Have you been living under a rock? He led Madrid to the CL 3-peat, CL topscorer for the 7th time? He's now won the CL as many times as every club in the world except Real and Milan...What has Ronaldo done that makes him "deservedly favourite"?.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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He didn't really lead them to the Champions league though, he lead them to the semi-finals and pulled a disappearing act. And all those Group Stage goals were in 2017 and are therefore irrelevant to the Ballon D 'OR.
44 goals against 45 goals is worse, surely you can see that? Or do you also think someone who scored 10 goals in 9 games this season had a better season statistically because he has a better goal per game ratio than Messi and Ronaldo?Because every trophy is worth exactly the same as each other, as are each goal.
Worse stats?
Ronaldo has 44 goals from 44 matches for Real
Messi has 45 goals from 54 matches for Barca
He was the top scorer again in the biggest competition in club football and won it for a record 5th time (as many as LFC).
Very much deservedly favourite.
A league trophy is a much better indicator of performances throughout the year than a cup trophy. Ronaldo has had some very good games in the CL, especially in the knock-out stages where he was very important for Real although he went missing in the semis and definitely went missing in the final. Messi was very poor against Roma which is part of the reason they got eliminated, but that does not mean Ronaldo has had a better season, far from it. Whether it's the 20th time in a row he won the CL or the first time should be irrelevant as well since it's just one year you have to take into account, otherwise I could just point out that Messi has 7 La Liga's in the last 10 years as well. Oh and didn't he score a hattrick last night? Doesn't count since it was against Haïti I guess.
Your almost unhealthy love-in for Ronaldo makes it pretty much impossible to have a rational discussion about their rivalry because you're clearly too biased and will not ever change your opinion, which is fair enough, but I'm just going to stop here as it's no use arguing about it with you.
And just for the record I appreciate them both equally but just think Messi is the more complete and better player. I also think Ronaldo will struggle to make an impact with Portugal.
Whilst I'm not denying he shouldn't be in contention surely past CL wins shouldn't be a factor in this year's assessment.
The only question mark I have over Ronaldo is that he went missing after the second leg against Juve. Otherwise I would have him down as favourite.
Best goalscorer? Ronaldo
Best player overall? Not Ronaldo
You said "less goals than Messi, worse statistics than Messi" so assumed you were talking about goal/game or some kind of statistics, rather than just making EXACTLY the same point twice in a row.
Everybody knows the CL is much more important to the Ballon D'or voting than La Liga, and the league v CL debate is already done to death.
I have gone on record saying I will never question Messi again if he wins the WC, but he failed.
If we really want to do 2018 alone. Ronaldo has scored more this year than Messi.
Ronaldo struggling to make an impact for Portugal? What year is this?
Tired of people that never watch Portugal claiming Ronaldo only does what he does because of his Real Madrid teammates and that he'd struggle at other clubs as if what he's been doing with Portugal the past years has happened on a different universe.
In terms of productivity, 22 goals in 30 games are far more better than say 10 goals in 10 games. But come on, 44 goals in 44 games is definitely more impressive than 45 goals in 54 games.
Where the feck did I say he hasn't been influencial for Portugal in the past years? I said I think he'll struggle in the upcoming World Cup, I'll gladly admit I was wrong afterwards.
Arguing about semantics here, but I'll play devil's advocate and say that it proves that Messi is a better athlete since he was able to play more games, thus has better durability than Ronaldo has at the moment?
Are 44 goals and 8 assists in 44 matches better than 45 goals and 18 assists in 54 matches?
Interesting that since assists don't favour Ronaldo they're completely discarded.
Interesting that since assists don't favour Ronaldo they're completely discarded.
Seriously?
No, of course not, but he did score more goals.Seriously?
If you look at 2018 alone, I think Ronaldo is one of the favourites but not convincingly and not per se "deservedly so" as you said. I think the World Cup will probably decide who ends up winning it, but I maintain my point of view that La Liga + CDR = CL, as it's also hard to win a cup competition and your domestic league at the same time. Real has been able to focus on the CL all year long and Ronaldo was non-existent in the final and most parts of the semis. I'd say it's very close up till now between Ronaldo, Messi and Salah.
It isn't only about Ronaldo or Messi, but just the logic of argument in terms of magnitude of no. of goals scored vs no. of games played. If people think Messi is having a better season than Ronaldo base on other reason, I am absolutely fine with that.
If you have to bring up goals against Chelsea and Arsenal to justify his contribution (one team who didn't qualify for CL and other who never goes past RO16) then fair enough. I agree with the bayern thrashing and that's what I remember Messi for being crucial in key games.
