You mean like Ronaldo choked against Juve until ref invented a pen?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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While cherry-picking his games, he has played 154 minutes in La Liga this month and doesn't even travel for the away games,saving his energy to be 100% in games like this.
We'll get called a lot of things for saying this, but if you have one of the best paid players in the world to just focus on 5 games from March to May, you'd expect a lot more even if he doesn't manage to score every game.
And the irony is, Ronaldo flopping earlier in the season is the reason Real Madrid are not fighting for La Liga so he is able to cherry-pick his games to stay fresh for Champion's League. So he's getting praised for "downing tools" earlier in the season which to me should be unacceptable, but football fans have short memories.
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How was that anything but a solid penalty?
Yes, if you completely ignore how the game of football works, what the word possession means or how to determine how good a player is then passes and dribbles that doesn't lead to goals won't matter.
Ask Dembele if his dribble against Pogba at the weekend didn't matter. Or Rafinha's pass last night. Being able to keep possession in certain situations is crucial, even if the result of it is just that the other team doesn't get the ball.
You're obviously deluded.
Says the laughing stock on the forum who's consumed with Messi in a way no husband has ever been consumed with this wife. Yeah, err....okay.
But unfortunately, it's more likely the latter. You have to stop yourself from laughing while reading some of the tripe for these fanboys.
Please quote me where I gave Ronaldo credit for the goal, thanks.I’m saying his presence + fake attempt to strike the ball / control it was a factor to why Marcelo was able to get a shot off; takes quite the awareness to back off in a split second like that and if you think Ronaldo wouldn’t control that you’ve clearly never seen him on a regular basis.
If it weren’t for that (Bayern defenders focused on him), they’d have cleared the ball on the cross or at least had someone on Marcelo instead of him being as open and unmarked as he was. Again, these are facts and how the goal unfolded. I don’t get why there’s a wummimg or troll label being thrown around. Fact of the matter is I simply stated the build up to the goal and Ronaldo’s part in it which left the defenders flat footed but clearly some are too delusional to even acknowledge that - nothing complicated albeit but rather common sense.
If you still deny that sequence/occurrence, then I don’t have much else to say. That’s like saying when the Bayern players go into meeting to analyze the match and the manager/staff ask the players why they stopped moving on the goal, they’re all going to say it was just bad defending on all of their parts simultaneously? Yea, didn’t think so. Common sense says they’ll say they thought Ronaldo would strike the ball or control it down but he let it roll instead which caught them off guard. Nothing more, nothing less. That’s all I said, a simple observation ffs lol
“ Troll! That never happened! “
Ok then
Not really. Laughing stock is the Messi homers who are so obsessed that they are trying to hate on Ronaldo having been the best player in the world the past few years and still on top for finally not scoring in the CL in over a year in a game where his team won at Allianz and have the advantage heading home.
It’s funny because everyone else realizes but them yet they act like they hold the moral high ground for some reason truth be told
Not really. Laughing stock is the Messi homers who are so obsessed that they are trying to hate on Ronaldo having been the best player in the world the past few years and still on top for finally not scoring in the CL in over a year in a game where his team won at Allianz and have the advantage heading home.
It’s funny because everyone else realizes but them yet they act like they hold the moral high ground for some reason truth be told
You bumped this thread, typing he that your idol "did a Messi". Not the other way around. You then spent the next half an hour trying to convince everyone that Ronaldo played a decisive role in a goal that had nothing to do with him, as part of a worse performance than anything we've seen from Messi in the Champions League since the latter developed into a top star.
The last sentence is non-sequitar. Everyone realizes that Madrid without Ronaldo is a much better team and that his team can beat Bayern away while he produces one of the worst performances of his career. That wouldn't be true of Messi.
In any case, if typing the tripe you did helps you sleep better, by all means do carry on.
> my reply to PuyolC, you should give it a read. Actually thinking that the Bayern defenders all froze and had defensive brain farts out of the blue simultaneously or something caused that. Hmmm...
> that’s your opinion. Madrid got outplayed and were lucky to come out leading. Bayern should have scored an easy 3-4 goals and then some. That’s on Bayern, not this dumb narrative about Ronaldo’s teammates getting the W because they were shaky as well - it was on Bayern for not converting. Similarly Barca/Messi were crap but their opponents finished/scored so whatever you’re saying doesn’t hold much merit or mean much.
And for the hundredth time, this excuse Messi plays for some MLS calibre side...
Messi also has the higher scoring supporting cast/players on Barca compared to Ronaldo on Madrid. Look at each clubs leading goal scorers...Messi has players who score more than Ronaldo’s teammates do on Madrid but go on and make such a ludicrous statement if it means you keep floating in your boat.
