Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Ferguson is a great due to the time he managed in my eyes.

Managers having short periods where they are fired and have to find new clubs is nothing like a player wanting to go test or win him self league to leagues so people end up wondering if he is the GOAT :lol:

Damn.

Ps that coke removal and drink water is why Ronaldo is my goat - his mentality as a professional football player is untouchable and is the reason he went from league to league after achieving in each one.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Do we really need to think that far? Both literally played in the same league so we can use the same metrics. Surely if Ronaldo is the superior player then he would have outshone Messi during his time at La liga and vice versa
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I was just giving a reason that the journeyman career never made much sense for Messi everything considered.
 
Dancfc said:
Using those very same metrics Pep, Jose and possibly even Ancelotti would be considered greater than Ferguson.

The greatest is the greatest whether they played/managed in 1 league, 2 league's or 40.

And Messi failing in the PL is so unlikely it's not even worth the discussion, he's torn apart the best this country has to offer on multiple occasions averaging in or around a goal a game against them, the idea he would have got found out at the Stadium of Light and Turf Moor is fantasy land stuff at best.
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I get what you are saying – but Messi has bene in perhaps the perfect system for him – one he literally grew up playing in, and also perhaps the best ever club side (of which he was clearly a huge factor, even though that was also Spain's golden era).

So there is value in comparing a player who has stayed at one club (esp Barca), to someone who has delivered the same extraordinary results in three different leagues. Yes, the teams Ronaldo has played are geared up to make the most of him, but that is different to having been through the entire Barca ranks and Messi's status at the club now.

With regard to managers, many people have said that what SAF achieved at Aberdeen was almost more impressive that what he did here.
 
Gehrman said:
I could just never see a right time for Messi to move. He was already at his dream club since he was 14. If he transfered to the PL while Ronaldo was at Madrid, he'd be accused of running away from the Ronaldo rivalry. And then what would have been the step up from Barcelona? Man Utd after Fergie? City? Chelsea? Anyway if he should have done it probably should have been after Ronaldo left, but then he won the Ballon D'or in the following season. Perhaps he should have left after that season, but then I can't really see much else than plastic options + him being past his prime.
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Yeah, all that is generally true. It's been a mutually beneficial arrangement that no other offer could rival.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Its not a typo, he really has.

Fergie: 49 trophies
Pep: 31 trophies
Mourinho: 13 trophies
Ancelotti: 8 trophies
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Well Pep, Mou and Ancelotti has won 52 trophies combined, so it is wrong. But also surely the prestige of trophies count. A league cup is nothing compared to a CL.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Do we really need to think that far? Both literally played in the same league so we can use the same metrics. Surely if Ronaldo is the superior player then he would have outshone Messi during his time at La liga and vice versa
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It is different joining a (literally) foreign team, to having been a part of that setup for years.

So a very different comparison. Unfortunately, Messi has only ever played at one club so we can only speculate how how he would adapt. Ronaldo has proven he can and has.
 
Gehrman said:
Well Pep, Mou and Ancelotti has won 52 trophies combined, so it is wrong. But also surely the prestige of trophies count. A league cup is nothing compared to a CL.
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Huh :confused:
Did you actually read what I've wrote, or are you just clutching for straws? I literally wrote this:

RedRonaldo said:
Fergie had won similar amount of trophies of Pep, Jose, Ancelotti combined.
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Is 52 vs 49 not similar amount to you, or is it such a big difference for your to respond this way?

I mean, to be fair, Fergie has 39 years in management, Pepe has 14, Mourinho has 21, Ancelotti has 26. Its 39 years vs 61 years of management combined, not even a fair ground to being with.
 
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Gehrman said:
Well Pep, Mou and Ancelotti has won 52 trophies combined, so it is wrong. But also surely the prestige of trophies count. A league cup is nothing compared to a CL.
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Also the teams that won them. Winning a Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen is at least the equal of any Champions League victory
 
RedRonaldo said:
Huh :confused:
Did you actually read what I've wrote, or are you just clutching for straws? I literally wrote this:



Is 52 vs 49 not similar amount to you, or is it such a big difference for your to respond this way?
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Well I was just being mathematically correct.

Ekkie Thump said:
Also the teams that won them. Winning a Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen is at least the equal of any Champions League victory
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I don't disagree with that at all.
 
Gehrman said:
I think Ronaldo's mentality is obviously hugely admirable, but I find his "me me me" and look at my six-pack gesturing a bit cringe and off-putting. But it's true that Messi seems kind of bereft of a memorable personality.
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Given the little snippets we’ve heard from other players about Messi controlling things behind the scenes at Barca, plus some of his reactions on the pitch, Messi strikes me as that kid that is actually quite naughty but gets away with it because there are naughtier kids So he gets a good reputation somehow.