Ronaldo on the other hand has scored against the best of the lot - PSG, Bayern last season and in 2014, Juventus almost everytime, Atletico. You name it.
Im not belittling Messi for what he has done, he has been influential. But I have seen a lot of posters talking about Ronaldo missing for 3 games and how RM carried him. Messi also couldn't do it against Roma, Atletico, Juventus. I don't find it justified at all. RM's resurgence this season is all because of ronaldo banging in like 40 goals and people deprive him of all credit just because of those 3 games.
If the Ballon d'Or really is only about the UCL these days, maybe Sadio Mane deserves it? Top scorer in 2018 with 7 goals, scoring in every KO round including the final.
Let’s agree to disagree regarding CL v Spanish double.
I think Ronaldo is deservedly favorite (not short priced fav) cos he won the big one, there’s no getting away from that. But I do not think it’s a foregone conclusion like this time last year.
Right now, I’d say
Ronaldo 50%
Messi 30%
Salah 10%
Neymar 10%
Like the way messi led Argentina till the 2nd round and then "disappeared"? See , both can play this game
I am not holding him to higher standards. I simply expect him to do more than just playing short passes and running into the box for finishes.
I exemplarily gave him credit for his goal against Barcelona that he initiated himself. Would never reference it if Messi scored it because you are used to it to say the very least.
And you don't really want to say that Ronaldo was arguably the best player in the second leg against Juventus, do you? That would indeed be hilarious.
The thing is, he only needs to dribble two meters with the ball at his feet or take an easy foul and you already consider it a good action.
I don't call him atrocious because I don't like him or anything. If he performs good according to my criteria, I will say it. But in my eyes, Ronaldo does not play like a player of his reputation by any means. I loved the Ronaldo that rushed past players and had dangerous shots as soon as he had the space for it but this one is long gone. And even this iteration was worse than Messi.
The best Real Madrid player, I said. And he was, you can look up every rating from newspapers or stat websites to find most other people agree with that. Created chances, run his ass off for the team, was good on the ball, scored the goal, etc. yet you call him atrocious. It's hilarious. Maybe you should revaluate your criteria because it's not in line with most people. There's the difference though, if Messi had played some side passes you'd say he'd been involved in the build up. When Ronaldo does it then he's invisible.
He's the only player in the world who makes teammates around him be immune to criticism from other club's fans (Madrid fans have no problem doing it), that's a great quality to have and this criticism he'll get instead is what makes me positive he'll keep being motivated to stay at the top even now that he's reached a point in his career where he could very well retire as there's nothing else to accomplish. If Ronaldo played for Bayern and Lewandowski for Madrid I guarantee you suddenly Bayern would have the best midfield and fullbacks in the world. It's a fantastic phenomenon.
Kek if you think Ronaldo has the same influence on the team as Messi, I know you are Portuguese and all but still being so irrational. So suddenly Modric is world class coz he can feed Ronaldo to score all the tap ins that he does, Marcelo for all his extravagance, Ronaldo’s presence is what gives him that ability lel. If only messi played with the likes of modric and Marcelo, these guys would be twice the players they already are. I’ve spoken to many madridstars and they all agree that Messi is the better player. If you think Ronaldo is better then fair enough but atleast don’t say things like he makes average players like Marcelo, kroos, modric and benzema look wc. I looked at benzemain the final with nothing but envy, what I would do to have him instead of Suarez.
Suarez is fantastic but he’s lost so much to his game and on the other hand benzema is just head and shoulders above Suarez in the big games.
I look at madrid’s Bench too and my goodness, we have to rely on the likes of denis Suarez and deulofeu at the start of the season, Paulinho too ffs whereas how many games in the cl knockout rounds did the substitutes win for Madrid. You are crazy if you think Madrid don’t have the best squad in the world.
We are talking about the match after which VancouverUtdFan bumped this thread in order to proactively protect Ronaldo from criticism by analogously saying "Well, he didn't play well but at least he scored the penalty, Messi would've missed it?" You can re-read the reactions in here. Real was really bad and Ronaldo was no exception.
However, I just rewatched his game highlights due to your claims. Have to admit that "atrocious" takes it too far, but it definitely wasn't a good performance. I've seen maybe three or four good offensive actions and this is just not enough for me over the course of 90 minutes for me. Take his penalty away and his performance wouldn't be any better than Messi's in the second leg against Roma which gets depicted as one of the worst games a footballer can have by Cal? and you.
