I fully agree but Messi FC won’t have it, they find it hard to accept Ronaldo is better.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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I fully agree but Messi FC won’t have it, they find it hard to accept Ronaldo is better.
Ronaldo is a good passer in the same way Marco van Basten was a good passer. Intelligent, reliable, technically strong and, due to the positions they occupied, quite dangerous. Certainly not something to criticise in general, but when being discussed alongside Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini etc. not even worth mentioning as something in their favour. Messi is clearly in the latter category.
You're pulling out the opinion of f*cking pundits? Jesus wept. Funny you bring that up as Evra a few hours ago just said Ronaldo was tougher to play against, exactly because he could do things Messi could not - He's actually had to defend against both too, unlike those you mentioned.
Although you're debating a point I never made because I am well aware Messi is better at things than Ronaldo. Just as Ronaldo is better at things as well. They're different stylistically and both are complete attacking threats. Are you trying to suggest prime Ronaldo wasn't a great dribbler? That he didn't score difficult goals? If it was as universally accepted as you suggest the rivalry wouldn't exist - Ronaldo wouldn't be winning the awards he is and you'd be talking to yourself right now. Ronaldo has a lot more free kick goals - Your statistic is skewed and you know exactly why - But don't let that affect your agenda. Let's just ignore than Messi has played in La Liga longer and assume Ronaldo done nothing prior to Madrid. Solid points mate.
Where was Ronaldo? Just breaking almost every CL record going, both team and individual. He's taken apart some of the best defences in the world over the last few years consistently and scored far more goals in the knockout stage than Messi has at a better ratio. I could add this to your stupid list but the entire point you're trying to make is ridiculous. They do some things better than the other and have done things more than other. Shocker.
Players declining with age is not a hypothetical ffs. Ronaldo has dropped off in areas but adapted superbly in others and managed to be as effective as ever. Messi will eventually drop off physically whether it's now or 2022. He will have to adapt as well and I wouldn't put it past him doing so as he is a phenomenon, like Ronaldo. I haven't even called Ronaldo a better player - You're literally making things up to sound incisive. You're making a fool of yourself. La Liga's POTY is the holy grail now? Not the actual World Player of the Year? Listen to yourself. Do you equate hat-tricks against Levante to hat-tricks at the Allianz too?
You're hatred of the man is unhealthy. Maybe take a walk.
Now, I want to be serious and respectful, we have almost all of his actions yesterday here.
What did he do yesterday so exceptional to his career standards? And I'm asking you because you've been watching him his whole career, World Cup and Euro games.
To me, he had a great first half (good movements, nice passing and association, but nothing out of the ordinary for what we should be expecting of a top 10 player). He scored a penalty from an action he milked (more Nacho mistake than anything, imo), and a long shot that should be easy to block by any decent goalkeeper. Then there's the second half, he was a passenger like everyone on his team, Ramos and Pique fixed something at halftime, he did nothing until Pique gifted him a foul that he masterfully executed.
But do you think beyond efficiency (3 goals in 4 shots and that includes a howler and a peno) this was a top-3 performance for him at major tournaments with Portugal?. I think he just collected some deserved good karma, 3 goals in his past 3 World Cups was an unfair balance to his career. He was Portugal's best and only hope yesterday, but what irks me is that somehow people are turning this game into one of his best performances because of raw output, I think 80% of his games from the past 3 WC's were better than this one, despite numbers saying he did as much in the last 90' than the previous 1k+.
Does anyone actually doubt that Messi and Barca have been better than Ronaldo and Madrid in La Liga? Do you think that we should therefore ignore Ronaldo's performances in the PL and CL?
They've both played many disappointing games with their national teams, alongside some matchwinning ones, so I don't think there's much to see there. What's intriguing people is that (basically since Santos came in) Ronaldo has started to look more at ease and more effective for Portugal than ever before in his career. Ever since these two started to be seen as competitors for the same trophies, there's been a kind of arms race underway. People are waiting for the Messi (and Argentinian) response.
are there really people who can't at least understand the other side of the argument on who is better? 
are there really people who can't at least understand the other side of the argument on who is better?
