Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Daysleeper]

When did I say anything about nothing players or useless players?

Do try not to invent thing I didn't say.

I can't believe you're trying to debate that most players are nearing retirement at mid-30s, do you really want to compare the number of players who have retired by 36 and those who haven't?

Best ever international tournament?

How about the fact that he joined by far the best team in a farmer league and has yet to score in said league?

That’s fine, he’s still scored against City and Lepzeig, Ronaldo has yet to score against a top 6 team so far this season.

 

[Gehrman]

https://freeimage.host/i/5A5WQt

 

[Cal?]

No, Messi had real problems with fitness in his early years.

And?

Teams win trophies. Great players (and indeed great dribblers) are remembered whether they win or not.

That's why the likes of Denilson are remembered fondly as great players.

It's close in a United forum (where Cristiano is a legend) btw.

Imagine the same poll in a from from a team that isn't Real Madrid or United.

I already posted one a few pages back on Marca which Ronaldo won

You said dribbling means ‘feck all’ unless it results in a goal. That is an asinine statement, with all due etc.

I said chances created. Go check!

Why would I do that? We’re talking about Messi and Ronaldo.

I expect Ronaldo to retire after Messi, wanna bet?

Yeah you know. The one where Argentina were champions and he was the best player with the most goals and most assists. Has never happened in the history of international football. Surely you can’t have forgotten already?

The one where he disappeared against the only decent team he faced and did his usual stats padding against the minnows?

Cal: “YEAH, HOW ABOUT IT?!?!”

The facts:

https://freeimage.host/i/5A5WQt

Did some of your fellow Messi brigade members make that at home?

 

[Cal?]

That’s fine, he’s still scored against City and Lepzeig, Ronaldo has yet to score against a top 6 team so far this season.

How many times has he played said top 6 teams? West Ham are closer to the top of the PL table than Leipzig are in the Bundesliga table.

 

[Henandez14]

Cal? Is right. Dribbling means feck all unless it results in a goal. The question is, what actions prior to the assist can we discount as not resulting in a goal.
Eg
Scenario 1. A dribbles six players and scores
Scenario 2. A dribbles six players and squares it to B for a easy tap in
Scenario 3. A dribbles 6 players and passes to B, who then passes to C who is unmarked because A dribbled 6 players.
Scenario 4. A evades pressure from 6 players in his own half, creating a numerical overload in the opponents half. A passes to B. B starts a counterattack that leads in D scoring.
Scenario 5 A draws a foul in the opponents half. E scores from the resulting free kick.

The problem is Cal? believes that the dribbles resulted in the goal in only the first two scenarios, while others see that the dribbles resulted in a goal in all 5 scenarios

 

[Swoobs]

Cal? Is right. Dribbling means feck all unless it results in a goal. The question is, what actions prior to the assist can we discount as not resulting in a goal.
Eg
Scenario 1. A dribbles six players and scores
Scenario 2. A dribbles six players and squares it to B for a easy tap in
Scenario 3. A dribbles 6 players and passes to B, who then passes to C who is unmarked because A dribbled 6 players.
Scenario 4. A evades pressure from 6 players in his own half, creating a numerical overload in the opponents half. A passes to B. B starts a counterattack that leads in D scoring.
Scenario 5 A draws a foul in the opponents half. E scores from the resulting free kick.

The problem is Cal? believes that the dribbles resulted in the goal in only the first two scenarios, while others see that the dribbles resulted in a goal in all 5 scenarios

No, the problem is Cal? is too religious to his cult of CR7, that anything anyone else does better than his god and holy spirit CR7 is deemed worthless to his eyes. Has he been appointed as the pope of the cult or the chief of the CR7 50cents army yet?

 

[NasirTimothy]

And?

And that’s why he got less votes. As soon as he was fit throughout the seasons he got more votes, including 4 straight wins. Because he’s better at football.

That's why the likes of Denilson are remembered fondly as great players.

