[Mike09]

Wait, so you're saying give Carrick credit for finding space when he isn't being watched, marked or followed? Have a think about that and tell me why we are crediting him.

Being man marked is like being watched or followed one on one the whole time. Being pressed is different with being marked. When you are being marked just what we did to Pirlo then Pirlo and him became useless so the credit goes to the one who mark them because man mark someone isn't easy.

And who said Carrick can't find his space when being marked too? I remember Milner was assigned to man mark Carrick a few years back then when we faced city but Carrick was able to find his own space and got away from him.

You aren't giving a credit to the one who mark the players. It's not considered to be easy job and to me the role is very underrated.

 

[Raees]

So that means it's not an utter tosh when someone said a midfielder doesn't always need a dribbling skills or footwork skills to handle high pressure because there are different way such as strength which allows him to shield the ball effectively, quick one touch passings and ability to find your own space. Am i right with this?

There is no point debating with you because I recall your posts from last time which clearly missed the point time and time again. Yes a midfielder doesn't need dribbling skills to get out of the press every time he is pressed but it is absolutely essential he has it in his locker. Without that ability, you are very easy to target. The only way to avoid the press time and time again during the 90 minutes is to keep your opponent guessing by adopting different tactics each time you receive the ball.. keep dribbling you will get caught, stop moving off the ball you will get caught, hide and you are making it easy for the opposition. There are all manner of attributes a midfielder needs to be successful in beating a press, but not having footwork.. and saying that you can do other things to make up for that shortcoming is just plain silly. Every CDM worth his salt, has good footwork... Cambiassio, Busquets, Alonso. Even the likes of Keane and Ince for us, they were very nimble.. not the most skilful in terms of tricks but very tight control of the ball in tight spaces. Watch Nobby Stiles videos and you'll see even Nobby was very comfortable on the ball. In terms of passing, his range wasn't as good as a Carrick but in terms of dribbling ability, he was superior to Carrick who is very awkward for a supposedly elite bracket midfielder.

Bottom line is Carrick has two fatal flaws which make him vulnerable to the press, lack of footwork and lack of movement off the ball.

 

[Mike09]

I don't think he can handle being pressed very well when its applied in a certain way. I explained that above. Also with Carrick it isn't 1 or 2 games its something I have observed from him over a number of years. But I don't even mean it as a big deal and I'm not even bashing him. Just pointing out an observation. Its not a big deal I just think he has a small flaw in his game.

I have also explained it before that Carrick has his way to handle pressure but it seems this discussion is just going to around like circle so I'll end it.

 

[Mike09]

There is no point debating with you because I recall your posts from last time. Yes a midfielder doesn't need dribbling skills to get out of the press every time he is pressed but it is absolutely essential he has it in his locker. The only way to avoid the press time and time again during the 90 minutes is to keep your opponent guessing by adopting different tactics each time you receive the ball.. keep dribbling you will get caught, stop moving off the ball you will get caught, hide and you are making it easy for the opposition.

Bottom line is Carrick has two fatal flaws which make him vulnerable to the press, lack of footwork and lack of movement off the ball.

I just don't wanna repeat it again but I might make this post as my last reply if the discussion doesn't go further forward. Either you want to agree or disagree with my opinion it's up to you.
Carrick has weakness but at the same time he has some ability to cover this weakness.
He lacks of pace and not mobile but with a great positioning and ability to read the game well he's able to cover these weakness.
Carrick lacks of footwork skill and dribbling skill but with strength, one touch quick passing and his ability to find space allow him to cover these weakness.

 

[Raees]

I just don't wanna repeat it again but I might make this post as my last reply if the discussion doesn't go further forward.
Carrick has weakness but at the same time he has some ability to cover this weakness.
He lacks of pace and not mobile but with a great positioning and ability to read the game well he's able to covered this weakness.
Carrick lacks of footwork skill and dribbling skill but with strength, one touch quick passing and his ability to find space allow him to cover these weakness.

Yes but he hasn't covered his weaknesses has he? if you keep getting fecked over in games where you are being pressed, you clearly haven't managed to negate your weaknesses.

Where are these examples of Carrick managing to overcome his weakness and consistently performing in games where United are being pressed? What great positioning is this? he just hides and never gets in the right position to get the ball and the centre-backs end up having to bear the burden. Where is this quick one touch passing and ability to find space? I have never seen it over 90 minutes in a game where United are getting hounded from the opposition. From Scholes yes, but from Carrick? what planet are you living on.