^Ronaldo has scored over 50% of his teams goals and is well ahead of anyone on a team that’s scored over 20 goals (larger sample size). Yet Messi homers have the audacity to spew out that it’s more likely Madrid win when Ronaldo doesn’t score compared to Messi not scoring because CR7’s team relies less on him compared to Messi. Yea, that’s cute. Deluded opinion, meet facts.
I wouldn't even call that a stinker tbh, the difference between Ronaldo dominating a game and disappearing is scoring a goal these days. If his handball didn't get called then there would be a barrage of people saying GOAT and posting the updated stats from twitter, just like they did when Ronaldo scored a his off-side tap-ins vs. Bayern last season.
lol at @VancouverUtdFan
lol at @VancouverUtdFan
PSG 4-0 Barcelona. His highlight of the game was getting nutmegged by Rabiot.
@VancouverUtdFan, stick to ice hockey, man.
Fan of the LVG school of possession for the sake of possession?
Another typical Messi cult follower, nothing to say, out with the playground insults. I’ll stick to reality but thanks
Ronaldo, just like the other Madrid forwards yesterday, had no ball.
He was waiting for balls from counters that rarely came to him, and in this team going back to midfield it's not what he's ordered to do.
But to be fair, he was still helpful in defensive free kicks and corner, I remember at least one corner where he cleared the ball.
That doesn't make it a good game for course.
He was waiting for balls from counters that rarely came to him, and in this team going back to midfield it's not what he's ordered to do.
But to be fair, he was still helpful in defensive free kicks and corner, I remember at least one corner where he cleared the ball.
That doesn't make it a good game for course.
No, it's the school of understanding how football actually works and what can happen if you can successfully dribble or pass vs if you can't. Surely you get why it's a good thing to keep the ball within the team instead of losing it, even if it doesn't directly lead to your team scoring?
There are tons of reasons why being a great passer and dribbler are qualities that helps your team win, and many of them have nothing to do with scoring goals. Otherwise you would have guys like Scholes, Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta being referred to as completely useless instead of some of the greatest footballers ever.
Even if the only result of keeping possession is that the other team won't get the ball, it can still be the difference between winning or losing. If you still don't believe that, just take a look at Dembele's dribble vs Pogba at the weekend and Rafinha's pass last night.
Football is a simple game, the aim is to score more than the opposition. Everything done on the pitch is ONLY useful if it helps achieve that aim.
That's exactly the LVG school of possession for the sake of possession.
Passing and dribbling can often help in the creation of goals, but is only useful when that happens. Denilson wasn't considered a great footballer despite his brilliant dribbling because it leads nowhere most of the time.
Football isn't a simple game, especially when compared to most other sports, you just have a simple understanding of it.
Do elaborate on what the aim is, other than "score more than the opposition"?
What you fail to take in to account is that in order to score more than the opposition, you also have to deny them the opportunity to do so.If you are 1-0 up and there's 5 minutes to go, it's a very important skill to have someone that can dribble the ball in such a way that the opponent are unable to disposes them. In this scenario, said dribble is not aimed at scoring a goal, yet still works to your listed goal of scoring more than the opposition. Therefor your statement that a dribble is only useful when it leads to a goal is wrong, plain and simple.
So when Messi plays the worst game of his career his team gets hammered 4 nil - Ronaldo's team still manages to win at Munich. It's a small sample size so might have been a coincidence.
Well, actually, if you rely on dribbling to kill time (in those 5 minutes in your example), there are much better ways to see out a game. Jose' A380 for example.
Not the point. My point is that you claimed dribbling is only useful when it sets up a goal, which is not true. Nothing more nothing less
I'm point out that it's not very useful for seeing out leads.Not the point. My point is that you claimed dribbling is only useful when it sets up a goal, which is not true. Nothing more nothing less
You could also try to have your goalkeeper dribble up the field. It won't turn out well.
The state of Messi fanboys. They have no shame anymore!
Passing and dribbling are key things that you can do on the pitch to take the ball further away from your goal even if you don't score, something that makes it harder for the other team to score, which finally helps you achieve that "score more than the opposition" fundamental you rightly mention.
You pass the ball because your rival can't score without touching the ball
You driblle forward 90% of the time, and the better you are at dribbling, more players will have to defend you, making the enemy attack weaker
As you get better at both things, you go from aimlessly passing the ball around between CB's and Midfield (what you call LVG school) with the danger it takes, to do it between midfielders and, best case scenario (Pep's Barça for example) between midfielders and forwards, demanding of the other team to bring extra defenders and to have 70 metres of space between where they recover the ball and scoring and with a limited amount of attacking players.