This again. You really need to try and think of some other players. You keep choosing one who by common consensus didn’t fulfil his potential. Why is that?

I said chances created. Go check!

Still silly

I expect Ronaldo to retire after Messi, wanna bet?

You have no idea whether that will happen or not. We were talking about Ballon D’Or votes. Who will get more this year? Next year?

The one where he disappeared against the only decent team he faced and did his usual stats padding against the minnows?

Yeah, shame no other player in the history of international football could statpad to that degree eh? Least of all Cristiano. He can’t even statpad his way to a best player award in a competition that his team won. His performances were that average

Did some of your fellow Messi brigade members make that at home?

Cal’s got his tinfoil hat on again, oh dear….

I know it’s hard for you to accept the truth, but please try. Gerd Muller is not a better footballer than Diego Maradona (or even Franz Beckenbauer). Football is about more than goal scoring. This is a truth immemorial. There’s nothing you can do to change that.

 

[Daysleeper]

How many times has he played said top 6 teams? West Ham are closer to the top of the PL table than Leipzig are in the Bundesliga table.

As many times as Messi

 

[RedRonaldo]

This is not a Messi vs Ronaldo argument.

But I actually do think people tend to overrate dribbling abit too much. Sure it’s was entertaining and great to watch, especially when it leads to something.

I just somehow remember there was a great dribbler from Argentina in 90’s, called Ortega, who was compared to Maradona. Extremely talented players in terms of dribbling, but also somehow frustrating player to watch as he tends to “over dribble” abit too much to which, from my memory, often leads to nowhere. Batistuta though, was playing alongside him in Argentina, was far more highly regarded even though he was less a dribbler but more of goalscorer and match winner.

And I think in recent years, best dribbler in the game is Traore from Wolves. His style is different as he relies heavily on pace and strength rather than skills to dribble past opponents, but he got very high dribble stats anyway, 6.1 dribble per game this season, by far the highest in Europe. He is kind of “pointless” footballer though with no end products.

But then of course, Messi being great footballer, goalscorer and dribbler, so this does not apply to him at all.

But what I am trying to say, is dribbling doesn’t equal to greatness, at least I don’t see it as necessarily greater attributes than other things in football. It rather abit of an overrated stats in competitive football, where understandingly it happens that many people like watching. Haaland doesn’t dribble, but I’d have him over any other younger players in the world today, who are far better dribbler than him.

 

[Lord SInister]

This is not a Messi vs Ronaldo argument.

But I actually do think people tend to overrate dribbling abit too much. Sure it’s was entertaining and great to watch, especially when it leads to something.

I just somehow remember there was a great dribbler from Argentina in 90’s, called Ortega, who was compared to Maradona. Extremely talented players in terms of dribbling, but also somehow frustrating player to watch as he tends to “over dribble” abit too much to which, from my memory, often leads to nowhere. Batistuta though, was playing alongside him in Argentina, was far more highly regarded even though he was less a dribbler but more of goalscorer and match winner.

And I think in recent years, best dribbler in the game is Traore from Wolves. His style is different as he relies heavily on pace and strength to dribble past opponents, but he got very high dribble stats anyway, 6.1 dribble per game this season, by far the highest in Europe. He is kind of “pointless” footballer though with no end products.

But then of course, Messi being great footballer, goalscorer and dribbler, so this does not apply to him at all.

Nothing on the pitch is pointless.
But the thing is attacking players are rated as such:

Player A is someone who is not that involved in the overall play and isn't that great on the ball but can score goal.
Player B is someone who is massively talented on the ball, but has shit goal contribution or chance creation.
Player C who is great on the ball and also scores a lot and creates heavily.

Than most of the sane football fans will consider Player C>Player A>Player B.

