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2016-17 Performances


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6.1 Season Average Rating
Appearances
38
Goals
1
Assists
1
Yellow cards
3
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He doesn't.

But still a great servant for us.

Sure he is, but some will always say he is underrated, he should have played more for England... etc etc

He is properly rated, great servant for us, great passer and great defensive awareness, but he become invisible under pressure
 
Pogbas a match winner. Carrick isnt. Either could have come off, I think we made the right decision.

Match winner but keep losing the ball which could cost us a game. Today was Pogba worst game I have ever watched in his career. When he was on and off the ball, he has done nothing positive at all, 1/10 rating for Pogba is probably still too good.
And I'm afraid people who called Carrick was poor and was the right decision to put him off are actually wrong.
First half Liverpool didn't have a single shot on target apart from that penalty shows that we are still taking control of it. While second half Liverpool had more chances than first half, I can only remember Carrick gave the ball away once and one bad moment people think he was poor. I know he wasn't good but he wasn't poor. Pogba was the one who let us down.
 
We need to find a him a replacement soon. He wasn't the worst player on the pitch today, but seriously we've gone far too long not replacing him.
At the moment we're relying on two 35 years olds (Carrick and Zlatan) to lead the team, its bound to tell sooner or later. It needs to be rectified asap, its such a key position in the team and in how we play.
 
Although Carrick was horribly bad today, his substitution had an impact on our play in the 2nd half. Herrera got the job of 2 men with additional duties. Pogba was invisible. Jones&Rojo had to start bombing balls route-1 to Zlatan.
 
Against Pool, your anchor needs to have faster legs. A cross of Carra and JSP would be awesome.
 
We have always struggled against pressing teams with Carrick in the side. Mourinho's biggest challenge next season is to find a replacement for Carrick who can play out from deep under pressure. Otherwise, our only solution against high-pressing teams is to hit long towards Fellaini which is an approach even Van Gaal adopted in games like this.
 
He struggled with the dynamism and energy of Henderson, Can and Wijnaldum.

We're playing with fire if we're expecting him to start the majority of our games and expecting him to stay fresh.

If I was Jose I'd seriously consider investing in someone with legs. Amongst the other options we have Mata who I have no complaints with, but ideally he needs to play further forward, TFM is too young, Fellaini should not be first choice but is a good option off the bench and BFS is a cuddly toy mascot. Bakayoko?
 
A Kante type player would have been perfect for us out there today.
Not really. We need a player who can play from deep but dynamic enough to help congesting the space during our pressing phase and support Herrera & Pogba/ the pressing on the front. Ironically Fellaini was better in this role in the away game to Anfield. He's not fast but tough and more dynamic than Carrick.

A Matic in good form is ideal today in place of Carrick. We don't need a Kante like working horse running around ball chasing, but a head with good positional sense, brave player to get stuck in and drive forward a bit and competent passer to create thing (taking into account Pogba is subpar and needs help)
 
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Been a good player for us, but as pointed out by others, his flaw has always been getting pressed and disappearing against decent opposition. Jose needs to find a replacement for him as a matter of urgency in the summer.
 
We were outnumbered in midfield today, there was a good article showing how Liverpool's press, thourgh their diamond 4, concentrated on Carrick, while we had no one is the position Henderson occupied. Which is why adding a #10 made sense. Pity that it was Rooney.
 
We were outnumbered in midfield today, there was a good article showing how Liverpool's press, thourgh their diamond 4, concentrated on Carrick, while we had no one is the position Henderson occupied. Which is why adding a #10 made sense. Pity that it was Rooney.

The midfield were pretty much worse when Carrick was replaced by Rooney. Noticed how we started kicking again after Fellaini came on. Fellaini gave more support to Herrera while Pogba did nothing and Rooney wasn't effective at all. It wasn't a good decision to take Carrick off for Rooney in my opinion, not making the midfield better but worse.
 
He wasnt great. His passing was off. Getting him off at Half time was the right move (though imo it should have been mata not rooney).

I think we needed more of his forward passes quicker rather than him splitting the defence and playing it out to Jones or Rojo (cos they werent moving into the space in front of them).
 