I am telling you now, once United find a replacement everyone will see just how much our game can go up a level with a proper courageous CDM who knows how to get on the ball and deal with pressure. Our game will completely change and we will be able to go toe to toe in the big games. Mark my words.

 

[ivaldo]

Being man marked is like being watched or followed one on one the whole time. Being pressed is different with being marked. When you are being marked just what we did to Pirlo then Pirlo and him became useless so the credit goes to the one who mark them because man mark someone isn't easy.

And who said Carrick can't find his space when being marked too? I remember Milner was assigned to man mark Carrick a few years back then when we faced city but Carrick was able to find his own space and got away from him.

You aren't giving a credit to the one who mark the players. It's not considered to be easy job and to me the role is very underrated.

Or maybe, just maybe, Carrick failed to do his job? Clearly he can't find space when he's being marked, Lallana is hardly renowned for his marking ability, players like Park were employed specifically to do this type of job, if Carrick can't find space against a winger then it just reinforces the well established view he struggles against teams that press. Worst of all he didn't attempt to find that space, even that half of yard to accept the ball under pressure, instead he left the centrebacks to distribute.

 

[Manny]

Or maybe, just maybe, Carrick failed to do his job? Clearly he can't find space when he's being marked, Lallana is hardly renowned for his marking ability, players like Park were employed specifically to do this type of job, if Carrick can't find space against a winger then it just reinforces the well established view he struggles against teams that press. Worst of all he didn't attempt to find that space, even that half of yard to accept the ball under pressure, instead he left the centrebacks to distribute.

If our midfield is being outnumbered 4 to 3 and Carrick is being man marked, then the centre backs should be fecking taking responsibility to distribute. There was three of them back there (yes, I'm including Darmian), yet between them they couldn't find the composure to pick forward passes.

 

[ivaldo]

If our midfield is being outnumbered 4 to 3 and Carrick is being man marked, then the centre backs should be fecking taking responsibility to distribute. There was three of them back there (yes, I'm including Darmian), yet between them they couldn't find the composure to pick forward passes.

Carrick is in that team to distribute, it's not acceptable for him to hide because the opposition has started paying attention to him. His performance was indefensible.

 

[Mike09]

Or maybe, just maybe, Carrick failed to do his job? Clearly he can't find space when he's being marked, Lallana is hardly renowned for his marking ability, players like Park were employed specifically to do this type of job, if Carrick can't find space against a winger then it just reinforces the well established view he struggles against teams that press. Worst of all he didn't attempt to find that space, even that half of yard to accept the ball under pressure, instead he left the centrebacks to distribute.

Well clearly you said "may be" which is a meaning of not sure, which I can tell you have no idea about Lallana much either as you didn't know he's more as a no 10 than a winger.
You are clearly underestimating Lallana. He has very good stamina and work rate too which allows him to do such a task and wasn't just Lallana, Firmino did it as well so pretty much two players were watching and following Carrick the whole time. I bet not many people out there outside United fans or Park fans awared if Park was capable to do such a thing.
And I found it amusing as well because Park is a winger as well and probably more winger than Lallana. If Welbeck was capable to do such a task at United I don't see why can't Lallana who has his best season right now do it?

 

[ivaldo]

Well clearly you said "may be" which is a meaning of not sure, which I can tell you have no idea about Lallana much either as you didn't know he's more as a no 10 than a winger.
You are clearly underestimating Lallana. He has very good stamina and work rate too which allows him to do such a task and wasn't just Lallana, Firmino did it as well so pretty much two players were watching and following Carrick the whole time. I bet not many people out there outside United fans or Park fans awared if Park were capable to do such a thing.
And I found it amusing as well because Park is a winger as well and probably more winger than Lallana. If Welbeck was capable to do such a task at United I don't see why can't Lallana who has his best season right now do it?

I can see pragmatics aren't your strong suit, I thought I was pretty obvious in my assuredness, clearly I need to call a spade a spade with you or you get confused, I can see in this thread this isn't the first time this has been the case.

Lallana has played as a winger as much as he has an attacking midfielder in his career mate, call him what you fecking want it doesn't detract from the point, at least try to keep the discussion on track.