Messi and even a young Cristiano were the player C(Cristiano became more of a player A latter on, but he still isn't exactly a A only Player if we see overall), Player A is more the likes of Lukaku(although he is has shown he can be more involved than a typical A) or Chicharito and so on, and Player B is more like Adama, Dembele, Denilson and so on.

Messi vs Ronaldo, was a earlier a C vs C debate, which latter became A vs C, because Cristiano changed his whole game to becoming more a AC hybrid were A was dominating the C. While Messi always remained a C, even during his 91 goals year.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Nothing on the pitch is pointless.
But the thing is attacking players are rated as such:

Player A is someone who is not that involved in the overall play and isn't that great on the ball but can score goal.
Player B is someone who is massively talented on the ball, but has shit goal contribution or chance creation.
Player C who is great on the ball and also scores a lot and creates heavily.

Than most of the sane football fans will consider Player C>Player A>Player B.

Messi and even a young Cristiano were the player C(Cristiano became more of a player A latter on, but he still isn't exactly a A only Player if we see overall), Player A is more the likes of Lukaku(although he is has shown he can be more involved than a typical A) or Chicharito and so on, and Player B is more like Adama, Dembele, Denilson and so on.

Messi vs Ronaldo, was a earlier a C vs C debate, which latter became A vs C, because Cristiano changed his whole game to becoming more a AC hybrid were A was dominating the C. While Messi always remained a C, even during his 91 goals year.

I’ve heard this argument a lot, to which I agree to certain extent. But I think football is simply more than just A, B or C scenario. For example, there are also match winning impact, big game influence and clutchness comes to play, which would introduce a whole new dimension outside of the whole A, B, C scenario.

 

[Lord SInister]

I’ve heard this argument a lot, to which I agree to certain extent. But I think football is simply more than just A, B or C scenario. For example, there are also match winning impact, big game influence and clutchness comes to play, which would introduce a whole new dimension outside of the whole A, B, C scenario.

Those thing are there when people go deeper, but for eye test or general overview, it is generally the A, B, C criteria which goes around. Hence dribbling is seen as a superior weapon in a player's arsenal, especially when the productivity is same or similar range between two players. That is why we have many taking prime Hazard over prime Salah, even though Salah is a much dangerous goal threat. But since the production of Hazard in his role as a creator is so high(he has had seasons were he had crazy numbers in chance creation while also being a decent goal threat for a winger), many are still willing to take him over Salah, even though Salah has performed much better in the UCL than Hazard has ever done.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Those thing are there when people go deeper, but for eye test or general overview, it is generally the A, B, C criteria which goes around. Hence dribbling is seen as a superior weapon in a player's arsenal, especially when the productivity is same or similar range between two players. That is why we have many taking prime Hazard over prime Salah, even though Salah is a much dangerous goal threat. But since the production of Hazard in his role as a creator is so high(he has had seasons were he had crazy numbers in chance creation while also being a decent goal threat for a winger), many are still willing to take him over Salah, even though Salah has performed much better in the UCL than Hazard has ever done.

Sure, but with 634 pages of discussion already in this thread, I thought we could proceed to something a little bit “deeper”.

 

[Lord SInister]

Sure, but with 634 pages of discussion already in this thread, I thought we could proceed to something a little bit “deeper”.

Messi vs Cristiano discussion is stupid tbh, because a person who has made up their mind is not going to change it, unless Messi or Cristiano had a great slump since their breakthrough. But the thing is neither of them had a slump in their whole career, yes both had tournaments where they were bad, had few below their performances in key matches or could not win titles, but they never had a bad season, even their worst seasons are better than most players best seasons.

And the way they improved on their weakness is remarkable.

Cristiano was criticized for being a flashy show boasting with no much end product, he absolutely smashed those criticism with his numbers.

Cristiano was criticized for not doing it big matches at first, than he ridiculed his critics with his champions league heroics.

Messi was criticized for not having the ability to score from fks and long range, he absolutely destroyed those myths.

