Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[SportingCP96]

Isn't Ronaldo a striker/forward for you.

Back to 2014 .. Portugal went out in the group stages and Argentina got to the final. If Higuan had finished that chance in the 2014 final maybe this debate would now be over.

Portugal ....

Eduardo goalkeeper, Braga

2 Bruno Alves defender, Fenerbahçe

3 Pepe defender, Real Madrid

4 Miguel Veloso midfielder, Dynamo Kyiv

5 Fábio Coentrão defender, Real Madrid

6 William Carvalho midfielder, Sporting

7 Cristiano Ronaldo (captain) forward, Real Madrid

8 João Moutinho midfielder, Monaco

9 Hugo Almeida forward, Besiktas

10 Vieirinha midfielder, Wolfsburg

11 Éder forward, Braga

12 Rui Patrício goalkeeper, Sporting

13 Ricardo Costa defender, Valencia

14 Luís Neto defender, Zenit Saint Petersburg

15 Rafa Silva midfielder, Braga

16 Raul Meireles midfielder, Fenerbahce

17 Nani midfielder, Manchester United

18 Silvestre Varela midfielder, Porto

19 André Almeida defender, Benfica

20 Rúben Amorim midfielder, Benfica

21 João Pereira defender, Valencia

22 Beto goalkeeper, Sevilla

23 Hélder Postiga forward, Lazio

Argentina .
1 Sergio Romero goalkeeper, Monaco

2 Ezequiel Garay defender, Benfica

3 Hugo Campagnaro defender, Internazionale

4 Pablo Zabaleta defender, Manchester City

5 Fernando Gago midfielder, Boca Juniors

6 Lucas Biglia midfielder, Lazio

7 Ángel di María midfielder, Real Madrid

8 Enzo Pérez midfielder, Benfica

9 Gonzalo Higuaín forward, Napoli

10 Lionel Messi (captain) forward, Barcelona

11 Maxi Rodríguez midfielder, Newell’s Old Boys

12 Agustín Orión goalkeeper, Boca Juniors

13 Augusto Fernández midfielder, Celta Vigo

14 Javier Mascherano midfielder, Barcelona

15 Martín Demichelis defender, Manchester City

16 Marcos Rojo defender, Sporting

17 Federico Fernández defender, Napoli

18 Rodrigo Palacio forward, Internazionale

19 Ricardo Álvarez midfielder, Internazionale

20 Sergio Agüero forward, Manchester City

21 Mariano Andújar goalkeeper, Catania

22 Ezequiel Lavezzi forward, Paris Saint-Germain

23 José María Basanta defender, Monterrey


Portugal now are blessed with an abundance of talent in midfield/defence to help get Ronaldo to the areas of the pitch where he can the most damage - players from Wolves who did wonderful things this year. A potential best player of the world in Bernardo. Their talent is well sought after - Fernandez, Neves, Moutinho, Felix and they have great experience in ex RM Pepe.

Yes I agree NOW we have in my opinion great talent around us but the unfortunate thing for Ronaldo is it is in the end of his career.

Look at the teams you just pointed out that was shocking.

Lastly it’s funny how you said “if Messi won the WC This debate would be over” yet Ronaldo won the Euro and it means nothing.

The idea of Portugal winning a World Cup with those teams is unrealistic.

 

[2mufc0]

There’s always excuses for Messi while everything Ronaldo does he never deserved.

Messi fans can’t even be objective.

Just stick to the standard response ‘it was all Higuain’s fault’.

 

[K13]

They wouldn't be in the WC if Higuin hadn't helped them qualify. No one mentions that but everyone talks of it as some sort of Messi vs the world (not to mention Di Maria was also red hot back then)

But that is kind of my point. If you listen to the hype/read the headlines/put too much stock in the marketing/pr then you get a very distorted view of what is actually going on.

I watch games - alot of them. I base my opinion on that and only that and that is why Messi is my pick.

Yes I agree NOW we have in my opinion great talent around us but the unfortunate thing for Ronaldo is it is in the end of his career.

Look at the teams you just pointed out that was shocking.

Lastly it’s funny how you said “if Messi won the WC This debate would be over” yet Ronaldo won the Euro and it means nothing.

The idea of Portugal winning a World Cup with those teams is unrealistic.

I think both teams in 2014 were lacking. They were not very well balanced.

Argentina relied too much on Mascherano as they did not have another ball winner and it was the best tournament I had seen Di Maria play so they at least had a midfielder who could pass. That all helped Messi just to concentrate on what he does best so he did not have to go quite so deep to pick up the ball. It was not enough to win it and in the final Mascherano was completely knackered. There was no one to replace him.