How come his magical power doesn't work with Argentina? All these Argentinian players must be dreadful footballers considering they're blessed with the Messi magic yet continually win nothing for their country.It was better even without the penalty and I didn't even say anything close to that about Messi's performance, I don't think I even specifically comment about that game. I criticized how often it had happened to him in recent years. I think I criticized more his lack of leadership (and from Barcelona in general) and the way the team crumbled more than the way he played.
I don't think Ronaldo makes them play significantly better, I think having Ronaldo in the team means others don't get criticized. Playing with Messi nowadays is the exact opposite. It's impossible to be Messi's teammate without having thousands of people online abusing you everytime you fail at something. The fact you think the likes of Casemiro, Kroos or Carvajal had good seasons and you'd prefer Benzema to Suarez just says it all.
Take Ronaldo out of Madrid, replace him with a great striker and Bayern, Juve, Barcelona and City all have better squads. Put Ronaldo in those teams and suddenly their players would stop getting criticism and their midfield would be the best in the world
Madrid's midfield got dominated every time they came up against a very good team this season and they don't get one bit of criticism for it from non-Madrid fans. They're actually getting praise for it.
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I think you'll find that the weak aspect of the Real side is their defence. I don't have statistics in front of me regarding possession, territory, etc, but I do know that Real scored 94 in the league this season, only 5 less than Barcelona. They also won the Champions League, almost entirely due to the number of goals that they scored, although it helps when they're handed goals on a plate, as they were in both the semi-finals and final.
However, it's blindingly obvious that Ronaldo is past his best, and to claim that at this point in time he is a better player than Messi is just stupefyingly ignorant! (I find it hard to believe that people claimed this in the past, but to claim it today is literally unbelievable). Undoubtedly, he is still an excellent poacher, and he will score goals in most teams, and a lot of goals in a team like Real Madrid who dominate virtually every game.
If the team doesn't make chances for him, he will do nothing. As he did in the Champions League final. He will now contribute absolutely nothing else at all. Because he can't run past people, he can't dribble at a high level, his passing is mediocre, he doesn't have the skillset that Messi does.
That's why Messi tops every statistical category in La Liga (even goalscoring, which is Ronaldo's only contribution). Because he has this unique skillset, which no-one else possesses. There is no-one else that does and can do what Messi does. Look at the statistics for all of the top leagues, he is the only player who even comes remotely close to topping all of the categories. That's because no-one else can do what he does, because he's a unique talent.
You must surely have noticed that Ronaldo plays, as Graeme Souness put it, "the width of the box". He's a poacher. He doesn't do anything else. He can't do anything else now.
It's literally unbelievable that people could argue against this, or claim that Ronaldo makes more of a contribution than Messi. By arguing against this you're demonstrating either:
(a) you're completely biased and incapable of being even remotely objective;
(b) you don't understand football at all;
(c) you are literally blind and cannot see what players do on the field of the play;
(d) you are willing to go against the blanket opinion of pundits and experts, who all say that Ronaldo isn't the player that he used to be;
(e) a combination of the four.
You can see in the video, which I've referenced previously, "Lampard and Ferdinand on the argument of Messi not winning a WC and on Messi vs Ronaldo" that Rio Ferdinand says precisely this.
So at this point your argument is...because Real Madrid won the Champions League, Ronaldo is a better player, even though he didn't do anything in the final. But he can still take credit for the final, and he's still better than Messi, even though Messi completely outperformed him in every way this season apart from not winning the Champions League, which is Messi's fault, even though he's been playing an absolute blinder all season.
And although Messi has a far superior skillset to Ronaldo, which is absolutely obvious and even on this thread no-one has tried to refute this, Ronaldo is still the better player, because he scored more goals, even though he scored less goals in La Liga where they can be directly compared, he doesn't do anything else other than score goals, virtually all of this goals are tap-ins, whereas Messi scores tonnes of brilliant and inspired goals. For example, he broke the La Liga free-kick record this season, whereas Ronaldo is now about as likely to score a free-kick as I am.
When Messi was winning the Champions League that wasn't fair because he was in a better team, and he won due to his team, even though Messi was the standout player by miles, but when Ronaldo wins the Champions League in a better team, Ronaldo deserves the primary credit for this, even when he does nothing and they mainly win due to Gareth Bale!
To say that these arguments beggar belief is an understatement!
I was listening to a radio programme the other day, the only decent one on TalkSport, and the presenter Andy Jacobs said "I don't know how anybody could think that Cristiano is better than Leo Messi". The simple answer is because some people are incapable of being objective. Anyone objective will conclude that Messi is better. He just clearly is the better footballer. Anyone who claims otherwise is just making themselves look ridiculous.