The midfield were pretty much worse when Carrick was replaced by Rooney. Noticed how we started kicking again after Fellaini came on. Fellaini gave more support to Herrera while Pogba did nothing and Rooney wasn't effective at all. It wasn't a good decision to take Carrick off for Rooney in my opinion, not making the midfield better but worse.
I don't think we improved slightly with Rooney. Just that Rooney's shortcoming being our the dead end of our attacking. In first half, too many times Carrick under pressure passed sideways to our defenders and we at times lacking idea how to move the ball to our attacker.

Seeing Rooney being not as effective as intended. Fellaini was an option for us to bypass midfield and play direct. As other said, Mata instead of Rooney would be better. However, again subbing Carrick was a right decision.
 
Been a good player for us, but as pointed out by others, his flaw has always been getting pressed and disappearing against decent opposition. Jose needs to find a replacement for him as a matter of urgency in the summer.
Absolute rubbish this one, I'm sorry. He was our best player in 2011 UCL final, I also remember him being MOTM in 2006/07 title decider against Chelsea at OT. In fact, many many times, he was the most important player in big matches for United.

What happened today has also happened to Xabi Alonso when he played against Dortmund and United in 2012/13 as he was marked and harassed by opposition players. Does that mean Xabi Alonso not a big match player?

The problem was that today he was marked both by Lallana and Firmino, he needed help from Pogba and Herrera. While Herrera was good defensively, he wasn't available enough to receive the ball from Carrick. As for Pogba, well nothing to say there as we might as well have played with 10 men. Even then, his performance(or the lack of it) today is exaggerated, apart from one misplaced pass I don't remember him doing THAT much wrong, not at least enough to be replaced by the worst player in the squad in Rooney.

That substitution nullified us even further, as we created much lesser than we did in 1st half. In fact, apart from the Pogba debacle, Liverpool didn't have a sniff on goal in the first half, but they were the better team in the second half. We should have been miles ahead due to the chances in the first half, but at the end we got away with a draw despite having a horrific second half.
 
I don't think we improved slightly with Rooney. Just that Rooney's shortcoming being our the dead end of our attacking. In first half, too many times Carrick under pressure passed sideways to our defenders and we at times lacking idea how to move the ball to our attacker.

Seeing Rooney being not as effective as intended. Fellaini was an option for us to bypass midfield and play direct. As other said, Mata instead of Rooney would be better. However, again subbing Carrick was a right decision.

The reason why he was under pressure and passed sideways because he was being marked by two players Lallana and Firmino not because he can't handle pressure. This is the same strategy that Sir Alex used Park on Pirlo. Both Pogba and Herrera didn't help him at all to give him an option for a pass, they were too far from Carrick's range. The only option were centre backs. When Herrera was dropped as a no 6, I don't think he did as much as what he did in first half but when Fellaini came on Herrera started to have more freedom to launch a lot of forward passes.

Subbing Carrick off clearly didn't improved the midfield, it was the same or worse. Keeping Carrick and moved Herrera or Pogba a bit deeper to help him so Carrick can find more option to pass or get away from Firmino and Lallana would have been a better decision. Fellaini was the difference, he helped Herrera. Carrick's being off didn't make any thing different at all.
 
The reason why he was under pressure and passed sideways because he was being marked by two players Lallana and Firmino not because he can't handle pressure. This is the same strategy that Sir Alex used Park on Pirlo. Both Pogba and Herrera didn't help him at all to give him an option for a pass, they were too far from Carrick's range. The only option were centre backs. When Herrera was dropped as a no 6, I don't think he did as much as what he did in first half but when Fellaini came on Herrera started to have more freedom to launch a lot of forward passes.

Subbing Carrick off clearly didn't improved the midfield, it was the same or worse. Keeping Carrick and moved Herrera or Pogba a bit deeper to help him so Carrick can find more option to pass or get away from Firmino and Lallana would have been a better decision. Fellaini was the difference, he helped Herrera. Carrick's being off didn't make any thing different at all.
I don't see what is different. He is not able to break the pressing due to his inability to lose his mark with dribbling, quick interchange. Too many touch and time he needs to pick his pass. We did move Herrera and Pogba deep at time to help but couldn't improve one bit. It became similar to LVG deep double pivot and hindered our attack even more. Thing is we're not comfortable with deep double pivot even under LVG. Moving Herrera and Pogba deep just negated us more so it's reasonable to change the midfield engine.