Portugal had a nightmare of a tournament they did not get out of the group stages and no one should blame Ronaldo for that. Just like no one should claim he won the Euros on his own.

 

[K13]

Yes I agree NOW we have in my opinion great talent around us but the unfortunate thing for Ronaldo is it is in the end of his career.

You have got a really, really good bunch of players there to make an outstanding team. Next Europeans / World Cup will be very interesting.

 

[SportingCP96]

But that is kind of my point. If you listen to the hype/read the headlines/put too much stock in the marketing/pr then you get a very distorted view of what is actually going on.

I watch games - alot of them. I base my opinion on that and only that and that is why Messi is my pick.



I think both teams in 2014 were lacking. They were not very well balanced.

Argentina relied too much on Mascherano as they did not have another ball winner and it was the best tournament I had seen Di Maria play so they at least had a midfielder who could pass. That all helped Messi just to concentrate on what he does best so he did not have to go quite so deep to pick up the ball. It was not enough to win it and in the final Mascherano was completely knackered. There was no one to replace him.

Portugal had a nightmare of a tournament they did not get out of the group stages and no one should blame Ronaldo for that. Just like no one should claim he won the Euros on his own.

No one can fully win something on there own in football because it is not basketball but you can have a serious or major impact. And without Ronaldo they don’t get to the final that’s my point.

 

[SportingCP96]

You have got a really, really good bunch of players there to make an outstanding team. Next Europeans / World Cup will be very interesting.

I think so too but my only fear is we don’t have a player that can make AS BIG a difference as a Ronaldo. By that I mean a guy who can decide a Game on his own.

In saying that I really like Bernardo Silva but he is more of a Robin then he is a Batman if you know what I mean.

 

[K13]

No one can fully win something on there own in football because it is not basketball but you can have a serious or major impact. And without Ronaldo they don’t get to the final that’s my point.

I agree but you can also have a player who undoes all that good work leaving you with too much to do.

I think you can only really compare then when they are at the same tournament so that leaves the World Cup. I don't think either could have done any more. Both records are pretty impressive.

2006 Argentina - 6th Portugal - 4th
2010 Argentina - 5th Portugal -11th
2014 Argentina - 2nd Portugal -18th
2018 Argentina - 16th Portugal - 13th

Neither has scored in the knock out stages of the WC which suggests they are both very tightly marked as both are 2 of the best goal scorers ever.

 

[K13]

I think so too but my only fear is we don’t have a player that can make AS BIG a difference as a Ronaldo. By that I mean a guy who can decide a Game on his own.

In saying that I really like Bernardo Silva but he is more of a Robin then he is a Batman if you know what I mean.

I do but I think you may under estimate him. If Pep thinks he is the best player in the world right now then it is probably worth listening to. He made you tick in the Nations Cup did he not?

 

[SportingCP96]

I do but I think you may under estimate him. If Pep thinks he is the best player in the world right now then it is probably worth listening to. He made you tick in the Nations Cup did he not?

Oh absolutely. Was the first time he finally looked the part in the national team but I think we need a guy to put the chances away because Bernardo will be the one creating them.

He is a gem of a player though no doubt. He blew up this season to a whole other level.

 

[shamans]

But that is kind of my point. If you listen to the hype/read the headlines/put too much stock in the marketing/pr then you get a very distorted view of what is actually going on.

I watch games - alot of them. I base my opinion on that and only that and that is why Messi is my pick.

And the rest of us Ronaldo fans? We're not watching games?

 

[K13]

Oh absolutely. Was the first time he finally looked the part in the national team but I think we need a guy to put the chances away because Bernardo will be the one creating them.

He is a gem of a player though no doubt. He blew up this season to a whole other level.

Agreed and with no disrespect to the wonderfully talented Deco I think he may be a level up.

 

[shamans]

You just have to look at games in which they play to know who the superior football player is. I'd like to do just that rather than compare their trophy cabinets. One Copa America trophy wouldn't make Messi a better or worse footballer than he is. Purely on ability, there really is no debate to be had. Who had the better career or who made the most out of their career, I think that's up for debate yes.

Then can you stick to doing that? It's a constant shift of goal posts "Messi's trophies mean more" , "Erm no Ronaldo has won these trophies" , "okay yeah but just your eyes, Messi is better".

Which one is it? What do you use to quantify greatest ever footballer? Do you see a footballer as a man, a football and what he can do with it or the player in a team and how he can achieve a result?