Was criticized for having it easy with Xavi and Iniesta, won Ballon Dor and carried Barcelona post them, while still winning Golden Shoes and breaking assist records.

With these two players it was never like the other player comparisons, because these two are the most competitive players ever born, they just do not have bad seasons. It is difficult for people to change their mind, and this silly discussions go on and on.

Hence in this debate everything is clutching the straw. It is just a fun pass time now for most.

 

[Cal?]

And that’s why he got less votes. As soon as he was fit throughout the seasons he got more votes, including 4 straight wins. Because he’s better at football.



This again. You really need to try and think of some other players. You keep choosing one who by common consensus didn’t fulfil his potential. Why is that?



Still silly



You have no idea whether that will happen or not. We were talking about Ballon D’Or votes. Who will get more this year? Next year?



Yeah, shame no other player in the history of international football could statpad to that degree eh? Least of all Cristiano. He can’t even statpad his way to a best player award in a competition that his team won. His performances were that average



Cal’s got his tinfoil hat on again, oh dear….

I know it’s hard for you to accept the truth, but please try. Gerd Muller is not a better footballer than Diego Maradona (or even Franz Beckenbauer). Football is about more than goal scoring. This is a truth immemorial. There’s nothing you can do to change that.

He got more votes when his team dominated, like Ronaldo did in when Real dominated.

There are plenty of great dribblers who kept going down blind alleys, dribbling in itself is kind of pointless unless it leads somewhere.

Who knows who’ll get more votes next year, even if Messi does get more this year, Ronaldo will still have won more head to head years

You posted one graphic that doesn’t show anything except some kind of chart with no source, excuse me for being skeptical

 

[Gehrman]

Looks like Messi won't be winning his 7th Ballon D'or afterall.

 

[NasirTimothy]

He got more votes when his team dominated, like Ronaldo did in when Real dominated.

In 50 years time, no one will remember who got more votes in each year (apart from you, nattering on to your grandkids). That’s why it’s a crazy thing to keep harping on about. I mean who got more BDO votes, Van Basten or Platini? Cruyff or Beckenbauer? You don’t know unless you look it up. And why would you waste your time doing something like that?

What people will remember is who got more awards. Right now that’s Messi.

There are plenty of great dribblers who kept going down blind alleys, dribbling in itself is kind of pointless unless it leads somewhere.

No, it’s useful for many reasons other than that.

Football is a game played with 20 outfield operators, right? If you can beat a player or two, it creates space.

Everything’s about space in football: moving from one area on the pitch to another with the ball is the basis of every attacking move. You can do this via a combination of passing and ball-carrying.

You have the option of hitting it long but having a player who can beat an opponent and turn a defensive moment into a situation where the ball carrying team bypasses the midfield is very useful.

And here’s the kicker: even if these moments don’t end up amounting to a well-constructed attacking situation, they can at the very least give the dribbler’s team a rest from the defensive pressure sustained by the opponent.

Also, fouls are often won this way: giving the dribbler’s team an extra opportunity to threaten their opponents and extend their time on the ball.

Even dribbling from deep can be used disrupt a low block, by attracting players to the carrier. This frees up teammates for a passing move to happen.

The opposing team has to commit another player that wouldn’t have had to deal with the runner otherwise and the domino effect leads to a less organized defensive shape that can potentially be exploited.

By repeatedly bringing up Denilson, you obviously erroneously believe that only a certain type of player (e.g. a fancy Dan luxury winger) dribbles. All kinds of players dribble for all kinds of reasons all over the pitch. Cf Andres Iniesta for example, a fantastic dribbler.

This is why dribbling is a key resource for any successful team.

I can’t believe I have to explain this to someone who purports to be a fan of this sport……

Who knows who’ll get more votes next year, even if Messi does get more this year, Ronaldo will still have won more head to head years

See above

You posted one graphic that doesn’t show anything except some kind of chart with no source, excuse me for being skeptical

I mean, it’s pretty clear what the graphic shows if you look at it properly.

