Yeh what a joke of a league, they actually nominated someone who only scored 8 goals in 16 games over the season. I think all Neymar need to do is to just stay in France to get nominated.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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I hope Yilmaz of Lille wins it, he's been amazing, not so much in terms of stats but the importance of his goals. One of his goals is also up for the goal of the season
Gladly football is so simple. Neymar > Mbappe > Zlatan and the margins inbetween are not particularly small, IMO.
Yeh Neymar could have nothing to show whole season and it’s still Neymar > Mbappe > Zlatan to you. But point being made, buying Neymar was a very poor return of investment for PSG, and spending last 4 years in PSG was a waste of time and career for Neymar.
Neymar is much more than just about goals. It’s clear to anyone who watches him that the majority of PSG’s creativity rests on his shoulders.
What are his assist numbers like? I’d hazard a guess that he has a lot more of them than Mbappe and Zlatan.
If it was why did PSG extend with him? They're looking for the attention he brings to the club. From a sporting perspective, yes, the transfer was a waste of money.
And it's irrelevant what career path a player chooses or if you think they make sense or not, his performances count. And in terms of performances, Neymar is better than both Zlatan and Mbappe, even if it doesn't show in your stat sheets.
His performance is overrated. I’ve watched him over 2 legs against City, he has done feck all and was totally shocking.
Yeh occasionally he is capable of doing something amazing, but he didn’t do it as consistent to justify his price tags. 8 goals and 4 assists this season in French league is rather below average. But sure if you enjoy watching dribbling and diving, and some fancy ball play, he is fun to watch, but that’s about it.
But I’d argue Martial has done some amazing things for us at times too, but his consistency level and output has been shockingly bad. I wonder since you don’t give any consideration to players consistency level and output, do you also rate Martial higher than others?
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In past 3 years, he has made 23 assist, so in average around 7-8 assist per season.
But don’t forget, PSG average score around 90-100 per season. In terms of output (goals+assist) Neymar didn’t really contribute that much to the team. (Let’s say around 20 goals, 8 assist per year, for a team which scored 90-100 goals in total)
xGC per 90 in 2021:
Neymar: 1.37
Mbappe: 1.15
Cristiano: 0.93
Messi: 1.13
"Dribbling and diving". But hey, you watched him for two games when his team was being outplayed, you're clearly an expert on the topic. No need to comprehend football beyond stat sheets. You're like the guy in the Matrix who can read what happened on the pitch by scanning the lines of goal stats.
Did you even watch his games against City? PSG started well in first half both legs, but City was better in 2nd half. Neymar performances has been ,well let’s say probably the most immature display I’ve seen for a long while, kept taking on players by himself and end up losing the ball, while refusing to pass to his teammates. But yet his team getting outplayed so it’s not his fault then, how convenient to say. Well sure it may helps him getting higher xGC stats for himself if he keeps doing that every game, if that’s really matters. And if that’s what you called performance, then well I’d say performance like those are overrated.
Ronaldo is clear. Always has been.
Eibarman is a flat track bully, can't score in big games despite having the best attacking teammates out of any La Liga team
Eibarman is a flat track bully, can't score in big games despite having the best attacking teammates out of any La Liga team
You don't understand xGC I see. No, it doesn't help, not at all. He probably had a very bad xGC in the second game.
And yes, I've seen the games. He didn't start the first game well, he started excellently and PSG should've had three goals going into the break. He was average to bad after that but still far from the worst player at PSG.
But you believing that is his usual level shows that you don't watch him regularly. It is especially funny when you are defending Cristiano because of his bad team but don't see that PSG was outplayed against City and that always sheds a very bad light on attacking players. This has happened to Messi and Cristiano numerous times, too.
Well why should I care about new matrix like XGC per 90 mins? It’s just a stat, to do with possession and goals scored in related to possession, so what? It only proves he get involved a lot in attacking play which lead to goals or something. But, does it really matter? PSG is high scoring team anyway, in farmers league, with goals flowing everywhere. Given the context and his style of play, I just don’t value this as high as you do.
