Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[SportingCP96]

The 36 year old threw himself at that retirement league and got rejected. Hardly a different cloth.

Now, let's see whether he can close that Balón d'or and Golden Boot gap, because his rival seems have them on lock.

Yet somehow he ended up in the most difficult league in the world.

Messi needs to do more to catch him at this point. At least another CL.

 

[pav1790]

Never touched this thread with a ten foot pole, never desired to do so - in the five plus years of its existence despite it being on the front page regularly. But now that Ronnie is a united player again, the vote is clear. I am excited for us in a way that I wouldn't be if Messi came to us, for example. I was bitter about what seemed like constant links back that never materialized. But he's finally here. He's our lad. And we have to go for him now; really, it's only the decent thing to do as a united fan.

 

[Traub]

If CR7 leads us to a PL and / or CL, he is the GOAT for me. We’ve been so far off the pace for almost a decade now.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

the main reason is they spent 9 years in the same league, Messi was the leading force behind 6 of those Liga wins and CR7 the force for only 2, to me that really nails it. ... performances over 38 games year after year in the league is, to me, the best indication of who the best player is

The problem with this argument is that, according to the numbers, Real Madrid conceded more goals than Barcelona on every season that Ronaldo was there. The difference was often stark, for example 21 to 38 during the 2015 treble winning season. That season, Ronaldo scored 48 goals in the league alone. That shows being a 'leading force' doesn't necessarily win you anything.

All of this suggests that winning leagues has as much to do with the quality around you than with what you can provide.

 

[Swoobs]

Yet somehow he ended up in the most difficult league in the world.

Messi needs to do more to catch him at this point. At least another CL.

Ah since you want to go down this route, CR7 has to at least reach a World Cup Final to catch Messi. See how easy it is to counter your logic?

 

[fck]

You get the feeling that this thread is pretty pointless anyway because there are too many biased people in here. To learn that a portuguese Sporting fan believes that Ronaldo is the better footballer is one of the more unsurprising opinions I've heard. Doesn't mean that this opinion is wrong of course but let's be honest it's almost pointless. Thankfully I don't have this problem since I neither share the nationality nor do I have a club affinity to all clubs involved. I think one player is better because I believe that he is and not because I want him to be better. Doesn't make me right but it's definitely a big advantage in this discussion.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Ah since you want to go down this route, CR7 has to at least reach a World Cup Final to catch Messi. See how easy it is to counter your logic?

Runner ups. Only winners are remembered in history. Why should Ronaldo have to lose a WC finals to catch Messi? Loll


(…let alone talk about Messi’s goal scoring record in the WC knockout stages)

 

[NasirTimothy]

You get the feeling that this thread is pretty pointless anyway because there are too many biased people in here. To learn that a portuguese Sporting fan believes that Ronaldo is the better footballer is one of the more unsurprising opinions I've heard. Doesn't mean that this opinion is wrong of course but let's be honest it's almost pointless. Thankfully I don't have this problem since I neither share the nationality nor do I have a club affinity to all clubs involved. I think one player is better because I believe that he is and not because I want him to be better. Doesn't make me right but it's definitely a big advantage in this discussion.

Same. I’m not Portuguese, not Argentine, not a fan of any of the clubs either of them have played for. I just use the evidence of my eyes. I’d imagine that most people in a similar position say Messi because he’s better at playing football. Objectively.

 

[Pickle85]

Ah since you want to go down this route, CR7 has to at least reach a World Cup Final to catch Messi. See how easy it is to counter your logic?

The famous second place trophy. How it resonates through the ages! Losing a world cup final...what footballers aspire to!

 

[NasirTimothy]

If CR7 leads us to a PL and / or CL, he is the GOAT for me. We’ve been so far off the pace for almost a decade now.

He will never be better than Pele, Maradona or Messi whatever he does this season or for the rest of his career.

 

[Saffron]

(…let alone talk about Messi’s goal scoring record in the WC knockout stages)

Oh you mean just like Ronaldo’s grand total of 0 goals in WC knockout matches?

 

[NasirTimothy]

Runner ups. Only winners are remembered in history. Why should Ronaldo have to lose a WC finals to catch Messi? Loll


(…let alone talk about Messi’s goal scoring record in the WC knockout stages)

Actually false. People remember Brazil in 1982, Holland in 74 and Hungary in 1954. Often more than the winners of those tournaments. There’s just been a whole book published about the Brazil 1982 team, you should read it.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yet somehow he ended up in the most difficult league in the world.