So he has stamina and workrate. If that's all it took to subdue a deep lying playmaker playing for a premier league side then I know a dozen pub league footballers who are up to the task.

Two players were marking Carrick now? The ridiculousness of your posts seem to know no bounds.

 

[Manny]

Carrick is in that team to distribute, it's not acceptable for him to hide because the opposition has started paying attention to him. His performance was indefensible.

Pogba, Carrick and Herrera are outnumbered in midfield and man marked, yet its Carrick (and Pogba) that get stick... Our defence show poor composure and use of the ball despite them having a 4v2 numerical advantage at the back, plus DDG, and they get a pass?

 

[ti vu]

Thing is, just because you're marked doesn't mean you have to disappear from the game or shun the ball entirely. You only need a fraction of a second and half a yard of space to be able to collect the ball and play a pass, Carrick simply stopped attempting it.

You keep using Spurs as an example but Spurs were unable to press to their usual standard, we controlled and shackled them in that respect, at no point was Carrick hounded continually.

Agree. Not all teams play differently. Tottenham is good at pressing, doesn't mean they played the same vs us.

As pointed out in my earlier post: Tottenham needs to build up through their lines and couldn't play direct long ball. We outwitted than by playing direct long balls to negate their pressing. RoJones had low pass completion since they were given permission to boot the ball long away from our goal. We counter pressed them when they built up through their lines.

L'pool as opposed to Tottenham, avoid our passing using long ball, then counter pressed us(!) Origi started for a reason. L'pool only selectively pressed certain area/ players this game as opposed to their usual full pitch pressing.

It's naive to say all pressing is the same. Pogba in the away game at Anfield did fine against L'pool's pressing. Pogba had a bad game doesn't vindicate Carrick's well known struggle against pressing

Pogba, Carrick and Herrera are outnumbered in midfield and man marked, yet its Carrick (and Pogba) that get stick... Our defence show poor composure and use of the ball despite them having a 4v2 numerical advantage at the back, plus DDG, and they get a pass?

You can't put Carrick's failure in this game in same category as Pogba then Herrera in midfield. Carrick hid from the pressing by drop very deep at times into our defense line. He himself becomes part of defensive unit and step into our defenders foot while let Herrera and Pogba being isolated as sole midfielders. Pogba deserved the criticism as he overplayed and fecked up simple play. Herrera was not his tidy self.

So the sub reinforce our midfield. The idea is right, but the execution (Rooney) is lacking. As I said few times already. Our build up and midfield play improved in second half despite most ended at Rooney position. Our CBs have more room to play. L'pool had more rooms to counter attack us, but it's a gamble we had to take with being 1 nil down.

The 4 vs 2 advantage deep in our own pitch is not advantage. We need someone with ability with long ball. The more you make it the more the failure of Carrick is highlighted. He failed badly at playmaking from deep. He can't beat the pressing despite hiding deep between our CBs.

Darmian, RoJones, Valencia did well moving the ball around try to create some tempo, but they're not our deep playmakers. Noone saying they're Pique, Rio MKII. They're capable passers, but the playmaking is an entire different category on its own.

 

[ivaldo]

Pogba, Carrick and Herrera are outnumbered in midfield and man marked, yet its Carrick (and Pogba) that get stick... Our defence show poor composure and use of the ball despite them having a 4v2 numerical advantage at the back, plus DDG, and they get a pass?

Yes Pogba gets stick, no one is defending him are they? Why does Carrick become exempt to it?

Their primary job role is to defend, which, by and large they did well enough. It doesn't take a great deal to find a yard of space to collect the ball off the centrebacks, if all it took was man marking to remove a player from the game then all we would see each week would be long balls. Carrick needs to step up, use all his experience and grab the game by the balls, instead he meekly withdrew and watched the game sail by.

 

[Mike09]

I can see pragmatics aren't your strong suit, I thought I was pretty obvious in my assuredness, clearly I need to call a spade a spade with you or you get confused, I can see in this thread this isn't the first time this has been the case.

None seem having problem in this thread reading my posts until you came. If you have any issue I shall make it easier for you. And it seems this isn't the first time you are out of topic of complaining or arguing. And it also seems that this isn't the first time you are being rude in discussion.

Lallana has played as a winger as much as he has an attacking midfielder in his career mate, call him what you fecking want it doesn't detract from the point, at least try to keep the discussion on track.