The other thing that just proves how narrow minded some Messi fans is when they say "there is no debate to be had" when it comes to ability. Yes there is a debate, else what are we doing here? I think its 50/50 between the two but I value what Ronaldo brings to the table way more than Messi. I also value results (3peat, international trophy, different teams yet league titles) as more valuable.

Maybe you value something else but don't say it's not a debate, it just makes you sound like you're not willing to/or understand different aspects of the game.

The ability to win football games. That's how I rate the greatest football. Not how much better a player is at a weighted pass or a dribble.

The reason I accept the opinion of Messi being the greatest is due to what he's won not because of the fact he's probably the best dribbler I've ever seen. If he didn't have the goals and wins to back it up with, no one would care. Queresma btw has a better outside right foot shot than Messi. Just using an extreme example to show you can't just say "ability. That's it".

besides all of that he's been pathetic as of late strolling around in the champions league when his team needs goals...

 

[RedRonaldo]

Sorry you feel that way but I can't help the way I see things. I think social media is a powerful tool when I really want it to be just about the football. it is possibly a generational thing from my end as well. In all honesty I am not even sure I would vote for Ronaldo as the best ever Man Utd player. I would probably vote for Best. Real Madrid fans may see things differently but they would have watched him in the flesh so to speak and have a far better understanding of where he ranks in their history.

I mentioned Bestie only because you said Ronaldo was the first wide player to score so many goals. I think Best's 32 in 42 was pretty special considering he was an assist king as well. You can not easily compare stats over eras because too many different variables as the game has become more global there are different and new levels of ability being introduced that increases the number of games played but increases the chances to score more.

Out of interest as a Man Utd fan - is Ronaldo your pick of the best ever Man Utd player based on his time with us?

If you pick George Best over Ronaldo, that's fine for me. Everyone opinion is different.

But just to point out, others may not agree with you, including George Best himself, here's some interesting quote from other GOAT:

“Cristiano Ronaldo is better than George Best and Denis Law, who were two brilliant and great players in the history of United.” - Johan Cruyff

“There have been a few players described as the new George Best over the years, but this is the first time it's been a compliment to me.” - George Best

And as Man Utd player, my pick is of course heavily biased. I pick Cantona as the greatest player I've ever watch in Man Utd. The best player though (most talented one), in Man Utd, is Ronaldo. Note my definition of "greatest player" and "best player", can be different.

And by the way, what does social media has anything to do with winning 5 CL, winning 5 Ballon D'ors, scoring 689 goals, 219 assist, holding 150+ individual record, winning 29 trophies, and being the all time top scorer and top assists in CL? and all time top scorer for national team in Europe and South America?

 

[SportingCP96]

Agreed and with no disrespect to the wonderfully talented Deco I think he may be a level up.

Uuufff I am not ready to say that YET as you said Deco was so talented. BUT Bernardo has the potential to maybe go up a level on him.

 

[K13]

If you pick George Best over Ronaldo, that's fine for me. Everyone opinion is different.

But just to point out, others may not agree with you, including George Best himself, here's some interesting quote from other GOAT:

“Cristiano Ronaldo is better than George Best and Denis Law, who were two brilliant and great players in the history of United.” - Johan Cruyff

“There have been a few players described as the new George Best over the years, but this is the first time it's been a compliment to me.” - George Best

And as Man Utd player, my pick is of course heavily biased. I pick Cantona as the greatest player I've ever watch in Man Utd. The best player though (most talented one), in Man Utd, is Ronaldo.

You are right it is such a personal choice and maybe I will think differently when Ronaldo eventually retires. History tends to be kinder compared to when we are in the here and now. Best is the reason why I supported Man Utd in the first place. I saw him play and I was mesmerized. Just wanted him to get the ball so I could see him float across the turf again and drop his shoulder and whoosh he was gone. Just as one with the ball, so fluid.

When you say biased .. is that through Nationality? I really liked Cantona as well - some of the little flicks and lay offs he did were magical. He was the catalyst no doubt for our greatest period.

 

[K13]

Uuufff I am not ready to say that YET as you said Deco was so talented. BUT Bernardo has the potential to maybe go up a level on him.

Just out of interest have you seen him play much in the PL this season?

 

[keezw]

Sorry to intervine but I've got a serious question. How would Cristiano Ronaldo look playing next to Lionel Messi in the same team ? Who would be the best player in that team ?

 

[SportingCP96]

Just out of interest have you seen him play much in the PL this season?

I have I only really watch the Portuguese league and the EPL which is why I said he for sure has the Potential to pass Deco. One more season at this same level and he is there.