You literally argued yesterday that Gareth Bale was a better player than Cristiano Ronaldo and you've gone ahead and made a worst post by typing line after line of stupidity. It would take me one hour to reply to the amount of stupid things you wrote in that post and half of that post is you repeating 'Messi is better. Disagree? You're stupid' so I'm not even going to bother given you didn't reply to me last time either.
And Ronaldo isn't the player he used to be, neither is Messi.
You don't support a team alright...
I used to get involved in loads of these debates. For the record I prefer Mess, as I genuinely think he is more of a team player, and over his career, when all is done, I am sure history will show he will score more and create more than Ronaldo.
But...Ronaldo keeps scoring to be fair to him, and I struggle to see how Messi will get his CL goals record, but Messi has lots of other amazing records, as does Ronaldo.
I just feel pleasured to have seen 2 of the greatest players of all time, play at the same time, competing year after year after year.
The debate will go on about who was better for decades, so just enjoy what you see, it won’t be long before tue both hang up their boots.
But...Ronaldo keeps scoring to be fair to him, and I struggle to see how Messi will get his CL goals record, but Messi has lots of other amazing records, as does Ronaldo.
I just feel pleasured to have seen 2 of the greatest players of all time, play at the same time, competing year after year after year.
The debate will go on about who was better for decades, so just enjoy what you see, it won’t be long before tue both hang up their boots.
I said the following:
I stand by that comment. We will never know because Bale will never be allowed to do that.
In terms of making stupid comments in my previous post I said the following:
That's a fact.
I find it hard to imagine anyone could disagree with this.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with this.
I find it hard to believe anyone could disagree with this.
I find it impossible to believe that anyone could disagree with this.
This is a fact.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with this.
This is a fact.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with this.
I find it impossible to believe that anyone could disagree with this. Or if they do then they're disagreeing with Souness and Ferdinand.
This is a fact.
This is a fact.
So I'd love for you to point out which comments were stupid, and respond to them with some sort of remotely constructive argument. I won't hold my breath.
“I would just like to take this opportunity to apologise.........
TO ABSOLUTELY NO ONE! THE 5 TIME CL KING DOES WHAT THE FECK HE WANTS!”
This is really an amazing achievement!
Especially considering that Barca has only 5 CL/Champions Cups in their whole history. Only Real (13) and Milan (7) have more! Amazing!
What the hell? Kroos, Modric and Casemiro are easily the best midfield in the world right now. It isn't like there's a Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets midfield around, the second best is probably de Bruyne, Silva and Fernandinho followed by Thiago, Martinez and James or Motta, Verratti and Rabiot. And Madrid still has Isco, Kovacic and Ceballos as "back ups". And don't get me started with Marcelo, Ramos, Bale etc. who all played decisive roles in winning the CL titles.
Madrid has the best squad in the world, even if you take Ronaldo out and put another striker in. Just like Barcelona in 2009-2011 had the best team even without Messi. You are downplaying the world's best players in there respective positions in order to present Ronaldo in a better light and this is just wrong.
100% spot on
Jesus not this misconception bullshit again
And for the hundredth time, this excuse Messi plays for some MLS calibre side...
Messi also has the higher scoring supporting cast/players on Barca compared to Ronaldo on Madrid. Look at each clubs leading goal scorers...Messi has players who score more than Ronaldo’s teammates do on Madrid but go on and make such a ludicrous statement if it means you keep floating in your boat.
^Ronaldo has scored over 50% of his teams goals and is well ahead of anyone on a team that’s scored over 20 goals (larger sample size). Yet Messi homers have the audacity to spew out that it’s more likely Madrid win when Ronaldo doesn’t score compared to Messi not scoring because CR7’s team relies less on him compared to Messi. Yea, that’s cute. Deluded opinion, meet facts.
That’s disregarding when they had Neymar too which is another player which favours Barca as the superior starter. Barca are on the verge of getting Griezmann too. Can’t wait to hear the same excuse that Messi has the poorer side if Madrid win again (which I doubt as a 4peat would be madness)
What???? No, they simply are not and have played nothing like the best midfield in the world in the slightest this season. They were the best in the world for 2016-17, they have most definitely not been the best midfield in the world in any other season. Casemiro has been below standard all year long, Kroos has been worse than Rakitic this season and Modric didn't dominate one single game. The only big game Madrid dominated was the second leg vs PSG and he wasn't playing. They aren't the best in the world, Bayern had the best midfield in the world this season and it's why Bayern's midfield COMPLETELY dominated Madrid's midfield when they played eachother. Juve did the same and PSG did it in the first leg too. City would have done the same and even Barcelona have managed to do it too. Comparing Ronaldo's teammates in the past 3 years with Messi's teammates from 2009 to 2012 has to be a joke. It's beyond ridiculous. Barcelona were better just about in every single position.
