Maybe when Salah averages around 4-9 completed dribbles pr match and keeps up his end product he can a lesser clone of Messi.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Maybe when Salah averages around 4-9 completed dribbles pr match and keeps up his end product he can a lesser clone of Messi.
Did say a lesser clone. You don’t really have to agree with me?
Just saying Messi is iconic for his dribbling and was so way before he became a goal machine.
salah is fantastic but well behind Messi when it comes to playmaking, imo
They’ll never be anyone close to Messi but the small player who is deadly with the ball at his feet with low centre of gravity is as close it can get imo.
we will never see anybody like Messi or Ronaldo in our lifetime but we will see poorer imitations who are still world class funnily enough
So has Ronaldo.
Not really
If you say so
Ronaldo has 8 G/A assists in 10 starts in the premier league with each of those goals being either game tying or game winning. He did it with a mostly underwhelming & misfiring United side and with a squad that is 4th at best in the league on paper.
He’s certainly been better than Messi in league play.
Disagree but there’s no point getting into it again.
fair enough my friend
United absolutely had title aspirations going into this season, playing down the squad is foolish.
Since they are two of the greatest to ever do it, will one of them (or both) attempt to play past 40 birthday ? And I don't mean 40 itself. 41,42, or more.
I think Ronaldo much more likely than Messi.
How did I play down the squad? I said it was 4th best which is a more than reasonable assessment. It’s not better than City’s , Liverpool’s or Chelsea’s.
I wouldn’t know. I’ve heard we won’t see another Maradona, then we have Messi. We won’t see anyone surpassing Pele’s record, but then we have Ronaldo.
It’s really hard to predict future really. Maybe one day there will be a perfect player who would win 3 WC like Pele, score 800+ goals like Ronaldo, and dribble/create like Messi/Maradona too. Who knows.
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He could break Ronaldo current CL record though, if he scored avg 10 goals per season over next 12 years. He is 21 so he could reach that by 33, if he could keep up that level, and staying free of any serious injuries. I know it’s a big if but I won’t count him out. He has 23 CL goals in 19 games so far and he is very young, if there’s anyone going to break this record, it’s probably him.
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I think you also need to factor in how poor Man Utd was during most of those matches he scored or didn’t score (with hardly very few chances created). And its surely wasn’t a strong group in CL, but then United wasn’t a strong team under Ole too.
For me Sir Alex Ferguson and Don Diego Simeone settle it:
Highest peak: Messi.
When surrounded by greats his maximum level is unrivalled. His technical level requires other greats to be fully utilized and if they can provide that he is unplayable.
Greatest difference maker: Ronaldo.
No matter what team you put him in Ronaldo will score because he can head the ball, has incredible positioning & finishing.
So they are both the GOAT in a way. Messi is 100 in a Barcelona setting but as seen with NT and PSG perhaps only 93 without.
Ronaldo on the other hand is a 97 no matter where he plays because almost every club can send in crosses or through balls knowing he will convert.
It's like saying Messi is the greatest guitarist or drummer ever if he plays with a band he has known all his life and that also consists of greats. But with an unfamiliar band he drops his level.
Ronaldo could fill in at whatever band on short notice and would always perform incredibly but he lacks the maximum level.
Highest peak: Messi.
When surrounded by greats his maximum level is unrivalled. His technical level requires other greats to be fully utilized and if they can provide that he is unplayable.
Greatest difference maker: Ronaldo.
No matter what team you put him in Ronaldo will score because he can head the ball, has incredible positioning & finishing.
So they are both the GOAT in a way. Messi is 100 in a Barcelona setting but as seen with NT and PSG perhaps only 93 without.
Ronaldo on the other hand is a 97 no matter where he plays because almost every club can send in crosses or through balls knowing he will convert.
It's like saying Messi is the greatest guitarist or drummer ever if he plays with a band he has known all his life and that also consists of greats. But with an unfamiliar band he drops his level.
Ronaldo could fill in at whatever band on short notice and would always perform incredibly but he lacks the maximum level.
I think Ronaldo with his massive ego will want to reach 1000 official goals. If he played until 2026 or 2027 it's not out of reach.
However, it appears that since he left Madrid, he wastes way more chances than he used to when in peak physical form so 900 very likely 1000 may be a step too far.
Good call
Yeh I am guessing 900 too. It’s surely achievable, he has already scored 45 goals this year, and I fully expect him to go for at least another 3 more season after this one before retirement. I also think losing Ballon D’or battle against Messi, would drive him to go further with this record.
For Ronaldo's play style there are two versions imo. The winger who played for United and the great goal scorer later.
I only started watching football for about 30 years so it's kinda impossible for me to discuss about players before that. Imo it's quite hard to actually understand the play style of a player without watching him.
For the last 30 years imo the Ronaldo the winger for United was actually very similar to Thierry Henry. There is an interesting read about his play style and how he changed the game and shaped the role in football. You would see there're considerably similarities between the two. Minus the freekicks of course.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/amp/fea...r-league-player-striker-forward-arsene-wenger
I'm a bit lazy to look into the stats but if my memory serves me right the Ronaldo winger didn't score a lot like his goal scorer version later. His GA per 90' should be likewise with Henry I think.
For the goal scorer version it's easier because imo basically you only have to look at the numbers. For example here, again I'm a bit lazy to look for the stats so it's only for the CL:
https://www.goal.com/en/news/muller...e-champions-league/1m3ih1uoovu1p1ury1otf7ibb4
For the longevity imo it's not really fair and logical to compare current players to the players in the past. Football has changed considerably in the last 20 years with the introduction of sportive science, much more healthy diets and new technologies. The players also are generally a lot more professional and serious in taking care of their body. You didn't see many players at 35+ yo still playing football at the top level back then like today. Most players were finished around 31-33 yo, very few exceptions. Back then football was also much more violent and the defenders made a lot more horrible tackles, which often cause many serious injuries for the attacking players.