OR I could just be being way too nostalgic in allowing Bernardo to pass him which I can admit. Bernardo is one of the rare players that even though he Is from Benfica I cant help but like him. The type of player a coach loves.

Deco was just class though

 

[RobinLFC]

Then can you stick to doing that? It's a constant shift of goal posts "Messi's trophies mean more" , "Erm no Ronaldo has won these trophies" , "okay yeah but just your eyes, Messi is better".

Which one is it? What do you use to quantify greatest ever footballer? Do you see a footballer as a man, a football and what he can do with it or the player in a team and how he can achieve a result?

The other thing that just proves how narrow minded some Messi fans is when they say "there is no debate to be had" when it comes to ability. Yes there is a debate, else what are we doing here? I think its 50/50 between the two but I value what Ronaldo brings to the table way more than Messi. I also value results (3peat, international trophy, different teams yet league titles) as more valuable.

Maybe you value something else but don't say it's not a debate, it just makes you sound like you're not willing to/or understand different aspects of the game.

The ability to win football games. That's how I rate the greatest football. Not how much better a player is at a weighted pass or a dribble.

The reason I accept the opinion of Messi being the greatest is due to what he's won not because of the fact he's probably the best dribbler I've ever seen. If he didn't have the goals and wins to back it up with, no one would care. Queresma btw has a better outside right foot shot than Messi. Just using an extreme example to show you can't just say "ability. That's it".

besides all of that he's been pathetic as of late strolling around in the champions league when his team needs goals...

I haven't been shifting goal posts so I don't understand why you aimed that question at me. I'm not even a Messi fan either, I just think he's better than Ronaldo, that doesn't equal "Messi fan".

I genuinely think there's no debate to be had on footballing ability though, and I'll stick to that. It's like arguing against flat earthers, all the evidence is right there in front of them yet they fail to acknowledge it and come up with different explanations why X isn't X but is in fact Y despite all evidence pointing to X. That's how it feels to me if someone says Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi.

Without checking the stats, Messi is better than, or close to, Ronaldo in the one thing you can make a case for Ronaldo and that's goal scoring. That pretty much tells you all you need to know for me. It's like people arguing that James is a better basketball player than Jordan. Sure, you could make some arguments, but I'll just think you're clueless and that's how I feel about the Ronaldo/Messi debate as well.

As for the strolling around in CL games every Ronaldo fan brings up 18934 times - Ronaldo got knocked out against Ajax this season. Not against Liverpool while scoring two goals, but Ajax. At home. Does that suddenly make him a worse footballer than before? No.

 

[shamans]

I haven't been shifting goal posts so I don't understand why you aimed that question at me. I'm not even a Messi fan either, I just think he's better than Ronaldo, that doesn't equal "Messi fan".

I genuinely think there's no debate to be had on footballing ability though, and I'll stick to that. It's like arguing against flat earthers, all the evidence is right there in front of them yet they fail to acknowledge it and come up with different explanations why X isn't X but is in fact Y despite all evidence pointing to X. That's how it feels to me if someone says Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi.

Without checking the stats, Messi is better than, or close to, Ronaldo in the one thing you can make a case for Ronaldo and that's goal scoring. That pretty much tells you all you need to know for me. It's like people arguing that James is a better basketball player than Jordan. Sure, you could make some arguments, but I'll just think you're clueless and that's how I feel about the Ronaldo/Messi debate as well.

Well if you think that then I have to judge your understanding of football as narrow minded. You can't pick a certain mold of a footballer and then put it down as "no question".

 

[SportingCP96]

Sorry to intervine but I've got a serious question. How would Cristiano Ronaldo look playing next to Lionel Messi in the same team ? Who would be the best player in that team ?

That team would be orgasmic. I would pay a lot of money to be able to see both of them play a full season at there best with each other.
I would bet Ronaldo would score more goals then Messi thanks to having Messi assist him but Messi would also have so many assists.

They would compliment each other well and would nullify each others weaknesses. Ronaldo would be the "closer" in the big games/high pressure moments I think.

Ronaldo on penalties and Messi on free kicks.

Dam that would be fun.

 

[RobinLFC]

Well if you think that then I have to judge your understanding of football as narrow minded. You can't pick a certain mold of a footballer and then put it down as "no question".

Err, okay then? I don't care how you judge my understanding of football. In (almost) every major ability or category I value in footballers, Messi trumps Ronaldo. "The ability to win football games" is such an arbitrary way to decide something, as it could swing the other way every other game.