Messi didn't just play with great players. Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suarez and Ibra are arguably the third, fourth, fifth, sixth and the seventh greatest players of this generation for fecks sake. Nevermind Ronaldinho, Henry, Etoo, etc from previous generations... there has been no other great player in the history of the freaking sport who has had better teammates around him throughout his career than Lionel Messi. And he's managed to win a fraction of what most other greats won.
On top of that he manages to get more people online crying about his teammates than anyone has or will ever get. It's hilarious.
Now the World Cup will come, Pique and Ramos will look like equals for Spain, Modric and Rakitic for Croatia, Umtiti and Varane for France... Suarez will shine for Uruguay as usual, Coutinho for Brazil, Dembele for France, Ter Stegen for Germany, Busquets, Iniesta and Alba for Spain, etc.. and the likes of Otamendi and Higuain will start getting shit from thousands of people as usual because they think Messi somehow deserves a title despite shitting the bed every opportunity he's had.
Jesus not this misconception bullshit again
That’s disregarding when they had Neymar too which is another player which favours Barca as the superior starter. Barca are on the verge of getting Griezmann too. Can’t wait to hear the same excuse that Messi has the poorer side if Madrid win again (which I doubt as a 4peat would be madness)
You should really spend more time watching football. Everything you say is so unbelievable superficial. Your posts simply scream to heaven "I have no idea what I'm talking about but I like Ronaldo and here are some statistics I found on his social media fan pages, so don't dare questioning my opinion or I'm going to drown you in laughing smileys".
I mean Peyroteo still makes somewhat rational arguments that show that he understands football and he also has the excuse of being Portuguese but you and Cal?.. You are so inconsequent and so clueless it is almost cute.
This is what you resort to every time you’re called out on your bs agenda/narratives so I’m not surprised you’ve done the same here.
Again, Barca have the more number of superior/quality starters position-for-position than Madrid. If you want to refute that by all means go ahead and do so but resorting to this default behaviour doesn’t do you any good. It just shows you’re at a loss for words and redirecting to change the subject.
...but good try attempting to spin that narrative for the hundredth time in the past months. I’ll keep shooting it down and until you have a response it doesn’t hold any merit.
Ditto.
I’m telling you all @Zehner will do is continue to spew this bullshit narrative and then cry when called out on it and spin it back on us as if it’s not true when in fact it is.
Same old same old, some things never change...
Sorry, but I completely disagree. I watch Real Madrid solely because I want to see Modric, Kroos, Isco and Marcelo play. For me, this midfield has a rightful claim of being the second best in history. The Modric-Kroos axis may be behind Xavi and Iniesta but they are their worthy successors. By the way, Kroos this season still has a 93% passing accuracy, 2.4 key passes and 6.8 long balls per game. Rakitic is at 90%, 0.8 and 4.1. He is nowhere near Kroos.
Real Madrid's midfield is the main reason why they turned from a good international team to a squad that won four CLs in five seasons. Kroos wasn't at his best at the start of the season but I've seen many good games of him and Modric. But so was the complete squad, Real Madrid was simply generally worse than the last years and got the title with a lot of luck.
And as I said, the midfield wins you titles. No MSN, BBC or whatever the media calls all these fancy attacking lines. Matches these days are decided in the tight midfield spaces and Real Madrid was simply the best squad in these areas during the last three to five years. Each of their players would walk into the midfields you mentioned. Bayern fans are still salty that their management sold Kroos, Modric is highly regarded all around the world.
Or it is just you making the stupid and superficial arguments you are known for. So do whatever you like, I still won't bother getting into a discussion with you since I simply can't take you seriously and have witnessed how that worked out for people who tried to reason with you.
I'm really into football with all his depths, tactical developments and so on, I spent hours reading spielverlagerung.de and Zonal Marking, love watching tactical break downs on player movements on YouTube etc., do you have any idea how boring it is to read the superficial nonsense you are posting? It is just tiring. Believe me, you really have no clue and are extremely biased on top of it. That's really a bad combination. As I said, I may disagree with Peyroteo but at least I can have proper discussions with him since he knows what he's talking about and understands more than just cheap goal stats posted within his social media filter bubble of Ronaldo fan pages.
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