So why can't a top no 6 to be in a difficult situation to find space against a winger when player like Pirlo has also stopped by a winger for two games before? Why can't Lallana get a credit?

So he has stamina and workrate. If that's all it took to subdue a deep lying playmaker playing for a premier league side then I know a dozen pub league footballers who are up to the task.

It seems that you are finding it difficult to understand my post. My apologies. But I didn't mean to say you need to have stamina and work rate only, of course this role requires other stuff such as movement off the ball, awareness, concentration and etc. However, I mentioned them because most players who are assigned with this role like Park and Welbeck are known with these aspects.

Two players were marking Carrick now? The ridiculousness of your posts seem to know no bounds.

Not only you don't know that Lallana isn't a winger but you also don't seem to know about Firmino was also in charged to help Lallana to stop Carrick. It's not coincidence how Firmino also covered the centre spot many times despite played as a winger.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Did very little wrong in the Liverpool game. One missed placed pass and half the fan base and pundits claim he was poor. He wasn't good, he wasn't bad. We needed to attack to get back in the game so taking him off was fair enough.

 

[ElQuesoGrande]

Did very little wrong in the Liverpool game. One missed placed pass and half the fan base and pundits claim he was poor. He wasn't good, he wasn't bad. We needed to attack to get back in the game so taking him off was fair enough.

His game is summed up by your first three words really. His performance was exactly the same as it is in most if not all big games; he's too scared to go into tackles, he won't try to pass the ball forwards and he won't try to make space for the centre backs to pass to him, leaving Herrera to do it instead

 

[BringNaniBack]

His game is summed up by your first three words really. His performance was exactly the same as it is in most if not all big games; he's too scared to go into tackles, he won't try to pass the ball forwards and he won't try to make space for the centre backs to pass to him, leaving Herrera to do it instead

Rubbish. He shields the defence brilliantly and makes tackles when needed in big just the same as in the less important games. But no he isn't the Roy Keane type to slam into challanges left right and centre as he doesn't need to. He passes forward and creates space for Pogba and Herrera to do the majority of the forward play. Carrick is literally always making space and making himself available for the ball and he did this in the Liverpool game as per usual. You're talking like he was hiding from our centre backs which wasn't the case at all.

 

[Cassidy]

I have also explained it before that Carrick has his way to handle pressure but it seems this discussion is just going to around like circle so I'll end it.

I didn''t disagree with you.

 

[Cassidy]

Did very little wrong in the Liverpool game. One missed placed pass and half the fan base and pundits claim he was poor. He wasn't good, he wasn't bad. We needed to attack to get back in the game so taking him off was fair enough.

He had a poor game. I think hes a brilliant player, just had an off day mainly due the the opposition tactics thats all

 

[ElQuesoGrande]

Rubbish. He shields the defence brilliantly and makes tackles when needed in big just the same as in the less important games. But no he isn't the Roy Keane type to slam into challanges left right and centre as he doesn't need to. He passes forward and creates space for Pogba and Herrera to do the majority of the forward play. Carrick is literally always making space and making himself available for the ball and he did this in the Liverpool game as per usual. You're talking like he was hiding from our centre backs which wasn't the case at all.

I politely disagree, but I'm open to being proved wrong with the use of examples from the game

 

[Mike09]

He had a poor game. I think hes a brilliant player, just had an off day mainly due the the opposition tactics thats all

Despite of a difficult game he only gave the ball away once so you can't say he's poor. He did nothing right but nothing wrong either because he was being nullified. There is two different meaning of being poor like Pogba or did nothing wrong and right like Carrick.
In first half we gave Herrera a little more freedom and Liverpool only had one shot on target from the penalty, we had more chances in first half than Liverpool did!! When Carrick was off, Liverpool played better, got more chances, got more shot on target than in first half, and Herrera became less effective before Fellaini came. The likes of Lallana and Firmino who were busy to watch Carrick in first half had more freedom to attack in second half.

 

[ivaldo]

Rubbish. He shields the defence brilliantly and makes tackles when needed in big just the same as in the less important games. But no he isn't the Roy Keane type to slam into challanges left right and centre as he doesn't need to. He passes forward and creates space for Pogba and Herrera to do the majority of the forward play. Carrick is literally always making space and making himself available for the ball and he did this in the Liverpool game as per usual. You're talking like he was hiding from our centre backs which wasn't the case at all.