 

[K13]

I have I only really watch the Portuguese league and the EPL which is why I said he for sure has the Potential to pass Deco. One more season at this same level and he is there.

OR I could just be being way too nostalgic in allowing Bernardo to pass him which I can admit. Bernardo is one of the rare players that even though he Is from Benfica I cant help but like him. The type of player a coach loves.

Deco was just class though

Deco and class definately go together. Just wonderful to watch in his prime and such a delicate weight of pass. Several years since he retired but feels like yesterday.

Bernardo has been sensational this season. The only reason they did not miss Kevin De Bruyne was because he filled the void. Right forward, central midfield - he played it all. First name on the team sheet. Some wonderfully crafted goals as well. He runs .. lots - 13km in the crucial game v Liverpool which they needed to win to put their title back on track and which they duly did. I wish he was English.

So we may disagree on the greatest but at least we both agree Deco was class

 

[RedRonaldo]

You are right it is such a personal choice and maybe I will think differently when Ronaldo eventually retires. History tends to be kinder compared to when we are in the here and now. Best is the reason why I supported Man Utd in the first place. I saw him play and I was mesmerized. Just wanted him to get the ball so I could see him float across the turf again and drop his shoulder and whoosh he was gone. Just as one with the ball, so fluid.

When you say biased .. is that through Nationality? I really liked Cantona as well - some of the little flicks and lay offs he did were magical. He was the catalyst no doubt for our greatest period.

Biased has much broader sense than nationality. I am not a Portuguese nor an Argentinian, if I chose Ronaldo over Messi, does that means I am not biased? Of course not. Everyone has its own favouritism, for example, some may favour natural talent/skill/flair over hardwork/determination/decisiveness, and vice versa. Once you have your own favouritism in your mind, you are already biased, even when the hardwork one beat the talented one, it doesn't matter, because you've already make up your mind, the talented one is always better, before the match even start.

I favour Cantona because of his charisma, he is the only King of football I recognised in the whole football world over past 30 years. He is not only the catalyst, he is also king of assist, a player with great flair and play with imagination, the ultimate leader on the pitch where every youngster would look up too, and kind of the influence/impact he has on our team is unmatched by any players I've watched. These are all of course, biased. But he is my favourite type of player and football character.

 

[K13]

Sorry to intervine but I've got a serious question. How would Cristiano Ronaldo look playing next to Lionel Messi in the same team ? Who would be the best player in that team ?

No apologies needed you are more than welcome to join this debate.

Phew that is a difficult question. I think they would both play very well together. I think they would work their roles out naturally ie Messi provider and Ronaldo finisher.

But given you asked the question, what do you think?

 

[Bole Top]

I genuinely think there's no debate to be had on footballing ability though, and I'll stick to that. It's like arguing against flat earthers, all the evidence is right there in front of them yet they fail to acknowledge it and come up with different explanations why X isn't X but is in fact Y despite all evidence pointing to X. That's how it feels to me if someone says Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi.

completely agree. I watched them both countless times; Ronaldo at United, Ronaldo at Madrid, Ronaldo for Portugal, Messi at Barca & Argentina and finally both of them on the same pitch - and not once, not a single time I thought I was looking at superior player in Ronnie. it was always a simple answer for me. I don't mind debating about what someone value more and how important is this and how important is that, but on question who is more talented, more complete and simply a better player of the two there was always a quick, simple answer for me. if anything, the main reason there's literally no debates in this thread about their skills and attributes is precisely because there's nothing to debate about.

 

[SportingCP96]

Deco and class definately go together. Just wonderful to watch in his prime and such a delicate weight of pass. Several years since he retired but feels like yesterday.

Bernardo has been sensational this season. The only reason they did not miss Kevin De Bruyne was because he filled the void. Right forward, central midfield - he played it all. First name on the team sheet. Some wonderfully crafted goals as well. He runs .. lots - 13km in the crucial game v Liverpool which they needed to win to put their title back on track and which they duly did. I wish he was English.

So we may disagree on the greatest but at least we both agree Deco was class

Listen in the end of the day to each their one you know.

I think Ronaldo and you think Messi which is fine thats what makes this topic and Sport fun. No hard feelings with anyone.

And Yes! we agree on both Deco and Silva so there is some common ground

Regarding Bernado he was great at Monaco as well and in his first year in City but this year...That dude just went up to another level that I was not sure he had. Kid has an engine as you pointed out and never stops running . What solidified him for me was that he was finally able to translate his club form into the national team as shown in the Nations cup and thats how I knew we had a PLAYER on our hands.