What’s more, although it only shows stats from games in October per 90 mins, it’s pretty representative of their careers as a whole. That’s why Messi is a better player and always has been.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi vs Cristiano discussion is stupid tbh, because a person who has made up their mind is not going to change it, unless Messi or Cristiano had a great slump since their breakthrough. But the thing is neither of them had a slump in their whole career, yes both had tournaments where they were bad, had few below their performances in key matches or could not win titles, but they never had a bad season, even their worst seasons are better than most players best seasons.

And the way they improved on their weakness is remarkable.

Cristiano was criticized for being a flashy show boasting with no much end product, he absolutely smashed those criticism with his numbers.

Cristiano was criticized for not doing it big matches at first, than he ridiculed his critics with his champions league heroics.

Messi was criticized for not having the ability to score from fks and long range, he absolutely destroyed those myths.

Was criticized for having it easy with Xavi and Iniesta, won Ballon Dor and carried Barcelona post them, while still winning Golden Shoes and breaking assist records.

With these two players it was never like the other player comparisons, because these two are the most competitive players ever born, they just do not have bad seasons. It is difficult for people to change their mind, and this silly discussions go on and on.

Hence in this debate everything is clutching the straw. It is just a fun pass time now for most.

Yeh I think I more or less agree with what you’ve said here. It’s impossible to convince anyone from the either sides anyway, but I think we don’t have to. I see there are various degree of validity from either sides, just that sometimes people tend to overstate or understate something which would inevitably trigger a response here and there.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Looks like Messi won't be winning his 7th Ballon D'or afterall.

Very much so. Lewa is now the bookies favourite after the leak (Messi was the favourite for ages) so it looks like they’re taking the leak seriously.

I think it’s largely because Lewa didn’t get it last year when he was the clear top candidate.

Never mind though, Messi will still get more votes than Ronaldo, and according to Cal, that’s what counts. Not the actual award or anything…..

 

[Gehrman]

Very much so. Lewa is now the bookies favourite after the leak (Messi was the favourite for ages) so it looks like they’re taking the leak seriously.

I think it’s largely because Lewa didn’t get it last year when he was the clear top candidate.

Never mind though, Messi will still get more votes than Ronaldo, and according to Cal, that’s what counts. Not the actual award or anything…..

Lewa deserves it as much as anyone tbf. 50/50 between him and Messi.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Lewa deserves it as much as anyone tbf. 50/50 between him and Messi.

Yeah I’m not saying at all that he doesn’t deserve it this year. It’s just that this year it’s much more debatable compared to last year when he was the stand out candidate.

 

[The Corinthian]

1 goal & 1 assist from Ronaldo.

0 from Messi.

Is this even a debate anymore? @Samid

 

[MrEleson]

Messi is looking very off and disinterested at 34 while Ronaldo is still as motivated as ever at nearly 37.

The season is long though so let’s see what happens

 

[Samid]

1 goal & 1 assist from Ronaldo.

0 from Messi.

Is this even a debate anymore? @Samid

On the field it hasn't been a debate for years. Now it isn't even a debate off the field either.

 

[Gehrman]

Messi is looking very off and disinterested at 34 while Ronaldo is still as motivated as ever at nearly 37.

The season is long though so let’s see what happens

No doubt Ronaldo has had a better 2021-2022 season so far. I think Ronaldo will always win in longevity.

 

[Morty_]

No doubt Ronaldo has had a better 2021-2022 season so far. I think Ronaldo will always win in longevity.

And yet, Messi is still winning Ballon Dors, while Ronaldo isn't particulary near it.

Tbf, Ronaldo is older though.

 

[NasirTimothy]

On the field it hasn't been a debate for years. Now it isn't even a debate off the field either.

I really like this guy’s comedy posts

 

[Gehrman]

And yet, Messi is still winning Ballon Dors, while Ronaldo isn't particulary near it.