Messi needs to do more to catch him at this point. At least another CL.

He doesn’t need to do more to catch him because he’s already way ahead of him and always has been. It’s Ronaldo that is trying to catch Messi by ticking boxes (goal records, different leagues etc). Sadly it doesn’t work like that. How many goal records does Maradona own? Even his Napoli one has been broken.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Not the case at all. What Messi is good at is often easier on the eye when it comes to dribbling past players so folks who don't totally understand the game think the competition isn't even close.

I understand the game. It’s not about being easier on the eye. It’s about the fact that dribbling past a lot of players is actually very difficult. As is providing pinpoint defence splitting passes. These are rare skills. Ronaldo has become exceptionally good at executing skills that are not so rare.

 

[Swoobs]

The famous second place trophy. How it resonates through the ages! Losing a world cup final...what footballers aspire to!

Is reaching a final not a greater achievement than not reaching a final?

 

[Swoobs]

Runner ups. Only winners are remembered in history. Why should Ronaldo have to lose a WC finals to catch Messi? Loll


(…let alone talk about Messi’s goal scoring record in the WC knockout stages)

Again, is reaching a final not a greater achievement versus not reaching a final? So based on your logic as long as one did not win the whole thing, being knocked out in the group stages in the last place is as good as reaching but losing the final?

 

[Pickle85]

Is reaching a final not a greater achievement than not reaching a final?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. That Messi has had a better international career because he has a world cup runners up medal? Using losing in a final as a proof of a side's greatness is a little bit of a reach, no?

 

[Swoobs]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. That Messi has had a better international career because he has a world cup runners up medal? Using losing in a final as a proof of a side's greatness is a little bit of a reach, no?

Is it that hard to answer the question? Is reaching but losing a final a greater achievement than not even reaching a final? Be objective, answer the question and you will see if its a bit of a reach or not

 

[NasirTimothy]

Again, is reaching a final not a greater achievement versus not reaching a final? So based on your logic as long as one did not win the whole thing, being knocked out in the group stages in the last place is as good as reaching but losing the final?

Well in fairness, Ronaldo did reach a World Cup semi final with the Portugal team of WC 2006.

 

[Oly Francis]

Not the case at all. What Messi is good at is often easier on the eye when it comes to dribbling past players so folks who don't totally understand the game think the competition isn't even close.

Ronaldo is good at scoring goals, there's littleraly nothing easier on the eye than that. Both sects are the same, and it's pretty obvious reading through this topic.

 

[Swoobs]

Well in fairness, Ronaldo did reach a World Cup semi final with the Portugal team of WC 2006.

Yup, it was a great achievement. Still I found it funny that people had to skit around the “is reaching a final a better achievement than not reaching the final” question. Like it is that hard to reply.
If you win a silver in the oylmpics, only a gold medal win trumps your achievement.

 

[Pickle85]

Is it that hard to answer the question? Is reaching but losing a final a greater achievement than not even reaching a final? Be objective, answer the question and you will see if its a bit of a reach or not

Yes, it's more impressive to reach a final than not to, but I still think it's an enormous reach to use losing in a final as proof of a player or team's greatness. Messi is great for a wide variety of reasons but I struggle to believe that losing in a world cup final is one of the chief ones...

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yup, it was a great achievement. Still I found it funny that people had to skit around the “is reaching a final a better achievement than not reaching the final” question. Like it is that hard to reply.
If you win a silver in the oylmpics, only a gold medal win trumps your achievement.

A question that I would ask Ronaldo fans: If Messi and Argentina win the World Cup in 2022 (a tough ask, admittedly), would they accept that he is better than Ronaldo?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

A question that I would ask Ronaldo fans: If Messi and Argentina win the World Cup in 2022 (a tough ask, admittedly), would they accept that he is better than Ronaldo?

Messi will have had a better career than Ronaldo if he wins the World Cup in 2022, certainly.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yes, it's more impressive to reach a final than not to, but I still think it's an enormous reach to use losing in a final as proof of a player or team's greatness. Messi is great for a wide variety of reasons but I struggle to believe that losing in a world cup final is one of the chief ones...

Well a lot of great players have lost in World Cup finals after being the best player at the tournament (Cruyff, Puskas, Baggio, Zizinho etc.) so it’s not that weird a statement.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Messi will have had a better career than Ronaldo if he wins the World Cup in 2022, certainly.

Thanks for answering. But would you accept that he is a better player?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think Messi is better than Ronaldo, but that doesn't mean a lot of the arguments made here in his favor aren't weak. Same with pro-Ronaldo arguments.