The reasonable ones in the thread are the ones who think 1) both are GOAT's 2) There is very little to choose between the two 3) Messi is a more skilled player but Ronaldo is the more effective player so the final choice is subjective.
The unreasonable ones are the ones who think 1) Messi doesn't play well under pressure 2) Ronaldo is a striker 3) Neymar and Salah are better players than Ronaldo etc.
I don't feel the need to be respectful so I'll just say that's bonkers
First of all that video is not complete, he won a lot more duels than that. He was incredible with his back to goal (which he's massively improved at), was perfect in his decision making on the ball which isn't always the case, won fouls, was important in defensive set pieces, a threat on the counter and he scored 3 goals on top of it all. I mean... what more can you ask from a player? It was a perfect performance.
On top of that, the performance will be highlighted by the fact Portugal didn't even play well while Spain were geniunely fantastic. It was a very hard game for a player to look as good as he did and you always have to take into consideration the circumstances of the game. He was invisible for a long period of the second half but what was he supposed to do? Spain are better and noone can control the ball against them. Taking the importance of matches into account, Netherlands in 2012 and Sweden in 2013 are the only 2 performances for the national team that I'd easily put above this one but in both of those games it was a lot easier to look good. There are maybe a few others that should make the cut but 80% is ridiculous.
Everyone is going about Messis peak.
I noticed hes peak was just around Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol prime aswell. Maybe it has something to do with that aswell?
I noticed hes peak was just around Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol prime aswell. Maybe it has something to do with that aswell?
It's not good game by his standards, it's good game considering how shite his teammates were. It's nowhere near his best, but he was pretty much the only Argentina player playing and actually doing anything with the ball, so I have no idea how can you criticise him for anything else apart for the penalty(which deserves criticism), he is not a robot.
I don't think it is an outlandish claim in any way to have Di Stefano, Cruyff or Beckenbauer in there over Ronaldo or Messi. You can put them into the Top5, but is no certainty.
I just realised I post this in the thread where all the Ronaldo and Messi fanboys make emotional posts, feck
Edit: And I posted this with a biased user name as well, I'm fecked
Why was Dybala on the bench? Why is he standing still when his teammates have the ball? Why are his teammates standing still when he has the ball?
There’s plenty to criticize about the way Argentina play football and Messi is a big part of that. Today’s match was nothing new and if they keep playing the same way it’s unlikely results will get much better.
I talk about how people base their opinion on these players and you start going off on how Ronaldo proved me wrong by being great in one WC game?? Is this straw man week or are you just desperate to shout out that Ronaldo can also be great in the WC? This is like Mr.Vancouver all over again, "you said mean things about Ronaldo before and now it's payback time!!"
However, I've never ignored what he did for Portugal, or Real for that matter. At best I've ignored the final in the EC since he walked off injured before he got the chance to do anything. I also haven't "constantly downplayed what he was doing for Real Madrid", that's pure BS. Maybe I have downplayed the praise he's gotten for various things because I've always judged him and every other player on what they actually do, not what their team does, but as you seem to be viewing any and every semi-negative remark about Ronaldo as a declaration of war against yourself then perhaps it's not so strange that you say these things.
That you have argued with other people has nothing to do with me. You and a few others in here fail to realise that not all people who think Messi is better agree with everyone else on everything they say in this thread. It seems to be painfully difficult to separate the individual from the group, not only when it comes to players but also posters apparently.
If you honestly think that me saying things like "he was by far the best player on the pitch" could be described as "downplaying everything he did" then I don't know what to say.. the word delusional comes to mind.
I’m still in the Messi being better camp, but I can’t deny Ronaldo has the superior mentality. Both incredible players that we all take for granted. Sad day when they both hang up the boots and we look back at their contributions.
nah he did pretty much nothing all game. towards the end he even got a lot of space to run into but was pondering over the ball a lot. cant agree he played well at all.