Tbf, Ronaldo is older though.

Messi hasn't won the 2021 yet and yeah Ronaldo is 2,5 years older.

 

[KirkDuyt]

This is not a Messi vs Ronaldo argument.

But I actually do think people tend to overrate dribbling abit too much. Sure it’s was entertaining and great to watch, especially when it leads to something.

I just somehow remember there was a great dribbler from Argentina in 90’s, called Ortega, who was compared to Maradona. Extremely talented players in terms of dribbling, but also somehow frustrating player to watch as he tends to “over dribble” abit too much to which, from my memory, often leads to nowhere. Batistuta though, was playing alongside him in Argentina, was far more highly regarded even though he was less a dribbler but more of goalscorer and match winner.

And I think in recent years, best dribbler in the game is Traore from Wolves. His style is different as he relies heavily on pace and strength rather than skills to dribble past opponents, but he got very high dribble stats anyway, 6.1 dribble per game this season, by far the highest in Europe. He is kind of “pointless” footballer though with no end products.

But then of course, Messi being great footballer, goalscorer and dribbler, so this does not apply to him at all.

But what I am trying to say, is dribbling doesn’t equal to greatness, at least I don’t see it as necessarily greater attributes than other things in football. It rather abit of an overrated stats in competitive football, where understandingly it happens that many people like watching. Haaland doesn’t dribble, but I’d have him over any other younger players in the world today, who are far better dribbler than him.

Ortega is surely most famous for his leprechaun headbutt on Van der Sar?

 

[Zehner]

This is not a Messi vs Ronaldo argument.

But I actually do think people tend to overrate dribbling abit too much. Sure it’s was entertaining and great to watch, especially when it leads to something.

I just somehow remember there was a great dribbler from Argentina in 90’s, called Ortega, who was compared to Maradona. Extremely talented players in terms of dribbling, but also somehow frustrating player to watch as he tends to “over dribble” abit too much to which, from my memory, often leads to nowhere. Batistuta though, was playing alongside him in Argentina, was far more highly regarded even though he was less a dribbler but more of goalscorer and match winner.

And I think in recent years, best dribbler in the game is Traore from Wolves. His style is different as he relies heavily on pace and strength rather than skills to dribble past opponents, but he got very high dribble stats anyway, 6.1 dribble per game this season, by far the highest in Europe. He is kind of “pointless” footballer though with no end products.

But then of course, Messi being great footballer, goalscorer and dribbler, so this does not apply to him at all.

But what I am trying to say, is dribbling doesn’t equal to greatness, at least I don’t see it as necessarily greater attributes than other things in football. It rather abit of an overrated stats in competitive football, where understandingly it happens that many people like watching. Haaland doesn’t dribble, but I’d have him over any other younger players in the world today, who are far better dribbler than him.

If his dribbles lead nowhere, he wasn't a great dribbler. Same applies to Traore.

 

[Cal?]

In 50 years time, no one will remember who got more votes in each year (apart from you, nattering on to your grandkids). That’s why it’s a crazy thing to keep harping on about. I mean who got more BDO votes, Van Basten or Platini? Cruyff or Beckenbauer? You don’t know unless you look it up. And why would you waste your time doing something like that?

What people will remember is who got more awards. Right now that’s Messi.

In 50 years time, no one will remember who scored lots of goals in La Liga, but they will remember who won more CLs.

They won't remember who captained Argentina to one of their 15 Copas (as of now), they WILL remember who captained Portugal to their first ever international trophy.

No, it’s useful for many reasons other than that.

Football is a game played with 20 outfield operators, right? If you can beat a player or two, it creates space.

Everything’s about space in football: moving from one area on the pitch to another with the ball is the basis of every attacking move. You can do this via a combination of passing and ball-carrying.

You have the option of hitting it long but having a player who can beat an opponent and turn a defensive moment into a situation where the ball carrying team bypasses the midfield is very useful.

