In Moyes' defence, that was a very different Liverpool team to the one we played last year.
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I agree with that. Which is why I really think the two of them can and should play together, maybe not all the time but certainly in games where we want extra protection. I disagree in the sense that I think they can both play in the same position but they bring different qualities to the role and I reckon they would complement each other pretty well.
People keep saying that. And if it was just the Liverpool game youd be right, it wouldnt make sense to base too much on it. But it isnt. We've held our own against Chelsea this season as well and did well against City. We have put together a decent winning run and while the naysayers keep decrying the quality of the football, you get to a point in the end where you say this doesnt look like luck anymore, or at least not undeserved, unearned luck. We are making our own luck and grinding out results in some very difficult circumstances. So no, I dont really accept the idea that the result was all down to Liverpool being worse than last year. Even if they werent, the form of De Gea and our results against other good teams tells me we would have had a very good chance against Liverpool anyway. I reckon we would still have beaten them, maybe not by much but even Suarez wouldnt have found a way past De Gea in that form.
What i would say is, fast forward a few years, and carricks unable to play the 90 week in week out, or maybe he moves on elsewhere or something hypothetical, slotting in blind for him wont have the same effect as he has on games. we wont have anyone in the squad who can sit deep and completely control the tempo of the game and im aware these players are hard to come by. If you look at every majorly successful side over the past 10 years, at the heart of the midfield they have had a player of this skillset, (scholes/carrick for us, Xavi and to a degree busquets for barca, Pirlo for juve/milan, Alonso for Pool and madrid and now modric and shweinsteger and martinez for bayern although they are a little less specialised than the others they still fill the job description etc etc)
Maybe somebody like Veratti could be an option a little bit down the line? whose allways been highly rated as the "next best" of this type of player.
Whilst your right, what I would say is don't judge Blind too quickly. Hes only really been playing in midfield recently and he is still learning the game.
He actually has the intelligence and knowledge of the game to develop this skill IMO he definately has the passing range and temprament.
Anyway I'm pretty sure we'll get another CM in the summer too anyway
OK @Oo0AahCantona, that sounds reasonable but what the years trying to replace Keane taught me was this: there is no point trying to find like-for-like replacements for great players. Sometimes you have someone who is special and can do things that others cant do. You can either bang your head against a brick wall trying to find someone who slots in and does the same thing, or you can accept that you probably wont find such a player and give the job to someone with different qualities. The character of the team and the style of play will change but that is probably inevitable and who knows, even if the replacement isnt as good as the guy departing, the overall team might be better. Carrick is no Keane - but the most successful period in our history was arguably after Keane left.
I reckon Carrick has a couple more years left in him and who knows what will happen in that time. But for me, here and now, if you told me Blind will end up replacing Carrick I would have no real problem with that, he seems up to the job. But time will tell, if he isnt then we'll find some other solution. Things never work out quite how you expect them, I think in all honesty the whole Carrick-to-Blind succession story is a bit too neat, the chances are things will pan out differently. Just like Anderson never become the new Scholes, Nani never became the new Giggs and Smalling and Jones probably wont become the new Rio and Vidic.
I reckon Carrick has a couple more years left in him and who knows what will happen in that time. But for me, here and now, if you told me Blind will end up replacing Carrick I would have no real problem with that, he seems up to the job. But time will tell, if he isnt then we'll find some other solution. Things never work out quite how you expect them, I think in all honesty the whole Carrick-to-Blind succession story is a bit too neat, the chances are things will pan out differently. Just like Anderson never become the new Scholes, Nani never became the new Giggs and Smalling and Jones probably wont become the new Rio and Vidic.
he's started the last 6, and we've won them all.
That's not a bad stat for the lad
That's not a bad stat for the lad
hope england and roy continue to ignore carrick. selfish it may sound but i want carrick to play for us for some more years. not playing for his country should prolong his club career.
Blind does it even more than Carrick. If anything he looks even better at that part of the game than Carrick. Carrick i think is better at playing the ball forward from deep though, Blind most likely needs another midfielder to help him with that, at least on what hes done for us so far.
Blind is nowhere near as good as carrick, other than mobility. I like Blind and have warmed a lot towards him, but he's no Carrick.