It verges on the ridiculous that posters like you can justify defending him when he has a game like he did against Liverpool. He hid from the ball, made no effort to collect the ball of the centrebacks and was just happy to let the game pass him by. Literally none of what you said Carrick does did he do in that half a football.

 

[ivaldo]

None seem having problem in this thread reading my posts until you came. If you have any issue I shall make it easier for you. And it seems this isn't the first time you are out of topic of complaining or arguing. And it also seems that this isn't the first time you are being rude in discussion.


So why can't a top no 6 to be in a difficult situation to find space against a winger when player like Pirlo has also stopped by a winger for two games before? Why can't Lallana get a credit?




It seems that you are finding it difficult to understand my post. My apologies. But I didn't mean to say you need to have stamina and work rate only, of course this role requires other stuff such as movement off the ball, awareness, concentration and etc. However, I mentioned them because most players who are assigned with this role like Park and Welbeck are known with these aspects.


Not only you don't know that Lallana isn't a winger but you also don't seem to know about Firmino was also in charged to help Lallana to stop Carrick. It's not coincidence how Firmino also covered the centre spot many times despite played as a winger.

Oh the hypocrisy I seem to recall you berating someone because they didn't use an omissive apostrophe!

Either in this thread or another; it seems we have to be literal with you or you don't understand it. That's fine, English may well be your second language.

No, in what world would Klopp assign two players to man mark Carrick? You're utterly delusion if you genuinely beleive that. They were pressing, much like they were pressing other players. Stop making excuses for the player, he played terribly and wilted against the pressure hence why he was hauled off at half time.

Lallana has played far more of his career as a winger than he has done centrally mate, not that it matters, the point still stands.

 

[Mike09]

It verges on the ridiculous that posters like you can justify defending him when he has a game like he did against Liverpool. He hid from the ball, made no effort to collect the ball of the centrebacks and was just happy to let the game pass him by. Literally none of what you said Carrick does did he do in that half a football.

Made no effort because of no support? I have already said this but you need to give the opposition players who man mark him credit as well. I don't blame Pirlo to be poor in fact I gave a lot of credit to Park to be able to stop him. Noticed how Liverpool only had one shot on target in first half which was from the penalty? Blind replaced Darmian would have been a better change than Rooney to Carrick. He could be an option to support Carrick for his role. We were worse in second half than in first half before Fellaini came!!

 

[ivaldo]

Made no effort because of no support? I have already said this but you need to give the opposition players who man mark him credit as well. I don't blame Pirlo to be poor in fact I gave a lot of credit to Park to be able to stop him. Noticed how Liverpool only had one shot on target in first half which was from the penalty? Blind replaced Darmian would have been a better change than Rooney to Carrick. He could be an option to support Carrick for his role. We were worse in second half than in first half before Fellaini came!!

No because he wilts under pressure. This happens all the while with Carrick, he gets pressed and he disappears, there's years worth of evidence to support this.

I wouldn't have minded as much if he tried to get on the ball and he gave it away under pressure. But Hh didn't even attempt to do that, to get on the ball and control the game.

 

[Cassidy]

Despite of a difficult game he only gave the ball away once so you can't say he's poor. He did nothing right but nothing wrong either because he was being nullified. There is two different meaning of being poor like Pogba or did nothing wrong and right like Carrick.
In first half we gave Herrera a little more freedom and Liverpool only had one shot on target from the penalty, we had more chances in first half than Liverpool did!! When Carrick was off, Liverpool played better, got more chances, got more shot on target than in first half, and Herrera became less effective before Fellaini came. The likes of Lallana and Firmino who were busy to watch Carrick in first half had more freedom to attack in second half.

We have different standards. We were the attacking team and he didn't get into the game to effect it, so to me he had a poor game. He wasn't able to find space and get on the ball and effect the game. Like I said though it wasn't all his fault it was largely down to opposition tactics.

 

[Mike09]

Oh the hypocrisy I seem to recall you berating someone because they didn't use an omissive apostrophe!

Either in this thread or another; it seems we have to be literal with you or you don't understand it. That's fine, English may well be your second language.

I'm being nice here to discuss but you are being rude and disrespectful because you can't accept with people who have different opinion. You need to change your attitude and learn some manners man!! If you can't accept two different opinion in a discussion then you can ignore it or stop talking!