Herrera and Pogba was a more box to box partnership so it's very different than what we tried in first half at times to help Carrick out or under LVG. They don't have to drop too deep between our CBs to avoid pressing and start play. We did improve and get better to move the ball into final third. Just that Rooney didn't offer enough and his touch being the end of our attack. Like I said Mata on instead of Rooney would be better.

Fellaini came on to play no 10 not midfield 3. See the above point about Rooney as no 10 was the end of our attack. We changed the style to direct long ball from the back toward Zlatan and Fellaini. You can't use different style (long direct ball) and different midfield play (box to box) and say Carrick was doing well and using a no 10 was random. It's well thought action given how Carrick performed inefective at deep play maker in the first half.

What set Pirlo apart is his dribbling ability which is underrated. Even with how great Park marked him. Pirlo was never fully contained, which Carrick IMO was in today game. He's limited, but still got away and and influence his team play.
 
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I don't see what is different. He is not able to break the pressing due to his inability to lose his mark with dribbling, quick interchange. Too many touch and time he needs to pick his pass. We did move Herrera and Pogba deep at time to help but couldn't improve one bit. It became similar to LVG deep double pivot and hindered our attack even more. Thing is we're not comfortable with deep double pivot even under LVG. Moving Herrera and Pogba deep just negated us more so it's reasonable to change the midfield engine.

Herrera and Pogba was a more box to box partnership so it's very different than what we tried in first half at times to help Carrick out or under LVG. They don't have to drop too deep between our CBs to avoid pressing and start play. We did improve and get better to move the ball into final third. Just that Rooney didn't offer enough and his touch being the end of our attack. Like I said Mata on instead of Rooney would be better.

Fellaini came on to play no 10 not midfield 3. See the above point about Rooney as no 10 was the end of our attack. We changed the style to direct long ball from the back toward Zlatan and Fellaini. You can't use different style (long direct ball) and different midfield play (box to box) and say Carrick was doing well and using a no 10 was random. It's well thought action given how Carrick performed inefective at deep play maker in the first half.

What set Pirlo apart is his dribbling ability which is underrated. Even with how great Park marked him. Pirlo was never fully contained, which Carrick IMO was in today game. He's limited, but still got away and and influence his team play.

You don't need a dribbling skill in order to handle pressure. Carrick always handle pressure by shielding the ball with his strength or pass it quick. When there is no option to pass he can't make quick pass. It's clearly different with being mark tactically player like Pirlo became a poor man after being marked by Park in a high pressure. Both Carrick and Pirlo always know how to find space but when players can follow them, you have to give credit to the marker.

If you still insist thinking that it was a good decision to subbed Carrick off, why don't you go watch the game again. Compare the first half and the second half before Fellaini came. In first half Liverpool didn't have a single shot on target at all apart from the penalty and we had three great chances to score. In second half our midfield was still being locked because just like Carrick, Herrera didn't get much support at all and what made it worse was Liverpool had better chances to score than they did in first half. Lucky that Rojo and Jones were able to anticipate d the danger and Dr Gea made great saves otherwise we would have conceded goals in second half.
 
You don't need a dribbling skill in order to handle pressure. Carrick always handle pressure by shielding the ball with his strength or pass it quick. When there is no option to pass he can't make quick pass. It's clearly different with being mark tactically player like Pirlo became a poor man after being marked by Park in a high pressure. Both Carrick and Pirlo always know how to find space but when players can follow them, you have to give credit to the marker.

If you still insist thinking that it was a good decision to subbed Carrick off, why don't you go watch the game again. Compare the first half and the second half before Fellaini came. In first half Liverpool didn't have a single shot on target at all apart from the penalty and we had three great chances to score. In second half our midfield is still being locked because just like Carrick, Herrera didn't get much support at all and what made it worse was Liverpool had better chances to score than they did in first half. Lucky that Rojo and Jones were able to anticipate d the danger and Dr Gea made great saves otherwise we would have conceded goals in second half.
We can agree to disagree here. Pirlo be completely marked out of the game not happen. Park did well but it's bother myth saying Pirlo was fully nullified. Limited yes. You just have to watch the first half again to see how Carrick can't handle the pressing and drop way too deep and not confident to spike thing up and try dribble a bit and stretch the play a bit. You can only do as much being good at finding space if you refuse to take responsibility and dribble out of trouble since the opponent can be tactical competent and has stamina to chase you around.

