United.

And there is a limit to how much you can shoot for development and how much for results right now. What's the benefit of picking the players you think will have the best impact at senior level if they're just not ready yet and the team ends up, say, not qualifying for the finals of tournaments because of inexperience in 2-3 positions which costs silly goals? Then nobody learns anything. Assuming, say, 2-3 players from any u21 intake will push for regular places in the senior squad at some time in their career, is it better to have the team not qualify for big finals because the team selected is inexperienced, so those 2-3 players don't get the benefit of playing in major finals, or is it better that a few journeymen get the spots and the team is much stronger for it?

Please don't misunderstand me, I think Keane should and will push for an u21 place now, but you can hardly mock Pearce for not having considered him sooner. Much better to criticise him for playing a turd 4-5-1, focused on the big man up front and hoofing long, and playing Michael fecking Mancienne in midfield in about 3 consecutive tournaments.
 
At least all those games Stuart Pearce gave the then 22/23 year old Michael Mancienne managed to make him into a decent enough player.. if not for England yet.. how nice for him.
 
Good result for Leicester with a not so great performance though.

Keane probably had his weakest game there today. Made 2/3 errors, one of which could have been pretty big but his potential still shows. Reads the game very well and is pretty good on the ball.

Doesn't like getting sucked out wide and can be a bit soft at times. Almost like Evans at that stage.
 
Played well tonight. Some good tackles, interceptions and headers. He also recycles possession very well. His positioning was excellent.

Lost his man at a set-piece and as Cevno said he was beat in wider areas a couple times, once down to being out-muscled and the other time he was a bit unlucky, but apart from that he cruised through the game.

Impressive that he's playing in the best defence in the championship. Helps that his CB partner Morgan is a beast.
 
Cevno said:
Good result for Leicester with a not so great performance though.

Keane probably had his weakest game there today. Made 2/3 errors, one of which could have been pretty big but his potential still shows. Reads the game very well and is pretty good on the ball.

Doesn't like getting sucked out wide and can be a bit soft at times. Almost like Evans at that stage.
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First game full game I've seen him and thought he was good. Agree with what you say about him being a bit weak at times but he only made one big error imo, when he was out-muscled.
 
Cevno said:
Good result for Leicester with a not so great performance though.

Keane probably had his weakest game there today. Made 2/3 errors, one of which could have been pretty big but his potential still shows. Reads the game very well and is pretty good on the ball.

Doesn't like getting sucked out wide and can be a bit soft at times. Almost like Evans at that stage.
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I'd say a young Pique is much better comparison in terms of what he needs to sort out. A bit leggy and lethargic in one-on-ones. Young, learning and very much still growing into his body.

All in all though, another good game.
 
he's in that awful in-between period for England - U19s > U21s. his time will come. next season for the U21s he'll be eligible.

to put it in perspective - when Phil Jones is in the 21s...how can anyone expect Keane to be?
 
Drainy said:
I'd say Keane is better in the air than Pique showed in his time at United.
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Don't tell me you're still upset about that header he missed at Bolton where Anelka scored the game winner all those years ago.

People were very hard on Pique when he was here, as I recall. I thought Pique was very good in the air, that's a bold statement.
 
gooDevil said:
Don't tell me you're still upset about that header he missed at Bolton where Anelka scored the game winner all those years ago.

People were very hard on Pique when he was here, as I recall. I thought Pique was very good in the air, that's a bold statement.
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I don't think Pique is actually particularly good in the air. Not a strong point at all.
 
mo0 said:
he's in that awful in-between period for England - U19s > U21s. his time will come. next season for the U21s he'll be eligible.

to put it in perspective - when Phil Jones is in the 21s...how can anyone expect Keane to be?
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As someone mentioned earlier, it hasn't heped that hehasn't been involved much at lower England age groups. Chalobah and Wisdom are in and around the squad despite similar levels of senior experience, but they have consistently been in England teams from about the age of 14-15 onwards due to their early development. Keane has been set back a lot as a late developer, and I suspect the fact he chose to play for Ireland agegroups when he wasn't getting an England look-in probably also counts against him somewhat.
 
i see your point.

the two you mentioned were the CB pairing for the U17 Euro side that won, with Nathaniel Chalobah being England's captain for many years - all at a younger age.

...plus, Will Keane was also part of the U21s pre-injury (+ part of that U17 cup winning team). there is a point that Wisdom is playing regularly in the Premier League and Chalobah has a full season behind him. Keane's biggest competition comes from experienced CBs in the Championship and one with more goals than most of the strikers!

still. a few games with Leicester shouldn't mean he is elevated.
 
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