I’d suggest Dybala
Goals and CL
I talk about how people base their opinion on these players and you start going off on how Ronaldo proved me wrong by being great in one WC game?? Is this straw man week or are you just desperate to shout out that Ronaldo can also be great in the WC? This is like Mr.Vancouver all over again, "you said mean things about Ronaldo before and now it's payback time!!"
However, I've never ignored what he did for Portugal, or Real for that matter. At best I've ignored the final in the EC since he walked off injured before he got the chance to do anything. I also haven't "constantly downplayed what he was doing for Real Madrid", that's pure BS. Maybe I have downplayed the praise he's gotten for various things because I've always judged him and every other player on what they actually do, not what their team does, but as you seem to be viewing any and every semi-negative remark about Ronaldo as a declaration of war against yourself then perhaps it's not so strange that you say these things.
No, you just apparently need to read the conversation again... you were the one that replied to me on that.
Semi-negative remark
you can pretend to be fair however you like but the bitterness and anger is beyond obvious which is why I think it's funny and replied to you in the first place. You can't give him praise for a great performance without downplaying what he's done a few times, it's incredible.Plenty of negative comments about Ronaldo I agree with. When I disagree I reply, the only one here declaring war is yourself which is understandable.
You literally said those things though... it's just that a bunch of other people did too.
substitutes cant take pens mate
Personally think the mods should close this abomination of a thread. Fanatics and fanbois ruin just about anything worthwhile.
you can choose to not open the thread though
This is true, and I seldom post in this thread rife with nonsense. My comment still holds true.
Perspective. He wasn’t playing Iceland with Aguero and Di Maria on his side. He was playing against the mighty Spain with bunch of nobodies next to him, no offense.
No shit, Sherlock!
Ronaldo put 3 goals past arguably the best goalkeeper in the world while Messi couldn’t score against a goalkeeper who is a photographer in Iceland.
If the roles were reversed, you wouldn’t be giving excuses for Ronaldo. Look at the players around Messi....
Higuain - Juventus
Dybala - Juventus
Rojo - Man Utd
Otamendi - Man City
Caballero - Chelsea
Aguero - Man City
Di Maria - PSG.
Look at the players around Ronaldo. None of them plays in a top team in Europe and yet Ronaldo’s outstanding mentality shone through even when facing a more difficult opponent(Spain).
Ronaldo is clearly the better player....no debating!
They should have started with Dybalasubstitutes cant take pens mate
At the end, Ronaldo won the debate.
best place to see the Messi brigade cry.
Stop it with stuff like this.
Objectively, have you noticed the upturn in ronaldo fans starting to state their opinion as fact?
Has anyone’s opinion changed on the two over the last 24hours?
Google Iceland vs Portugal Euro 2016.
We’re 1 game into the WC lol
I don't feel the need to be respectful so I'll just say that's bonkers
First of all that video is not complete, he won a lot more duels than that. He was incredible with his back to goal (which he's massively improved at), was perfect in his decision making on the ball which isn't always the case, won fouls, was important in defensive set pieces, a threat on the counter and he scored 3 goals on top of it all. I mean... what more can you ask from a player? It was a perfect performance.
On top of that, the performance will be highlighted by the fact Portugal didn't even play well while Spain were geniunely fantastic. It was a very hard game for a player to look as good as he did and you always have to take into consideration the circumstances of the game. He was invisible for a long period of the second half but what was he supposed to do? Spain are better and noone can control the ball against them. Taking the importance of matches into account, Netherlands in 2012 and Sweden in 2013 are the only 2 performances for the national team that I'd easily put above this one but in both of those games it was a lot easier to look good. There are maybe a few others that should make the cut but 80% is ridiculous.
He won 5 duels out of 8, 2 of them were in the video the other 3 were irrelevant to the game, highlight videos won't show that, so I bothered making you happy
Here you have, his 5 won duels
His "incredible back to goal" came 30 meters away from the goal, heatmap + passes, he got 1 key pass but I think it was that pass to Guedes on a counter.