No, in what world would Klopp assign two players to man mark Carrick? You're utterly delusion if you genuinely beleive that. They were pressing, much like they were pressing other players. Stop making excuses for the player, he played terribly and wilted against the pressure hence why he was hauled off at half time.

I don't see anything wrong with Firmino was helping Lallana to watch Carrick. Carrick has been vital of our winning ratio this season, it's understandable that Klopp knows if he can stop Carrick even by two players man mark him, the flow of our forward passes would have been stopped completely. Coincidence how both Firmino and Lallana had more chances to attack in 2nd half than they did in first half.

Lallana has played far more of his career as a winger than he has done centrally mate, not that it matters, the point still stands.

I don't know what kind of Lallana you watched but in Southampton he played as a no 10 but also sometime as a winger due to his pace. Everyone think him as a no 10 more than a winger.
Lallana played more as a no 10 this season with Liverpool. The only time he spent his career played as a winger when Rodgers was in charge and he was never the same player as he was at Southampton or as he is right now.
Mata who played more as a winger in his career with us and Chelsea, would you call him a winger or no 10? It seems me and everyone else think he's a no 10.

 

[Mike09]

No because he wilts under pressure. This happens all the while with Carrick, he gets pressed and he disappears, there's years worth of evidence to support this.

I wouldn't have minded as much if he tried to get on the ball and he gave it away under pressure. But Hh didn't even attempt to do that, to get on the ball and control the game.

The evidence that I remember is when Carrick play against one of the best high pressure team in the league like Spurs he didn't dissapear.
So you don't mind Carrick to tried and gave the ball away like Pogba? Carrick plays as no 6. It's a role which you can't give the ball away. Pirlo was being nullified and it happened to Carrick as well.

 

[Mike09]

We have different standards. We were the attacking team and he didn't get into the game to effect it, so to me he had a poor game. He wasn't able to find space and get on the ball and effect the game. Like I said though it wasn't all his fault it was largely down to opposition tactics.

If you think Pirlo (vs Park) had equally poor game as what Carrick had then I see what's your standard is. But if you say no then I can't understand your standard at all.

 

[NoPace]

Did very little wrong in the Liverpool game. One missed placed pass and half the fan base and pundits claim he was poor. He wasn't good, he wasn't bad. We needed to attack to get back in the game so taking him off was fair enough.

This is how I saw it, though I watched the game socially and not like a normal lonely spectrum madman analyzing it closely, like normal.

I think Liverpool didn't look so great and we don't score enough goals so Mourinho flipped the midfield triangle, which as we've seen in the cups, is his go to move against weaker sides.

Not sure why Rooney was the 10 and not Rashford getting the call either there or out wide with Mkhitaryan, but experience in the position and finishing were on his side. Hopefully next year that's Griezmann's spot in addition to time spent at RW.

 

[ivaldo]

I'm being nice here to discuss but you are being rude and disrespectful because you can't accept with people who have different opinion. You need to change your attitude and learn some manners man!! If you can't accept two different opinion in a discussion then you can ignore it or stop talking!

I don't see anything wrong with Firmino was helping Lallana to watch Carrick. Carrick has been vital of our winning ratio this season, it's understandable that Klopp knows if he can stop Carrick even by two players man mark him, the flow of our forward passes would have been stopped completely. Coincidence how both Firmino and Lallana had more chances to attack in 2nd half than they did in first half.



I don't know what kind of Lallana you watched but in Southampton he played as a no 10 but also sometime as a winger due to his pace. Everyone think him as a no 10 more than a winger.
Lallana played more as a no 10 this season with Liverpool. The only time he spent his career played as a winger when Rodgers was in charge and he was never the same player as he was at Southampton or as he is right now.
Mata who played more as a winger in his career with us and Chelsea, would you call him a winger or no 10? It seems me and everyone else think he's a no 10.

Strange you decided not to comment on your berating of something who did not use an omissive apostrophe, strange indeed. Practice what you preach mate.

I'm fine discussing points with people who have differing opinions, I struggle with posters like you who try to point out peoples faults yet get offended when the shoe is on the other foot. The whole 'you don't read my post properly' thing is also particularly annoying.