Neymar performance had been bad not only because PSG was outplayed in 2nd half, but he had been very immature in his decision making. Well normally this can be excused if he was only 18 or 22, but he is already 29 for feck sake, hence I could never rate him as highly with this type of selfish and suicidal display.
For Ronaldo case, in general he still have the impact and outputs even his teams are bad and he is already at 36. Same goes for Messi, especially when his performances has always been in top notch. For Neymar case, its suppose to be his prime years (at 27-29), and it’s been shockingly bad for him over past 3 season in terms of overall output. You may defend him otherwise, but it just doesn’t cut it for me. Players like him, should meet his min expectation on output in farmers league, despite how well he could perform at times.
nice post red Ronaldo
I'm just saying that Messi and Barcelona drew to Levante
That is just a next level low.
I also love the - he has beaten all the English clubs in the CL things like the English clubs have never beaten Messi, nearly ever season Meh-ssi gets knocked out by an English club these days. The way people talk about Messi is as if he was the sole reason Barcelona at their peak was a bit untouchable to some clubs. It was a combination of Xavi, iniesta, Busquets and Messi to keep it simple; not just Messi.
wtf are you on about
Messi has been knocked out by an English club just twice in the last ten years. Ronaldo has been knocked out by clubs from far inferior leagues back to back seasons now
Then why does nobody else come close to his xGC? Not even players who play for high scoring teams and see much more of the ball than Neymar? Gündogan for example is at 0.87 xGC. Kimmich is at 0.78. The answer is simple: No player is involved in creating as many chances as Neymar is. Moreover I find it quite funny that you're criticising an advanced and very powerful metric like xGC while you're spamming your superficial goal and assist sheets left right and center.
And no, he didn't play well against City and his decision making wasn't the best, even though you're exaggerating tremendously. Still, it didn't bother you when Ronaldo didn't do anything at all in such games. Oh and by the way, Neymar was many things in the last three years but definitely not shockingly bad. The fact that you believe this is.. well.. shockingly bad.
IMO, you are either enormously biased or lack basic comprehension of how football works and how to identify important plays in the build up of attacks.
I'm just saying that Messi and Barcelona drew to Levante
That is just a next level low.
I also love the - he has beaten all the English clubs in the CL things like the English clubs have never beaten Messi, nearly ever season Meh-ssi gets knocked out by an English club these days. The way people talk about Messi is as if he was the sole reason Barcelona at their peak was a bit untouchable to some clubs. It was a combination of Xavi, iniesta, Busquets and Messi to keep it simple; not just Messi.
Aren't you busy convincing children to not take the medication they were prescribed?
With all things considered, there’s a thing called expectation. Sure if only judge Neymar with your normal standard, he has been doing fine job, you know, decent output and great involvement in his team attacking play. But given the context, when playing for dominating side like PSG, with over 70% possession in most games against weaker teams in French league, while having the freedom to do whatever he wants, in a team which always scored 80-100 goals in the league, I’d be less impress with it.
Adding that to amount PSG is paying him to do his job, and the fact that he is doing this during his peak years (those years Ronaldo/Messi would have scored 50-60 goals with 15-20 assists in top league, with avg rating of 8 or more) Then yes, it’s underwhelming. Sure if you don’t care about all that (expectation, peak years, dominant side, farmers league, lack of direct output) then you may have a point to defend him there with the xGC metric.
Since that is essentially what Cristiano and Messi have been doing throughout their respective times in Spain, I think you're a bit too impressed by their stats then.