And here’s the kicker: even if these moments don’t end up amounting to a well-constructed attacking situation, they can at the very least give the dribbler’s team a rest from the defensive pressure sustained by the opponent.

Also, fouls are often won this way: giving the dribbler’s team an extra opportunity to threaten their opponents and extend their time on the ball.

Even dribbling from deep can be used disrupt a low block, by attracting players to the carrier. This frees up teammates for a passing move to happen.

The opposing team has to commit another player that wouldn’t have had to deal with the runner otherwise and the domino effect leads to a less organized defensive shape that can potentially be exploited.

By repeatedly bringing up Denilson, you obviously erroneously believe that only a certain type of player (e.g. a fancy Dan luxury winger) dribbles. All kinds of players dribble for all kinds of reasons all over the pitch. Cf Andres Iniesta for example, a fantastic dribbler.

This is why dribbling is a key resource for any successful team.

You're just given a summary on why "successful dribbles" is one of the stats listed, the same way as "headers won" or "tackles won", it's mostly a positive but doesn't necessarily mean much.

I'm not saying this in direct relation to Messi cos he does have excellent footballing intelligence, but some player who insists on dribbling when team-mates are better positioned and refuses to pass causes a lot of harm to their team.

I can’t believe I have to explain this to someone who purports to be a fan of this sport……

I've said many times I'm a United fan more than I'm a football fan.

See above

I mean, it’s pretty clear what the graphic shows if you look at it properly.

What’s more, although it only shows stats from games in October per 90 mins, it’s pretty representative of their careers as a whole. That’s why Messi is a better player and always has been.

You're entitled to an opinion, but it's this holier than thou attitude that is common amongst you Messi brigade that is really annoying. You state your opinions as facts and then dismisses everyone who disagree with you, it's almost like a cult or the Republican party.

 

[Cal?]

If his dribbles lead nowhere, he wasn't a great dribbler. Same applies to Traore.

That's what I've been getting at for the last few pages.

 

[Orton]

In 50 years time, no one will remember who scored lots of goals in La Liga, but they will remember who won more CLs.

They won't remember who captained Argentina to one of their 15 Copas (as of now), they WILL remember who captained Portugal to their first ever international trophy.


You're just given a summary on why "successful dribbles" is one of the stats listed, the same way as "headers won" or "tackles won", it's mostly a positive but doesn't necessarily mean much.

I'm not saying this in direct relation to Messi cos he does have excellent footballing intelligence, but some player who insists on dribbling when team-mates are better positioned and refuses to pass causes a lot of harm to their team.


I've said many times I'm a United fan more than I'm a football fan.


You're entitled to an opinion, but it's this holier than thou attitude that is common amongst you Messi brigade that is really annoying. You state your opinions as facts and then dismisses everyone who disagree with you, it's almost like a cult or the Republican party.

Wasn’t that Pepe?

 

[Zehner]

That's what I've been getting at for the last few pages.

Then you've been off topic because that's not an issue for Ronaldo and even less so for Messi.

 

[Cal?]

Wasn’t that Pepe?

 

[Cal?]

Then you've been off topic because that's not an issue for Ronaldo and even less so for Messi.

This is about the uselessness of the "successful dribble" stat

 

[ForeverRed1]

Ronaldo is outshining messi as things stand. Two years older and in a tougher league.

backs what fergie said years ago. Ronnie is the best because he does it Where ever he goes. Week in week out.

even when the chips are down.. he comes through. The athlete that he is, the mentality.. sets him apart from anyone else, messi included.

 

[Daysleeper]

We will never have a thread like this over two other players ever again

 

[Cal?]

We will never have a thread like this over two other players ever again

We won't be seeing 2 players so clearly way better than everyone else in the world for a long long time.

 

[Pickle85]

We will never have a thread like this over two other players ever again

Let's hope you're right!