Lots of players coming up who can make a difference. Rumors in Portugal are that Porto are interested in Bruma who in Portugal would have the platform to turn his career around. I rate him highly he is very naturally talented but his Agent seems to be doing his best to ruin his career.

Anyways I digress back on topic

 

[K13]

Biased has much broader sense than nationality. I am not a Portuguese nor an Argentinian, if I chose Ronaldo over Messi, does that means I am not biased? Of course not. Everyone has its own favouritism, for example, some may favour natural talent/skill/flair over hardwork/determination/decisiveness, and vice versa. Once you have your own favouritism in your mind, you are already biased, even when the hardwork one beat the talented one, it doesn't matter, because you've already make up your mind, the talented one is always better, before the match even start.

I favour Cantona because of his charisma, he is the only King of football I recognised in the whole football world over past 30 years. He is not only the catalyst, he is also king of assist, a player with great flair and play with imagination, the ultimate leader on the pitch where every youngster would look up too, and kind of the influence/impact he has on our team is unmatched by any players I've watched. These are all of course, biased. But he is my favourite type of player and football character.

That is an interesting point and one I have not considered. I like both qualities. I admire James Milner for instance because he is the essence of hardwork/determination but I guess I want the very best to have a little bit more than that. I want them to have a level of ability that I could never hope to achieve even if I worked myself to the brink. Lampard was another player who got every last drop talent out of himself but I never warmed to him as much as I did the more natural Gerrard. There could be truth in your comment. I can't promise it is enough to change my mind but it certainly something to ponder.

Agree re Cantona ... that fa cup against Liverpool to seal the double still gives me goose bumps.

 

[K13]

Listen in the end of the day to each their one you know.

I think Ronaldo and you think Messi which is fine thats what makes this topic and Sport fun. No hard feelings with anyone.

And Yes! we agree on both Deco and Silva so there is some common ground

Regarding Bernado he was great at Monaco as well and in his first year in City but this year...That dude just went up to another level that I was not sure he had. Kid has an engine as you pointed out and never stops running . What solidified him for me was that he was finally able to translate his club form into the national team as shown in the Nations cup and thats how I knew we had a PLAYER on our hands.

Lots of players coming up who can make a difference. Rumors in Portugal are that Porto are interested in Bruma who in Portugal would have the platform to turn his career around. I rate him highly he is very naturally talented but his Agent seems to be doing his best to ruin his career.

Anyways I digress back on topic

It is fun debating ... it is huge respect to both players that there are enough people on both sides who care enough to state their case.

Interesting about Bruma and it is so easy to make the wrong choice. I suppose there is deep disappointment regarding Renato Sanches and how things have not gone to plan although at least he is playing for Bayern now. He was a complete disaster in the PL.

 

[shamans]

Err, okay then? I don't care how you judge my understanding of football. In (almost) every major ability or category I value in footballers, Messi trumps Ronaldo. "The ability to win football games" is such an arbitrary way to decide something, as it could swing the other way every other game.

But it doesn't. Ronaldo btw has better long shots, better shooting in the box, better strength, better heading, better stamina and better volleys if you want to talk specifics.

 

[Tostao_80]

Really?
Portugal at Euro 2012 had

Rewarded? How about ignoring that he carried all those teams to the finals?

You cant answer a question by asking another question. It means you don't want to engage in what's being asked. He specifically asked about the many below performances Cristiano has had in finals and him walking away with trophies because his teammates have bailed him out. How often has that happened with Leo? So often, in finals, if he doesn't perform, he isn't getting the trophy, Cristiano so much.

 

[SportingCP96]

It is fun debating ... it is huge respect to both players that there are enough people on both sides who care enough to state their case.

Interesting about Bruma and it is so easy to make the wrong choice. I suppose there is deep disappointment regarding Renato Sanches and how things have not gone to plan although at least he is playing for Bayern now. He was a complete disaster in the PL.

Never ever Rated Renato. Like literally not one bit. The only good thing about him is Physically he is a "beast"....it ends there because he is lacking in everything else to make it at a top level.

Bruma when he burst on to the scene at Sporting was fecking electric. Rapid player with bags of pace and he ran circles around defenders for fun. Had a breakout U20 WC in 2013 and started to add a final product to his game. Sporting wanted to renew his contract but his snake agent wanted money and Galatasaray was giving it to him. Bruma is blessed in a football standpoint but he is not the sharpest tool in the shed and his agent manipulated him quite easily. He took a step down in a lesser league and slowed his progress. Had he stayed in Sporting where he would have been a starter in a rebuilding year for us he would have been a star and gone to bigger heights IMO.