Working in a school at the minute there are a few of them and if you focus on them for a bit you realise they’re quite self centred.

Ronaldo is the pantomime villain that takes all the heat whilst Messi gets away with it.
 
Aah yes the common debate of Fergie V all the other managers that is so very relevant to Ronaldo v Messi. :lol:
 
swooshboy said:
I personally believe Ronaldo is the greatest player of all time – but happy to acknowledge people have different opinions.

Despite their overall stats being so similar and at the same time completely unprecedented – which demonstrates the exceptional levels both of these have reached – I will always argue that the fact Ronaldo has achieved all he has across three different leagues as being hugely significant. People can speculate how Messi would fare in the Premier League, but it is just speculation.
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Their stats are not actually unprecedented though
 
I question how many Ronaldo fans actually watch Messi when you still have people saying the system was perfect for him and he had Xavi or Iniesta. The season Messi won the Ballon Dor over Van Dijk, Barcelona were shit and Messi single handedly carried them through out that season. Go ask Barca fans. The tactic was basically "just pass to Messi". . That was the season Messi said he would try to bring the champions league back to camp nou. I'd argue that's his best ever season because he was not just a goalscorer but his playmaking was on god tier, his free kicks were like penalties. Anyways at this point I'm sure everyone has made up their minds on who is better so it's a complete waste of time if you're trying to convince anyone. The only people that go far in this debate are people that actually like arguing about it
 
matherto said:
Given the little snippets we’ve heard from other players about Messi controlling things behind the scenes at Barca, plus some of his reactions on the pitch, Messi strikes me as that kid that is actually quite naughty but gets away with it because there are naughtier kids So he gets a good reputation somehow.

Working in a school at the minute there are a few of them and if you focus on them for a bit you realise they’re quite self centred.

Ronaldo is the pantomime villain that takes all the heat whilst Messi gets away with it.
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There is a Spanish comedy show (which I don’t know the name of) that used to have skits featuring Messi as a Brando-like Godfather figure at Barcelona. This was about 10 years ago when there was rumoured beef between him and Villa
 
@Gehrman

What do you think about him staying now at Barcelona?

Barcelona look completely done under Koeman and Messi is non surprisingly is looking like he will stay at Barcelona to end his career there.

Perfect time to for him to move and at least have a double seasons like Ronaldo did at Juventus whilst being younger than him - would be great to see. Looking like he bypasses the challenge one last time and decides to be loyal to a bit of a Sinking ship. Loyal hero to some maybe but to me he should just move and give it a go.
 
Bebestation said:
Has anyone ever changed their mind on who is great?

Has a Messi fan ever changed their mind to think Ronaldo is better or has a Ronaldo fan thought that Messi is better?
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Yes, I was in the Ronaldo camp for years, up until about 5 years ago, because I rarely watched Messi before that point and watched a lot of Ronaldo after he left United due to what he did at United.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Thats not there same thing though, Fergie had won similar amount of trophies of Pep, Jose, Ancelotti combined. you need to look at the whole thing, not just one metric. At least that's what I usually do. Saying that I view both of them more or less equal in GOAT standing.
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I mean that’s not true now, is it?
 
Gehrman said:
Well Pep, Mou and Ancelotti has won 52 trophies combined, so it is wrong. But also surely the prestige of trophies count. A league cup is nothing compared to a CL.
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Do you know what similar means?
 
Gehrman said:
Well Pep, Mou and Ancelotti has won 52 trophies combined, so it is wrong. But also surely the prestige of trophies count. A league cup is nothing compared to a CL.
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Haha, you’ve let him con you. Fergie only has 49 trophies if you count every single charity shield, super cup, CWC etc. If you do that for the other 3, it comes to a lot more than 52 trophies combined. Jose has 25, Guardiola has 33 and Carlo has 20. That’s 78 trophies. Plus all three have a lot of years left in management yet if they retire at the age SAF did.
 
Bebestation said:
Has anyone ever changed their mind on who is great?

Has a Messi fan ever changed their mind to think Ronaldo is better or has a Ronaldo fan thought that Messi is better?
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Me.

I was always Ronaldo but I'd have to give it to Messi based on natural ability now. I just prefer the Ronaldo story because he's been so ridiculously professional and driven.

Part of the reason I think many choose Ronaldo is that they don't watch the South American internationals but we see plenty of Ronaldo on the international stage.

The thing with Messi is that it's always a case of what could he have done abroad, people just want to see him do it elsewhere. Youve got to be mad to think he couldn't though.
 
Bebestation said:
@Gehrman

What do you think about him staying now at Barcelona?