We gamble with box to box midfielders and CB partnership (RoJones were about active defending on front foot) in second half and allow more space behind. With that we have more space to in no 10 area. If only Rooney... we can do much better. The product line was stuck at the end of the line at Rooney feet.

In first half, Pogba hardly had space in no 10 area. Chances =/= being better in midfield with Pogba was clearly underplayed in first half with us not being able to move the ball out well enough. Playing conservative like in first half get the worse out of RoJones, and the front line. Look past Rooney feck up, if you take what other players offered, you can clearly see collective we're better than first half even before a style change with Fellaini coming on.
 
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Absolute rubbish this one, I'm sorry. He was our best player in 2011 UCL final, I also remember him being MOTM in 2006/07 title decider against Chelsea at OT. In fact, many many times, he was the most important player in big matches for United.

What happened today has also happened to Xabi Alonso when he played against Dortmund and United in 2012/13 as he was marked and harassed by opposition players. Does that mean Xabi Alonso not a big match player?

The problem was that today he was marked both by Lallana and Firmino, he needed help from Pogba and Herrera. While Herrera was good defensively, he wasn't available enough to receive the ball from Carrick. As for Pogba, well nothing to say there as we might as well have played with 10 men. Even then, his performance(or the lack of it) today is exaggerated, apart from one misplaced pass I don't remember him doing THAT much wrong, not at least enough to be replaced by the worst player in the squad in Rooney.

That substitution nullified us even further, as we created much lesser than we did in 1st half. In fact, apart from the Pogba debacle, Liverpool didn't have a sniff on goal in the first half, but they were the better team in the second half. We should have been miles ahead due to the chances in the first half, but at the end we got away with a draw despite having a horrific second half.
He's not mobile enough to counter the press against decent opposition. In the UCL final in 2011 Fabio played better than him and he was a fullback.
 
He's not mobile enough to counter the press against decent opposition. In the UCL final in 2011 Fabio played better than him and he was a fullback.
We must have seen a different match or our perception is different. In my view, Fabio did okay, while Wayne Rooney and Michael Carrick were the players who could be held their heads high in that final, apart from that everyone was rubbish, including Van Der Sar.

Xabi Alonso, Pirlo etc. are not mobile either. It's not mobility that matters, it's the ability to find space and protect the ball that matters.
 
Carrick was quite bad yesterday but that was his first bad game in ages. He just couldn't get going and never looked comfortable. Liverpool did a good job in targeting him.
 
Will future opponents look to target him by having a player assigned to constantly close him down and deny him time on the ball?
Maybe but this where you need the other midfielders and defenders to take the initiative with the build up. Rojo and Jones aren't the most comfortable at it and Pogba and Herrera were headless chickens I thought in the first half.
 
We must have seen a different match or our perception is different. In my view, Fabio did okay, while Wayne Rooney and Michael Carrick were the players who could be held their heads high in that final, apart from that everyone was rubbish, including Van Der Sar.

Xabi Alonso, Pirlo etc. are not mobile either. It's not mobility that matters, it's the ability to find space and protect the ball that matters.

Well Carrick can't protect the ball like Xabi, and if you actually see how Pirlo play you'll know how he is a very good at dribbling past the opponent who press him, something that Carrick has never been able to do
 
We must have seen a different match or our perception is different. In my view, Fabio did okay, while Wayne Rooney and Michael Carrick were the players who could be held their heads high in that final, apart from that everyone was rubbish, including Van Der Sar.

Xabi Alonso, Pirlo etc. are not mobile either. It's not mobility that matters, it's the ability to find space and protect the ball that matters.
We must've seen a different game.

But do carry on over-rating his abilities and using other players to paper over his shortcomings.
 
We must've seen a different game.