People tie themselves up into knots trying to convert "one has been a little better than the other one at something" into "one has been massively better than the other one at something" into "one has been shit at something."

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Thanks for answering. But would you accept that he is a better player?

I already think that Messi is the better player.

 

[RedRonaldo]

A question that I would ask Ronaldo fans: If Messi and Argentina win the World Cup in 2022 (a tough ask, admittedly), would they accept that he is better than Ronaldo?

Yes. Let's just say, I always think Messi is better player, but I personably prefer Ronaldo, and objectively believes he is slightly greater player than Messi.

If Messi wins WC with Argentina, he will have a greater career than Ronaldo, and he will probably be the GOAT above anyone, including Ronaldo of course.

Bur right now, in terms of GOAT standing, I would have Pele, Messi and Ronaldo in the same tier.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yes. Let's just say, I always think Messi is better player, but I personably prefer Ronaldo, and objectively believes he is slightly greater player than Messi.

If Messi wins WC with Argentina, he will have a greater career than Ronaldo, and he will probably be the GOAT above anyone, including Ronaldo of course.

Bur right now, in terms of GOAT standing, I would have Pele, Messi and Ronaldo in the same tier.

Fair answer, thanks for your response.

 

[NasirTimothy]

I already think that Messi is the better player.

Fair enough.

 

[Pickle85]

Well a lot of great players have lost in World Cup finals after being the best player at the tournament (Cruyff, Puskas, Baggio, Zizinho etc.) so it’s not that weird a statement.

Agreed but I'm saying that, given the multitude of other reasons to use to prove Messi as a great, I think using a world cup runners up medal is a bit of a weak one, particularly when Argentina weren't (from memory) as impressive as their squad suggests they should have been.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Agreed but I'm saying that, given the multitude of other reasons to use to prove Messi as a great, I think using a world cup runners up medal is a bit of a weak one, particularly when Argentina weren't (from memory) as impressive as their squad suggests they should have been.

I get what you mean

 

[Pickle85]

I get what you mean

And I totally agree with you that saying 'Messi was the best player in that world cup' is a much more impressive feat and a more sensible point to make.

 

[Gehrman]

For me both of them sealed their legacy a long time ago. Obviously it's impressive at their ages that they are still going strong, but if they suddenly became wank footballers now untill they retired at say 38 it wouldn't really matter much to me. I will always favour Messi because of his freakish ability on the ball and vision, but I can't fault anyone for favouring Ronaldo and I think(but don't know obviously) that he'll have greater longevity than Messi.

 

[Zehner]

Never touched this thread with a ten foot pole, never desired to do so - in the five plus years of its existence despite it being on the front page regularly. But now that Ronnie is a united player again, the vote is clear. I am excited for us in a way that I wouldn't be if Messi came to us, for example. I was bitter about what seemed like constant links back that never materialized. But he's finally here. He's our lad. And we have to go for him now; really, it's only the decent thing to do as a united fan.

I think this summarizes this thread pcerfectly.

 

[Pickle85]

For me both of them sealed their legacy a long time ago. Obviously it's impressive at their ages that they are still going strong, but if they suddenly became wank footballers now untill they retired at say 38 it wouldn't really matter much to me. I will always favour Messi because of his freakish ability on the ball and vision, but I can't fault anyone for favouring Ronaldo and I think(but don't know obviously) that he'll have greater longevity than Messi.

This is far too sensible a take for this thread.

 

[shamans]

[/QUOTE]

I understand the game. It’s not about being easier on the eye. It’s about the fact that dribbling past a lot of players is actually very difficult. As is providing pinpoint defence splitting passes. These are rare skills. Ronaldo has become exceptionally good at executing skills that are not so rare.

Right so that's why Ronaldo is the only one leading charts? The skills are not rare?

 

[NasirTimothy]

Right so that's why Ronaldo is the only one leading charts? The skills are not rare?
[/QUOTE]

Leading charts?

 

[He'sRaldo]

I understand the game. It’s not about being easier on the eye. It’s about the fact that dribbling past a lot of players is actually very difficult. As is providing pinpoint defence splitting passes. These are rare skills. Ronaldo has become exceptionally good at executing skills that are not so rare.

You're wrong here. On every level, you'll see a player who can dribble past players easily but then do nothing with the ball.

End product has always been the most difficult part of football. The whole point of it really. And both players have used their respective skillsets to master that part of the game to a tee. In that respect, there's very little between them.