Left them for dead....

 

[Daysleeper]

But it doesn't. Ronaldo btw has better long shots, better shooting in the box, better strength, better heading, better stamina and better volleys if you want to talk specifics.[/QUOTE

But it doesn't. Ronaldo btw has better long shots, better shooting in the box, better strength, better heading, better stamina and better volleys if you want to talk specifics.

No, Messi has a better goal to game ratio, better from long range than Ronaldo better FK’s than Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is better at penalties and headers. That’s it.

In regards to playmaking Messi is much much better

 

[K13]

Bruma when he burst on to the scene at Sporting was fecking electric. Rapid player with bags of pace and he ran circles around defenders for fun. Had a breakout U20 WC in 2013 and started to add a final product to his game. Sporting wanted to renew his contract but his snake agent wanted money and Galatasaray was giving it to him. Bruma is blessed in a football standpoint but he is not the sharpest tool in the shed and his agent manipulated him quite easily. He took a step down in a lesser league and slowed his progress. Had he stayed in Sporting where he would have been a starter in a rebuilding year for us he would have been a star and gone to bigger heights IMO.

That was some run - it was like watching a kid playing with younger kids in the playground. Brilliant burst of pace especially after having done all the ducking and weaving - great stamina.

Lets hope he has learn't from it. At 24 he is in a key period but sadly some players are influenced by their agents and I guess he won't be the last to make the wrong choice.

Mind you I don't want your National team to get too good!

 

[SportingCP96]

That was some run - it was like watching a kid playing with younger kids in the playground. Brilliant burst of pace especially after having done all the ducking and weaving - great stamina.

Lets hope he has learn't from it. At 24 he is in a key period but sadly some players are influenced by their agents and I guess he won't be the last to make the wrong choice.

Mind you I don't want your National team to get too good!

Ya at 24 and at Porto I think he would have all the right pieces to get back on track I think it would be a great move though I wish he went to Sporting instead

To be fair England have some talent coming through as well and you guys have done well the past few tournaments. I think there are a few National teams who are starting to come all at the same time England,Netherlands, France,Portugal, and Belgium is still around. Germany is always in the mix too.

 

[RedRonaldo]

That is an interesting point and one I have not considered. I like both qualities. I admire James Milner for instance because he is the essence of hardwork/determination but I guess I want the very best to have a little bit more than that. I want them to have a level of ability that I could never hope to achieve even if I worked myself to the brink. Lampard was another player who got every last drop talent out of himself but I never warmed to him as much as I did the more natural Gerrard. There could be truth in your comment. I can't promise it is enough to change my mind but it certainly something to ponder.

Agree re Cantona ... that fa cup against Liverpool to seal the double still gives me goose bumps.

Well I like Ronaldo for another reason, when he is 19-24, he is actually one of the most electrifying and talented player I've ever watched.

But at the age of 24-28, for me this is actually the best version of Ronaldo, a combination of pace, skill, strength, trickery, athleticism, energy, drive, determination, consistency, explosiveness and of course, insane no. of goals too. Many have already forget this version of Ronaldo, he was unstoppable and unplayable at that time, a real beast. This version of Ronaldo, IMHO, is every bit as good as any of the GOAT in the past. Look, most of the GOAT in the past, only able to maintain 4 or 5 years at their very peak, if we only count this version of Ronaldo (24-28 years of age) vs other GOAT (4 or 5 years at their very peak), I have no doubt you people would rate him much higher in your list.



At age of 29-34, is actually the Ronaldo we all know, great goalscorer, a machine, probably the most impactful and successful player in the game, but less talented, less skilful, and getting less involved in build-up play too. I understand why people don't rate this version of Ronaldo. But at the same time, he has evolved into the most determined, most clutch, and a truly big game player in the world. This version of Ronaldo, has in fact, given me most wow moments, out of any players I've watched in the past. That 17 CL run, scoring 2 or 3 goals in every match, from quarters, to semi, to final, against the best team with best defence in Europe, is truly insane. And then of course the Euro, the CL three-peat, the 5th Ballon D'or etc. Even in the recent year, that bicycle kick vs Juventus, that hattrick vs Spain, and that hattrick vs Atletico, and most recently, that hattrick vs Switzerland, left me with my jaw dropped.

Look I totally respect others of choosing Messi over Ronaldo. For those who don't understand why we rate Ronaldo highly, we have our own strong reason too.