But do carry on over-rating his abilities and using other players to paper over his shortcomings.
Considering he was playing in a 2 man midfield with first Ryan Giggs and then Ji-sung Park against Xavi, Inesta and Busquets at their peak I thought he did as well as can be expected.
 
He's not mobile enough to counter the press against decent opposition. In the UCL final in 2011 Fabio played better than him and he was a fullback.

People keep on trotting this out. It's complete piffle. You'd swear that Liverpool were the only team in the league capable of pressing. Spurs have been as good, if not better, at pressing and Carrick had no bother with it at all when we beat them at Old Trafford.
 
We should have substituted Carrick for Felliani.. moved Harerra to Carrick's position and Felliani playing from right.. Love him or hate him.. Felliani always shows up against Liverpool
 
People keep on trotting this out. It's complete piffle. You'd swear that Liverpool were the only team in the league capable of pressing. Spurs have been as good, if not better, at pressing and Carrick had no bother with it at all when we beat them at Old Trafford.

He wasn't just generally pressed, he was man marked. That's different. As we showed when Park man marked Pirlo or when Jones man marked Ronaldo, if you have someone who just follows you wherever you go and sticks to their task well, they can neutralise you. Nothing the individual can do about, its down to the team to work around it.
 
Considering he was playing in a 2 man midfield with first Ryan Giggs and then Ji-sung Park against Xavi, Inesta and Busquets at their peak I thought he did as well as can be expected.
We should never have been in a position for that to happen.
People keep on trotting this out. It's complete piffle. You'd swear that Liverpool were the only team in the league capable of pressing. Spurs have been as good, if not better, at pressing and Carrick had no bother with it at all when we beat them at Old Trafford.
The problem Spurs had was they couldn't throttle our forwards quite as well as Klopp did yesterday. Hence the onus fell on our midfield to keep the ball better under pressure from Liverpools press and we failed miserably. Liverpool were quicker to the second ball and had more energy than us in midfield.
 
We should have substituted Carrick for Felliani.. moved Harerra to Carrick's position and Felliani playing from right.. Love him or hate him.. Felliani always shows up against Liverpool

It could have worked. While I think Herrera is an inferior player to Carrick in that position, the one thing he does have is quick feet to beat the pressing player with one or two touches.

That's always been Carrick's achilles heel, and Klopp exploited it yesterday. Another alternative is to just have Blind at CB or LB to help keep the ball moving a little smoother.

It'll be interesting to see how Stoke line-up. I have a feeling they'll follow Klopp's lead and have someone just sit on Carrick the whole game.
 
He wasn't just generally pressed, he was man marked. That's different. As we showed when Park man marked Pirlo or when Jones man marked Ronaldo, if you have someone who just follows you wherever you go and sticks to their task well, they can neutralise you. Nothing the individual can do about, its down to the team to work around it.

Exactly. The upside of being man-marked is that it should give a little more time and space to Pogba and Hererra. The less said about how they used that theoretical advantage the better...
 
Seems to fall apart anytime he faces a high-pressing team. This has been going on for years as well.
 
Exactly. The upside of being man-marked is that it should give a little more time and space to Pogba and Hererra. The less said about how they used that theoretical advantage the better...
Liverpool's system yesterday should also have allowed our CBs, as well as Darmian who was practically a spare centre back, more time and space to pick out passes.

If they had shown more composure and had better use of the ball, it would have taken a lot of the pressure off our midfield to receive passes in difficult situations. It was alway 4 vs 3 in there with Henderson waiting to support or pick up loose and second balls.
 
People keep on trotting this out. It's complete piffle. You'd swear that Liverpool were the only team in the league capable of pressing. Spurs have been as good, if not better, at pressing and Carrick had no bother with it at all when we beat them at Old Trafford.
He wasn't just generally pressed, he was man marked. That's different. As we showed when Park man marked Pirlo or when Jones man marked Ronaldo, if you have someone who just follows you wherever you go and sticks to their task well, they can neutralise you. Nothing the individual can do about, its down to the team to work around it.