By the way, if you say his career has been underwhelming given the expectations people had during his time at Barca, sure, I agree. He's still the best or second best footballer in the world at this moment in time. I believe he wasted his career at Paris, too, but also see that I'm a bit of an hypocrite for it since much of this criticism can be applied to Messi, Cristiano, Robben, Ribery or pretty much any footballer who played for a top club as well. I also notice that it's a bit unfair to be pissed because people in here calling the Bundesliga a farmer's league but to say the same about the French league anyway. That's still a professional league of high quality and I doubt there's much difference between the lower table teams, they only have less competition at the very top. Neymar gets to play maybe 80% of his games against cannon fodder, Lewandowski maybe 75% and Messi and Ronaldo probably around 70%. Is that really that much of a deal breaker?
He is in a way still carrying them. He’s scored almost 50% of their goals this season and has scored 87% of his total goals there when the score was 0-0 or 2-1. You can argue Juve could even be mid table without him and not just fighting for top 4. Look at the game before last against Udinese for example.
Cards on the table I think messi is the best
But was a bit surprised when somebody just pointed out to me that next season Ronaldo will probably get the record for the most games ever by an outfield player
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_with_the_most_official_appearances
Carlos 1138
Xavi 1136
Zanetti 1114
Ronaldo 1100
and if you subtract age related internationals (eg U21) and olympic games its
Carlos 1110
Zanetti 1102
Xavi 1078
Ronaldo 1066
Then factor in hes playing up front and none of his games have come in the indian or saudi leagues
that really is impressive ... and injury permitting he might well go on for more than one season... but if he stays fit then seems pretty much guaranteed he is top of that list ... genuiney impressive i think
But was a bit surprised when somebody just pointed out to me that next season Ronaldo will probably get the record for the most games ever by an outfield player
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_with_the_most_official_appearances
Carlos 1138
Xavi 1136
Zanetti 1114
Ronaldo 1100
and if you subtract age related internationals (eg U21) and olympic games its
Carlos 1110
Zanetti 1102
Xavi 1078
Ronaldo 1066
Then factor in hes playing up front and none of his games have come in the indian or saudi leagues
that really is impressive ... and injury permitting he might well go on for more than one season... but if he stays fit then seems pretty much guaranteed he is top of that list ... genuiney impressive i think
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I'm just saying that Messi and Barcelona drew to Levante
That is just a next level low.
I also love the - he has beaten all the English clubs in the CL things like the English clubs have never beaten Messi, nearly ever season Meh-ssi gets knocked out by an English club these days. The way people talk about Messi is as if he was the sole reason Barcelona at their peak was a bit untouchable to some clubs. It was a combination of Xavi, iniesta, Busquets and Messi to keep it simple; not just Messi.
Yes, last time that happened do you remember the first leg of the tie and a standout performance from a certain player?
Doesn't matter if Barcelona get put out by English clubs now. The point is Messi still performs to elite levels against them so the claim he wouldn't be able to cut it playing in England is genuinely so embarrassing.
Of course it wasn't just Messi but I'd argue the guy that scored 90+ goals in a calendar year was by far and away the most vital piece of the puzzle. Wouldn't you?
literally just two English clubs in the last 13 years have knocked Messi out and he says it happens often
Mcsauce joins the discussion
Did you just compare fecking Martial to Neymar? Really... you auto lose this thread regardless of what came before for that. Neymar has been very good at PSG when he's been available.
You miss the whole point. He has been poor investment for PSG over past 3 seasons. For whatever reasons they are expecting the service of a top 3 player player in the world in his prime, his overall impact did not justify that.
And that's only because of Messi? Barcelona's board fecked his own Club and his best ever player. Everyone knows that.
Last season they could've done much more if they didn't fired Valverde mid-season for the Setien. That's just one of many examples. In the end, it's a team sport. Look at CR7. All that myth about him being the saviour of Real Madrid fell apart without Modric, Kross and Casemiro.
Last season they could've done much more if they didn't fired Valverde mid-season for the Setien. That's just one of many examples. In the end, it's a team sport. Look at CR7. All that myth about him being the saviour of Real Madrid fell apart without Modric, Kross and Casemiro.
Weird statement when he was obviously one or the main core reason behind their success and in many cases he was indeed their "saviour". That doesn't mean that RM players didn't step up when needed as well.