Noone is saying he is a better player than Carrick. He is better at keeping the ball moving between defence and midfield though. Some of that is down to mobility but i think its quite obvious watching him play which academy Blind came through.
Anyway, this is a Carrick thread. My ideal is that they play alongside each other.
Why can't all of our defenders be as composed as carrick on the ball?
With LVG in charge all our defenders will be so composed eventually.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...-genius-or-mediocre-midfielder-161526752.html
I just thought that's an article that sums up his standing and the reasons for it in English football quite well.
I just thought that's an article that sums up his standing and the reasons for it in English football quite well.
It had crossed my mind that this may be one of the many reasons LVG likes Carrick at the back. It can only help our other center backs playing alongside him, to pick up some of his attributes. Namely his composure and eye for a pass.
Mainly because the training of the british defender relies on other qualities. British defenders are required to get rid of danger and minimum risk when being pressed. Nothing that can't be improved with coaching and practice though and we have already been seeing signs of that from Smalling and McNair.
Lvg will most probably convert him into a sweeper.
Like a chimney sweep?
I just had a vision of Carrick dancing around on the roofs of Manchester like Dick Van Dyke.
I just had a vision of Carrick dancing around on the roofs of Manchester like Dick Van Dyke.
I would say Blind's movement into areas to receive the ball from defense is maybe a little better, but Carricks passing range and pace is definitely better.
If LVG is insistent on contuining with 3-5-2 then Carrick as a cb and blind in the base of midfield could work nicely, pair that with Di Maria and Herrera in midfield with Rvp and Rooney up top and we could have quite a decent base there.
If LVG is insistent on contuining with 3-5-2 then Carrick as a cb and blind in the base of midfield could work nicely, pair that with Di Maria and Herrera in midfield with Rvp and Rooney up top and we could have quite a decent base there.
Hopefully once we get the back 4 settled Carrick returns to playing as a #6 and with two box to box CM's in front of him I think he'll continue on at this level for the next couple of seasons at least, playing in a proper 3 man midfield is ideal for his game.
Indeed. Still waiting to see if Suresh has gotten out of prison
I noticed that there is a discussion about Blind here also, si I decided to post that here too:
I made some comparison for Blind vs Carrick debate. Daley played in 8 games while Carrick played in 7 so far. Bolded games are wins.
Daley Blind:
Michael Carrick:
· With Blind in midfield average is 15 United shots/per game vs 11,9 when Carrick plays
· 12,1 shots of rivals when Blind plays vs 12,7 when Carrick plays.
Obviously, Carrick had to deal with much better opponents but it’s worth mention that in most games he had Fellaini beside him- while Blind was holding the midfield all by himself (in most cases) with many different midfield partners in Herrera, Mata, Di Maria and Valencia.
Looking at those stats I don’t think Carrick made us better defensively. He is a calming presence for the defenders but it will be very interesting to see what van Gaal does once Blind is back. The 6 wins in a row is a combination of luck, De Gea, and strikers hitting the form.
I see Carrick as a better passer but his influence is very reduced in this system we’ve been using lately (3-5-2 and Michael at the back). IMO Carrick is the one we want to use against teams like Hull or QPR. He will not be pressed intensively and will be able to dictate the game from the deep. In other cases I’m of the opinion that Blind is the better option.
I made some comparison for Blind vs Carrick debate. Daley played in 8 games while Carrick played in 7 so far. Bolded games are wins.
Daley Blind:
Michael Carrick:
· With Blind in midfield average is 15 United shots/per game vs 11,9 when Carrick plays
· 12,1 shots of rivals when Blind plays vs 12,7 when Carrick plays.
Obviously, Carrick had to deal with much better opponents but it’s worth mention that in most games he had Fellaini beside him- while Blind was holding the midfield all by himself (in most cases) with many different midfield partners in Herrera, Mata, Di Maria and Valencia.
Looking at those stats I don’t think Carrick made us better defensively. He is a calming presence for the defenders but it will be very interesting to see what van Gaal does once Blind is back. The 6 wins in a row is a combination of luck, De Gea, and strikers hitting the form.