Fixed. Spurs is probably one of the best team in pressing and they have quality midfielders like Dembele, Wanyama and Dier. They are probably better midfielders than what Liverpool got and yet Carrick could still handle these players and the high pressing system that Pochettino always use. Carrick was being targeted and followed from the first place. The tactic worked just like what we did to Pirlo last time.
 
Fixed. Spurs is probably one of the best team in pressing and they have quality midfielders like Dembele, Wanyama and Dier. They are probably better midfielders than what Liverpool got and yet Carrick could still handle these players and the high pressing system that Pochettino always use. Carrick was being targeted and followed from the first place. The tactic worked just like what we did to Pirlo last time.

Not saying that's not true but the tactic was totally different against Spurs. We were at home and deliberately conceded possession (40 something %!) and sat deep so we wouldn't get exploited. Against Liverpool, Mourinho got his tactics wrong, as we didn't sit and didn't press (bit like against City) so the responsibility laid on the player's shoulders. Carrick withered and Pogba bottled it.

It's a slight on Carrick but he absolutely has a weakness (more than other comparable players in his position) with regards to being pressed.
 
Will future opponents look to target him by having a player assigned to constantly close him down and deny him time on the ball?
They would try, but if other players turn up, we're still in control: Pogba has a shocker. Martial still needs to work on his movement and get more involved. Mkhi has higher level than showing, feed Zlatan more, sub in Mata instead of Rooney...

Not saying that's not true but the tactic was totally different against Spurs. We were at home and deliberately conceded possession (40 something %!) and sat deep so we wouldn't get exploited. Against Liverpool, Mourinho got his tactics wrong, as we didn't sit and didn't press (bit like against City) so the responsibility laid on the player's shoulders. Carrick withered and Pogba bottled it.

It's a slight on Carrick but he absolutely has a weakness (more than other comparable players in his position) with regards to being pressed.
We did try to press. We don't use full field pressing. We start pressing when L'pool build up into the middle third of the pitch. However, Klopp tried to concede possession and long balls (surprise!) to relive pressure and counter press us. So it's basically the reverse Tottenham game. L'pool play more long balls than us ( we played direct toward the end with Fellaini) and some are aimless just to relieve pressure and frustrate us.



Agree with part of your Tottenham analysis. What I saw is we deliberately conceded possession vs Tottenham by getting the ball further away from our goal and to Tottenham back line. Tottenham doesn't have good target man to play direct long ball so they rely on build up through their line. We press and force error. One of those leading to our goal. We didn't sit deep from all the time.

Against L'pool, when we tried to press, L'pool just boot the ball away. L'pool then regroup to press us when we try to build up from deep and Carrick is the main target for their press. Rojo, Jones Darmian, Valencia most of the time fine passing between themselves but they ain't top class ball playing to be able to build up themselves with Carrick being nullified.

We don't really get the tactic wrong: we're comfortable shutting L'pool down in first half as well as create couple clear chance. The problem is some players ain't comfortable vs L'pool tactic and our passing rhythm is inconsistent. It's Okay for game with when score line is even. By going down 1 nil through stupid penalty, the game flow changed. We need a better attacking plan than risking being frustrated with the same inconsistent passing rhythm. We took the risk with 2 box to box midfield in second half and open more space for our no10. The problem is Rooney didn't meet expectation for most part being the dead end of our attack. A better no 10 in his place and we can fancy an earlier equalizer and a chance to win the game.
 
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Not saying that's not true but the tactic was totally different against Spurs. We were at home and deliberately conceded possession (40 something %!) and sat deep so we wouldn't get exploited. Against Liverpool, Mourinho got his tactics wrong, as we didn't sit and didn't press (bit like against City) so the responsibility laid on the player's shoulders. Carrick withered and Pogba bottled it.

It's a slight on Carrick but he absolutely has a weakness (more than other comparable players in his position) with regards to being pressed.

He has a weakness but his ability to be able to pass the ball one touch passings and have a height of 189cm and not being too weak in term of strength which allows him to protect the ball are covering the weakness of what people always mention about him can't handle a high pressure because he doesn't have a great dribbling skills or great footwork. But we have to give more credit to Liverpool's player for did the job of man marking Carrick. Carrick is normally good when finding a free space but the Liverpool players were able to follow him whenever he moved.
 
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