If someone called Mata a wide man I wouldn't have any problem with that. He's played there a hell of a lot and I would consider it a fair label. I especially wouldn't decide to prattle on about it detracting from the point at hand just because my sole defense of a player was based a single occurance from over six years ago.

It's very simple, Carrick struggles when he gets pressed and it's been that way for most of his career.

 

[Mike09]

Strange you decided not to comment on your berating of something who did not use an omissive apostrophe, strange indeed. Practice what you preach mate.
I'm fine discussing points with people who have differing opinions, I struggle with posters like you who try to point out peoples faults yet get offended when the shoe is on the other foot. The whole 'you don't read my post properly' thing is also particularly annoying.

I came here to have discussion about Carrick or anything related to it. Not being pulled out off the topic by someone like you and getting upset. I have learnt there are people like you in the forum tried to do the same thing and always started first by pissing someone off like this in a discussion.

If someone called Mata a wide man I wouldn't have any problem with that. He's played there a hell of a lot and I would consider it a fair label. I especially wouldn't decide to prattle on about it detracting from the point at hand just because my sole defense of a player was based a single occurance from over six years ago.

My point was just like Mata, Lallana at his best is playing as no 10. Even this season Klopp used him a lot as a no 10. Just because Lallana can play winger like Mata doesn't mean he's not a no 10.

It's very simple, Carrick struggles when he gets pressed and it's been that way for most of his career.

I don't remember he sturggled against Spurs this season. Any players can be struggled when they get pressed even Kante struggled against Spurs. But that's the point of team work, so other players can support him but both Herrera and Pogba didn't help him at all.

 

[Cassidy]

If you think Pirlo (vs Park) had equally poor game as what Carrick had then I see what's your standard is. But if you say no then I can't understand your standard at all.

I don't remember that game that clearly to remember Pirlos performance. But if he wasn't able to get on the ball and effect the game (which would have been his job) then I would say he had a poor game.

 

[Cassidy]

I came here to have discussion about Carrick or anything related to it. Not being pulled out off the topic by someone like you and getting upset. I have learnt there are people like you in the forum tried to do the same thing and always started first by pissing someone off like this in a discussion.


My point was just like Mata, Lallana at his best is playing as no 10. Even this season Klopp used him a lot as a no 10. Just because Lallana can play winger like Mata doesn't mean he's not a no 10.



I don't remember he sturggled against Spurs this season. Any players can be struggled when they get pressed even Kante struggled against Spurs. But that's the point of team work, so other players can support him but both Herrera and Pogba didn't help him at all.

They were all poor and he didn't help them either. Well actually poor is harsh on Herrera

 

[Mike09]

I don't remember that game that clearly to remember Pirlos performance. But if he wasn't able to get on the ball and effect the game (which would have been his job) then I would say he had a poor game.

If Carrick didn't lose the ball but pass it to his centre backs or full back. Pirlo lost the ball right away when he took the touch so yes he wasn't able to get on the ball and effect the game as a result Milan got hammered 4-0.

 

[Mike09]

They were all poor and he didn't help them either. Well actually poor is harsh on Herrera

He couldn't help because he was being man marked. Herrera and Pogba should have helped him so he can get away from the Liverpool's player.

 

[Cassidy]

If Carrick didn't lose the ball but pass it to his centre backs or full back. Pirlo lost the ball right away when he took the touch so yes he wasn't able to get on the ball and effect the game as a result Milan got hammered 4-0.

Thats great but I don't even know why you bring it up? Carrick had a poor game, what has Pirlo go to do with anything, especially in a game years ago

 

[Cassidy]

He couldn't help because he was being man marked. Herrera and Pogba should have helped him so he can get away from the Liverpool's player.

This is tedious, they were all covered and pressured. They were all more or less poor, the only one who was able to effect the game in any positive way was Herrera

 

[Mike09]

Thats great but I don't even know why you bring it up? Carrick had a poor game, what has Pirlo go to do with anything, especially in a game years ago

I was just saying it was two similar situation. Carrick was being nullified by the same tactic that we used on Pirlo. None of their and our other midfields were helping both players. Both Pirlo and Carrick were hopeless when they were being marked and followed like that. So big credit to who ever man mark the players.

 

[Mike09]

This is tedious, they were all covered and pressured. They were all more or less poor, the only one who was able to effect the game in any positive way was Herrera

Look at what happened to Herrera when he was dropped to no 6 and before Fellaini came. He was hopeless.