Would Messi have been as successful at Italy, England as he has been at Barca?
playing for the best teams those countries had to offer? I think so. For his discouraging league numbers in France he’s still done well enough in CL so far this season.
I think he has 3 distinctive versions - winger, wing forward and poacher
At 18-22 - winger version
- playing mainly as traditional winger in 442 setup
- playing as support role for the team, running down the wings, dribbling and crossing
- mainly focus on skills, tricks, dribbling, and carrying the ball forward with pacey runs
- his game is more about showboating and tricks during freestyle era, with electrifying pace
At 23-30 - wing forward version
- moving to a more advance wing forward role as 3 forward attack system
- adding more end products and lots of goals to his game, and mix with good balance of skills, tricks, pace, dribbling, shooting, finishing and heading
- adopt an all action play style, heavily involving in most of attacking plays for the team in final third, trimming down his dribbling abit in favour of scoring more goals
- beasts mode in counter attack plays
- physically at his peak with unreal athleticism
At 31 to current - poacher version
- still starts mostly on wing forward position, but drift into the box more often as no.9 role
- become less involved in build up play, cutting down more of his dribbling, and focus mainly on scoring goals
- play style changed to become more conserving and efficient, focus more on movements which lead to goal scoring chances, rather than carrying the ball forward, and relies more on his teammates to supply him the final balls
- developed into most clutch player in the game, scoring more goals in bigger moment, breaking records after records, with great mentality and impact
At 18-22 - winger version
- playing mainly as traditional winger in 442 setup
- playing as support role for the team, running down the wings, dribbling and crossing
- mainly focus on skills, tricks, dribbling, and carrying the ball forward with pacey runs
- his game is more about showboating and tricks during freestyle era, with electrifying pace
At 23-30 - wing forward version
- moving to a more advance wing forward role as 3 forward attack system
- adding more end products and lots of goals to his game, and mix with good balance of skills, tricks, pace, dribbling, shooting, finishing and heading
- adopt an all action play style, heavily involving in most of attacking plays for the team in final third, trimming down his dribbling abit in favour of scoring more goals
- beasts mode in counter attack plays
- physically at his peak with unreal athleticism
At 31 to current - poacher version
- still starts mostly on wing forward position, but drift into the box more often as no.9 role
- become less involved in build up play, cutting down more of his dribbling, and focus mainly on scoring goals
- play style changed to become more conserving and efficient, focus more on movements which lead to goal scoring chances, rather than carrying the ball forward, and relies more on his teammates to supply him the final balls
- developed into most clutch player in the game, scoring more goals in bigger moment, breaking records after records, with great mentality and impact
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Please point out the magical page where this thread has been anything other than a shitshow
Fair point, but they were collectively dragging it down to a fresh nadir.Please point out the magical page where this thread has been anything other than a shitshow
In his prime i think he would have been succesfull. I dont know if he would have been as succesfull as he was at Barca. The greater the setup the more a player can strut his stuff. Inter met his release clause of 150 mil euro when he was 18. They certainly didnt doubt him.
Just popped in to check out this thread. That was a mistake.
I thought he could do it under any manager and any setup. But it seems like he still needs service and cant play goalkeeper and striker at the same time.
I can't remember but did Ronaldo ever need a "time to settle in" ?
The only time I can kind of remember is at United when he had hardly grown in to the player or position he has been playing ever since.
The only time I can kind of remember is at United when he had hardly grown in to the player or position he has been playing ever since.
Has Messi confirmed his reasons for joining PSG and Ligue One yet?
So this thread is now about "let's find out what each other is worse at and throw it around"?
When was it not?
They finished second under Ole last season and they have the second most expensive squad in Europe, Red. Not in England, in Europe. City have the most expensive squad in Europe, they’re top on 35 points. Chelsea have the third most, they’re third on 33 points. United are 6th on 24 points. We can continue to blame Ole for that start but the players must also take responsibility, including Ronaldo.
Gerd Muller
Of course we are supposed to do much better. But what I mean is, those are not easy games for us as we have been underperforming, and it’s harder to score more goals under a team which has been underperforming for a while.
If we look at other forwards/attackers in our team:
Bruno - 5 goals in 21 games
Greenwood - 5 goals in 15 games
Rashford - 3 goals in 11 games
Sancho - 2 goals in 18 games
They are all struggling abit this season with goals and performance for an underperforming team.
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But Ronaldo hasn’t stopped scoring CL goals. That’s why I’m so confident. And 10 goals a season is a lot, he got 10 last year and was top scorer and this season it’s what? 3? That’s a lot to ask. Ronaldo this season just scored more than Haaland so that’s added another year added on and Ronaldo hasn’t finished yet.
Ratios mean little. Ronaldo turned fromwinger into a goal score at what? 23? So he had a lot of games to dilute his ratio. It’s the same as Messi but in reverse. Say his struggles in France continues and he sees his career out elsewhere at a lower level. That dilution of his goal per game ratio doesn’t lessen his accomplishments. The same at Lewandowski is an all time great goal scorers but didn’t really cement elite status until late 20s.
Ronaldo from 30 onwards alone has a goal scoring record that outdoes anybody. Almost a goal a game in 7 years. It’s easy to judge great goal scorers, how many goals have they scored?
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