Barcelona look completely done under Koeman and Messi is non surprisingly is looking like he will stay at Barcelona to end his career there.

Perfect time to for him to move and at least have a double seasons like Ronaldo did at Juventus whilst being younger than him - would be great to see. Looking like he bypasses the challenge one last time and decides to be loyal to a bit of a Sinking ship. Loyal hero to some maybe but to me he should just move and give it a go.
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Considering he's well past his prime and turning 34 in a few days, I'm not sure a lot of clubs there is willing and can pay his wages + signing on fee. Any club that gets him now is getting the old on the decline version. The appeal is less. Overall the excitement factor would be greater if he was in his prime. I can't think of a lot of clubs who can afford him and fit him in bar City perhaps. Of course he could go to any club I think and do a good job, but I think he'd want move to a club where he can excell and compete for the highest honours.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Haha, you’ve let him con you. Fergie only has 49 trophies if you count every single charity shield, super cup, CWC etc. If you do that for the other 3, it comes to a lot more than 52 trophies combined. Jose has 25, Guardiola has 33 and Carlo has 20. That’s 78 trophies. Plus all three have a lot of years left in management yet if they retire at the age SAF did.
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I thought so.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Except its not. 90% of the teams that play in the WC also play in the Euros whereas elite teams play in the CL and the rest in EL.

So no, the comparison doesn't really fit.
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Pretty much this.

I may be wrong because I didn't check but didn't European NT's won 5 out of the last 6 WC editions?

Don't get the logic of comparing EL with Euro since EL is pretty much a competition for mid tier teams while the Euro has 90% of the elite NTs
 
Gonçalo Motta said:
Pretty much this.

I may be wrong because I didn't check but didn't European NT's won 5 out of the last 6 WC editions?

Don't get the logic of comparing EL with Euro since EL is pretty much a competition for mid tier teams while the Euro has 90% of the elite NTs
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Yeah it's basically only Brazil and Argentina who compete with the top European NT's right? Am I missing others?
 
VorZakone said:
Yeah it's basically only Brazil and Argentina who compete with the top European NT's right? Am I missing others?
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Uruguay has two WCs and 15 Copas but primarily in the early days.
 
I would describe Messi as a braised fillet of duck with a red wine reduction and microsalad

Whereas I would describe Ronaldo as a light fried piece of fois gras served upon a bed of finogrezchi mushrooms.
 
Bebestation said:
Ferguson is a great due to the time he managed in my eyes.

Managers having short periods where they are fired and have to find new clubs is nothing like a player wanting to go test or win him self league to leagues so people end up wondering if he is the GOAT :lol:

Damn.

Ps that coke removal and drink water is why Ronaldo is my goat - his mentality as a professional football player is untouchable and is the reason he went from league to league after achieving in each one.
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horsechoker said:
I would describe Messi as a braised fillet of duck with a red wine reduction and microsalad

Whereas I would describe Ronaldo as a light fried piece of fois gras served upon a bed of finogrezchi mushrooms.
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Well, here I am with my beer can and take away pizza and feeling called out. Cheers for that!
 
Bebestation said:
Has a Messi fan ever changed their mind to think Ronaldo is better or has a Ronaldo fan thought that Messi is better?
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but isn't that a silly question because of the age difference? majority of members here rate Messi as a better player and vast majority of them are obviously United fans, but they simply had to be in Ronaldo camp first during the 2006-08 period for obvious reasons. Messi was still quite young then and I bet quite few of us still viewed Kaka as a better player than him in those days, let alone Ronaldo.
 
bsCallout said:
Part of the reason I think many choose Ronaldo is that they don't watch the South American internationals but we see plenty of Ronaldo on the international stage.
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That's very much it, like Messi was very good in the first two games of the Copa America but the average person didn't watch either game. He could be man of the match in every single game and then lose a final on penalties and be turned into a meme by people that didn't watch a minute of action.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
That's very much it, like Messi was very good in the first two games of the Copa America but the average person didn't watch either game. He could be man of the match in every single game and then lose a final on penalties and be turned into a meme by people that didn't watch a minute of action.
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This. Always the same story isn't it. When asked how many games of Messi they see compared to Ronaldo it's "I've seen enough, trust me."

Well no if they actually watched Messi they wouldn't even compare the two because it's obvious he's so much better.
 
The most telling thing for me is that Messi is compared to Pele and Maradona.

That’s never been the case with Ronaldo, he’s only ever been compared to Messi.
 
For me the reality is that Messi and Ronaldo are roughly around the same level but I prefer Messi's style. I loved the younger version of Ronaldo the one that won his first Ballon d'Or and don't really like the older version, I still highly rate him though.
 
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