 

[K13]

Ya at 24 and at Porto I think he would have all the right pieces to get back on track I think it would be a great move though I wish he went to Sporting instead

To be fair England have some talent coming through as well and you guys have done well the past few tournaments. I think there are a few National teams who are starting to come all at the same time England,Netherlands, France,Portugal, and Belgium is still around. Germany is always in the mix too.

There are so many players I wish we had got that we didn't and also keeping Ronaldo would have been good although we knew he wanted to go and he left on the best of terms. There is so much money in the game and the European competitions have all expanded so players have a far wider choice. You only have to look at the number of players that went to play in China to know money does talk.

International is going to be exciting - lets hope the Euros are good next year and live up to the hype. Sometimes it just depends on what path you get to the final but I guess you need to beat the best to win it regardless.

May the best team win. Ronaldo will be 35 - if he stays injury free do you think he will go?

 

[SportingCP96]

There are so many players I wish we had got that we didn't and also keeping Ronaldo would have been good although we knew he wanted to go and he left on the best of terms. There is so much money in the game and the European competitions have all expanded so players have a far wider choice. You only have to look at the number of players that went to play in China to know money does talk.

International is going to be exciting - lets hope the Euros are good next year and live up to the hype. Sometimes it just depends on what path you get to the final but I guess you need to beat the best to win it regardless.

May the best team win. Ronaldo will be 35 - if he stays injury free do you think he will go?

Ronaldo will 100% go the Euro. I think as for the World Cup he would 37 at that point and that might be where he cant make it. Though for the WC it would not surprise me to see him get called up and have a super sub role coming off the bench or something along those lines. Calling up the greatest Portuguese player to ever do it for one last rodeo.

No doubt this is his last Euro though which makes me sad to be quite honest

I have some blinded faith he will still be banging goals in at 37 (I know probably not).

 

[K13]

Well I like Ronaldo for another reason, when he is 19-24, he is actually one of the most electrifying and talented player I've ever watched.

But at the age of 24-28, for me this is actually the best version of Ronaldo, a combination of pace, skill, strength, trickery, athleticism, energy, drive, determination, consistency, explosiveness and of course, insane no. of goals too. Many have already forget this version of Ronaldo, he was unstoppable and unplayable at that time, a real beast. This version of Ronaldo, IMHO, is every bit as good as any of the GOAT in the past. Look, most of the GOAT in the past, only able to maintain 4 or 5 years at their very peak, if we only count this version of Ronaldo (24-28 years of age) vs other GOAT (4 or 5 years at their very peak), I have no doubt you people would rate him much higher in your list.

At age of 29-34, is actually the Ronaldo we all know, great goalscorer, a machine, probably the most impactful and successful player in the game, but less talented, less skilful, and getting less involved in build-up play too. I understand why people don't rate this version of Ronaldo. But at the same time, he has evolved into the most determined, most clutch, and a truly big game player in the world. This version of Ronaldo, has in fact, given me most wow moments, out of any players I've watched in the past. That 17 CL run, scoring 2 or 3 goals in every match, from quarters, to semi, to final, against the best team with best defence in Europe, is truly insane. And then of course the Euro, the CL three-peat, the 5th Ballon D'or etc. Even in the recent year, that bicycle kick vs Juventus, that hattrick vs Spain, and that hattrick vs Atletico, and most recently, that hattrick vs Switzerland, left me with my jaw dropped.

Look I totally respect others of choosing Messi over Ronaldo. For those who don't understand why we rate Ronaldo highly, we have our own strong reason too.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing that. You are right there is alot of talent there and it is really nice to hear someone explain why they love him as a player in such an articulate manner. Often when we debate the best / greatest it turns into he won this or that so it is a nice change from the norm.

Ultimately it is just as important to consider the impact of something they have done on us as individuals. It is wonderful that you have been so inspired by Ronaldo and that he has given you such great off your seat moments. I can clearly see why you love him and believe him to be the greatest. My favourite goal was his salmon leap against Porto in the CL in 2008. Yes you are right he has had to reinvent himself from a winger to the ice cold clinical finisher as well. He is more than a self made player without doubt with a sharp intellect on and of the pitch and loads of natural talent. He is without doubt the best long range shooter I have seen as well as one of the best goal scorers. The power and swerve he gets is incredible.

I love all of what Ronaldo does but I love Messi just a little bit more because of the way he makes me feel as well.

I can't thank you enough for sharing that - I feel quite nostalgic now.

 

[Casanova85]

Argentina 2019 is literally a One Man Army. 11 vs 1.

At least the GK, Armani, looks decent.