It would be the same than me saying that Messi's impact was overrated because he can't win a CL without Neymar, Xavi and Iniesta.
Going to a "weaker" team when he is older and past his prime and not winning the CL, doesn't exactly change that or prove your point at all. I don't even rate his club achievements in Juve because they would be the favourites to win the league with or without him.
1 player can change the outcome of the game, and both he and Messi did it more times than anybody else for more than a decade but it's still a team game and you still need your team to step up to win the major titles.
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Is this even a debate anymore?
Never was. Ronaldo is great at football. Messi is the football.
Cristiano Ronaldo = GOAT!!
In favor of Messi? No?
Imagine actually thinking Messi is better.
Today's performance has confirmed what I have always believed. Messi is the greatest. Ronaldo was very pedestrian against a very poor Hungary team. It's sad to see him this way.
Unbelieveable 2nd goal, got involved with most good things Portugal done. Should have had a goal in the first half when he blazed over, cant wait til he signs for us again.
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Both are GOATs at club level, but Ronaldo shits on Messi at International level. Pretty much by any metric.
You people are restless
Let's enjoy their last Euro/Copa, to be fair they both played well and scored goals in their first game.
Let's enjoy their last Euro/Copa, to be fair they both played well and scored goals in their first game.
Ronaldos longevity is incredible. It's still Messi though because nobody touches peak Messi.
Ronaldo won't be at Qatar? When can he get 200 caps?You people are restless
Let's enjoy their last Euro/Copa, to be fair they both played well and scored goals in their first game.
World Cup
Ronaldo - 7 goals(2 pens) and 2 assists in 17 games.
Messi - 6 goals(0 pens) and 8 assists in 19 games.
Euros/Copa
Ronaldo - 11 goals(1 pen) and 8 assists in 22 games.
Messi - 10 goals(2 pens) and 13 assists in 28 games.
So people are basing Ronaldo 'shitting' on Messi Internationally because he has this record against a garbage level of opponent like below?
5 x Latvia
4 x Estonia
6 x Luxemborg
2 x Saudi Arabia
2 x Azerbaijan
2 x Kazakhstan
5 x Aremina
1 x North Korea
2 x Cyprus
3 x N.I
6 x Andorra
4 x Faroe Islands
1 x New Zealand
7 x Lithuania
1 x Israel
Over 50 goals against that lot, come on.
A few more in there against pretty average sides like Finland, Bosnia, Hungary etc.
And before I see the usual replies about who Messi has scored against, I'm not suggesting he has not upped his count against some gash, he has but it doesn't even hit the 20 goals mark because he doesn't play regularly against absolute hopeless European sides like above.
If you think Ronaldo has had a better International career, fair enough, but to claim it's so far apart is utterlly laughable. It's close.
Ronaldo - 7 goals(2 pens) and 2 assists in 17 games.
Messi - 6 goals(0 pens) and 8 assists in 19 games.
Euros/Copa
Ronaldo - 11 goals(1 pen) and 8 assists in 22 games.
Messi - 10 goals(2 pens) and 13 assists in 28 games.
So people are basing Ronaldo 'shitting' on Messi Internationally because he has this record against a garbage level of opponent like below?
5 x Latvia
4 x Estonia
6 x Luxemborg
2 x Saudi Arabia
2 x Azerbaijan
2 x Kazakhstan
5 x Aremina
1 x North Korea
2 x Cyprus
3 x N.I
6 x Andorra
4 x Faroe Islands
1 x New Zealand
7 x Lithuania
1 x Israel
Over 50 goals against that lot, come on.
A few more in there against pretty average sides like Finland, Bosnia, Hungary etc.
And before I see the usual replies about who Messi has scored against, I'm not suggesting he has not upped his count against some gash, he has but it doesn't even hit the 20 goals mark because he doesn't play regularly against absolute hopeless European sides like above.
If you think Ronaldo has had a better International career, fair enough, but to claim it's so far apart is utterlly laughable. It's close.
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