"Got fouled" 4 times, same as Messi today, no one will praise him for that.
"Important in defensive set pieces" had a defensive aerial duel, lost it, Spain had 5 corners, but only 3 aerial duels happened in Portugal's area.
Ronaldo, a passenger in the 3 aerial duels from set pieces that took part on Portugal's area. Surely a key man.
I get you might want to romantice a game where a player scored 3 goals against a favourite in the tournament, but as I said, beyond those 3 individual moments (enough to have a great game) and good link up moments in the first half, it itches me that people have to invent his contributions in other areas.
Can't believe this thread has been so busy past two days with the season over too
That does not negate my point. If Ronaldo was born in Argentina, he would have won 5 Copa & 2 world cups by now.
Messi with the luxury of playing with some of the finest football players in Argentina can’t win f@ck all.
He won 5 duels out of 8, 2 of them were in the video the other 3 were irrelevant to the game, highlight videos won't show that, so I bothered making you happy
Here you have, his 5 won duels
His "incredible back to goal" came 30 meters away from the goal, heatmap + passes, he got 1 key pass but I think it was that pass to Guedes on a counter.
"Got fouled" 4 times, same as Messi today, no one will praise him for that.
"Important in defensive set pieces" had a defensive aerial duel, lost it, Spain had 5 corners, but only 3 aerial duels happened in Portugal's area.
Ronaldo, a passenger in the 3 aerial duels from set pieces that took part on Portugal's area. Surely a key man.
I get you might want to romantice a game where a player scored 3 goals against a favourite in the tournament, but as I said, beyond those 3 individual moments (enough to have a great game) and good link up moments in the first half, it itches me that people have to invent his contributions in other areas.
By the stats he had 15 duels, won 9. He cleared the ball twice defensively on two set pieces, did you watch the game? If you're just following some stat website then they got that wrong. I'd love to know which aerial duel he lost while defending a set piece... his incredible back to goal work didn't come 30 meters away from goal only, he won a free kick which he scored for example. Also not sure why it would matter how far it is. Winning 4 fouls against Spain vs winning 4 fouls vs Iceland... come on.
This is if you rate performances by those nonsensical stats you use, which I don't because it's stupid. He was incredible, you're the only person on Earth who believes he was better than this in 80% of the matches he played in big international tournaments. That's a completely ridiculous statement and at this point I'm not sure I've ever been disagreed so much with someone on the way they judge players on a football pitch so I don't really see the point in us discussing football.
No, he didn't, Messi was dominating this poll until the mods started screwing with it out of pettiness.
And against Iceland, Ronaldo couldn't score either and Portugal drew 1-1.
Spain was a much more open game, Di Maria has been woeful, Aguero had a nice goal.
The best goalkeeper who happened to slip a straight forward save into the net. Yep. Definitely at his best day. Silly arguement to bring in.
Re. me not using the same excuses if roles were reversed - no I wouldn't, because unlike you (by your comments) I'm perfectly happy to accept Ronaldo as the GOAT if he deserves it. I've been praising Ronaldo for an iconic performance on this and in real life after last night.
No debating? Stop being such a child. It's your opinion which I'm happy to accept. To say that there is no debate is just a silly approach. You can be a Ronaldo fan, but you don't need to shit on Messi in the same instance. There is clearly a debate in there otherwise the world wouldn't be constantly debating who's best.
We'll know who the GOAT is when both have retired. Messi has two extra years on Ronaldo, and Ronaldo could go on until he's 40.
Let's wait and see and continue to debate until then. "No debate" - Jesus Christ.
Bore off with statements like that. That’s not how extrapolation works.
because they were up against a team thats at least 3 or 4 levels above in terms of possesion. anyone who watched the game yesterday would say ronaldo was probably the best player on the pitch for both teams. if that is less than 80% of his other games then other games have to be pele 1970 levels
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