I see Carrick as a better passer but his influence is very reduced in this system we’ve been using lately (3-5-2 and Michael at the back). IMO Carrick is the one we want to use against teams like Hull or QPR. He will not be pressed intensively and will be able to dictate the game from the deep. In other cases I’m of the opinion that Blind is the better option.
Aston Villa 1:1 Man Utd
Makes no sense at all playing our best midfielder and one of the best deep lying midfielders in the league at CB. We had McNair and Blackett on the bench there was no reason for him to play in defense today.
He was magnificent again.
We need to clone Carrick, one for defence and one for midfield, he's so good, he never looks rushed and always looks for the forward ball. One of the best players in the league let alone our team, he's Scholes like in how he plays now, you can see that influence, it show players peak at different times, over the last three years we have seen the best of Carrick and hopefully that will continue on for a while longer.
Didn't think he was at his best today. A lot of loose touches. Still better then our other midfielders and defenders but he's usually better.
If anyone even suggests moving him out of central midfield for no good reason they should be fined a month's wage. Can't wait for Afro, ADM and Ander or Blind to play in a midfield diamond with him at its base. Was always looking up and taking the responsibility to play the incisive over the top ball today and to thread balls forward.
I thought he was a solid six out of ten. Probably more to do with how highly I rate him and what I come to expect of him, but I think describing his performance today as 'magnificent' is a bit much.
Wasted in a back 3, if we have to play that wing back system then start Blackett there and have him further up instead of Fletcher. Rooney was the only other central player even looking for the runs of the forwards. The difference in the 2nd half was clear.
Did his job today but too many in front of him were poor once he dispatched the ball.
Don't understand the need for him to be playing in a back 3 as a CB or playing with a back 3 in midfield, cut out the middle man and play him as a deep lying midfielder and get more bodies forward. That way you have 3 at the back when needed and a midfield anchor when needed. Evans was a waste of body when Carrick moved into midfield, could have done with that extra body upfront.
Kingpin.
A-flipping-men. Starting him in defence - and not in midfield - probably cost us points today.
We need him in midfield.
This shows why we need him in midfield. He may not be the flashiest of passers but in terms of getting the ball into the strikers feet from deep and bypassing the opposition midfield then he is one of the best. Also he only needs 1-2 touches while some of our midfielders are too slow and cumbersome on the ball, we get pressed and they either give it away or have to revert back to the defence. With Carrick, he can take the ball of the defence and play it round the corner first time into the striker's feet or another midfielder.
I can't wait to see how we play when we sort our defence and he's back in midfield. If we play 4-3-3, we would be even better going forward.
I agree, the longer England ignore him the bigger benefit to us.
The difference he made in the second half of that match was noticeable after 30 seconds.
The comparison is useful and informative, but there is one caveat that must be highlighted.I noticed that there is a discussion about Blind here also, si I decided to post that here too:
I made some comparison for Blind vs Carrick debate. Daley played in 8 games while Carrick played in 7 so far. Bolded games are wins.
Daley Blind:
Michael Carrick:
· With Blind in midfield average is 15 United shots/per game vs 11,9 when Carrick plays
· 12,1 shots of rivals when Blind plays vs 12,7 when Carrick plays.
Obviously, Carrick had to deal with much better opponents but it’s worth mention that in most games he had Fellaini beside him- while Blind was holding the midfield all by himself (in most cases) with many different midfield partners in Herrera, Mata, Di Maria and Valencia.
Looking at those stats I don’t think Carrick made us better defensively. He is a calming presence for the defenders but it will be very interesting to see what van Gaal does once Blind is back. The 6 wins in a row is a combination of luck, De Gea, and strikers hitting the form.
I see Carrick as a better passer but his influence is very reduced in this system we’ve been using lately (3-5-2 and Michael at the back). IMO Carrick is the one we want to use against teams like Hull or QPR. He will not be pressed intensively and will be able to dictate the game from the deep. In other cases I’m of the opinion that Blind is the better option.
Carrick played a majority of the time in defence. Blind in midfield.
You are right. The point I was trying to prove is that there is no evidence that Carrick made us better in terms of team performance, or individual performance (compared to Blind). Daley has better stats but his role was a bit different.
In my opinion we can’t say either of them is better as long as we see them performing in the same role with similar players around.
I don’t think playing Carrick so deep is a good idea anyway.
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