And that role is the key thing why we, the Messi-band, and many others believe he's better than Ronaldo, titles and seasons are decided on how good that part of the team is, you need guys like Leo, Iniesta, Xavi, Modric, Kroos, Silva, KDB, Pirlo, Pjanic, James, Thiago, Hazard, Verratti and so on to have some kind of consistency in your results at the long term, you can try to blow past midfield like Klopp does, you can taste success that way too, and maybe if you put Ronaldo in this Liverpool side he'd still score for fun, but there's a reason why teams with great players at 4,8 and 10 positions are the ones touted as favourites for everything from September to April.
Scoring is obviusly a needed skill, and that also affects the game in many ways even if you don't actually score but remanin a threat for the other team, but it's just the ceiling of the house.
I'm point out that it's not very useful for seeing out leads.
You could also try to have your goalkeeper dribble up the field. It won't turn out well.
You're going with the dribbling to see out a game theory too?
The aim is to score more than the opposition, you just have a very simple understanding on how that occurs.
Ronaldo in his first three years before his breakout season was scoring and assisting once every 2.74 games. He didn't have great end product but he could carry the ball up the pitch, he could take players on and he could put dangerous balls into the box. Even though this directly lead to goals only once every three games, SAF opted to stick with Ronaldo and play him, why? Because even if Ronaldo dribbled up the pitch only to get fouled, took on his man only to get a corner or put in a dangerous ball only for the striker to miss it; it alleviated pressure, gained an advantage and gave the crowd and united some momentum. Are you saying he was useless back then? His best and only real asset back then was dribbling but I bet that was when he became your favourite player.
I doubt you've ever actually played football, momentum/confidence counts for so much and the tiniest thing can cause it.
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Madrid got hammered as well, Bayern should have scored 2 or 3 more goals.
Bayern missing a bunch of clear chances clearly means that Messi is better than Ronaldo...
You're going with the dribbling to see out a game theory too?
Let's have another try. Pressing usually works this way: You try to isolate a player from his team mates so that he has no passing options and you can win the ball of him. It may occur in different areas of the pitch (high pressing, low pressing, sometimes you purposely want to isolate a weak player, sometimes a strong) but the general concept always remains the same. So, if you get maneuvered in such a situation as a player, what will help you? Your dribbling skills, of course. That's wht made Xavi and Iniesta such great midfielders. If they had no passing options and it looked like the opponent would get the ball, they still could beat one or two opponents to keep possession. Often, this also leads to numerical superiority, transitions and therefore creates chances. But it also prevents your opponents from winning the ball in dangerous areas and starting counters (see exemplarily Rafinha's possession loss that lead to Asensio's goal yesterday). This means you can play more risky and higher up the pitch which helps you creating goals. Have you seen games where teams tried to press prime Barca, Bayern or Spain? Their approaches silted up time and time again because their players were so pressing-resistant (through pasing and dribbling) and this wears your opponents out.
And besides that, even offensive dribblings that don't lead to goals cause pressure on the opponent, mental exhaustion etc. It also leads to more man marking of good dribblers, creating more space for their team mates. If we are at a point where cancelling an out of reach overhead kick and thereby distracting defenders already counts as contribution then this has to be mentioned, too.
People say football is no science. Well, it is.
LOL at this thread with us trying to explain the basic principles of football to Cal.
It's like trying to explain democracy to a labrador.
I bet when the postman comes Cal runs to the door and barks GOALS through the letter box.
It's like trying to explain democracy to a labrador.
I bet when the postman comes Cal runs to the door and barks GOALS through the letter box.
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How about maintain a better shape to your team so that you don't get your single player cornered into such a position in the first place?
Also, you seem to be still of the mindset that possession is always good?
More playground insults.
If you have nothing to add, why don't you just go wank over your Messi poster?
That's pretty naive. Of course you get cornered at some point because not evey pass is inch perfect and not every decision correct. And sometimes spaces are simply very tight and dribbling is the best option to free yourself. It is also about transitional moments. You win the ball back from your opponent but the space is tight. You have it at your feet but your team doesn't really control the ball since it looks like it will be gone in a few milliseconds. Now what you do? Shoot it outside or in the opposition half? Or will you find an option to regain controlled possession? Again, dribbling and superb passing makes the difference. And by the way, they go hand in hand. Often a good pass is only possible because you created the space and lane yourself through a quick movement with the ball (a.k.a. dribbling).
And no, possession is not always good. You have van Gaal-at-Manchester-United-type possession and you have Guardiola-at-Barca-type possession as the extremes. There is a reason why Guardiola always demands the best players and it is because he needs "top top quality" as he would describe it to play his system. If you are such a good passer that the most difficult options seem natural to you and you can free yourself through dribbling out of tight spaces then you can play a completely different approach. It is a game changer, simple as that.
Barcelona under Guardiola is renowned as the best team in history, Real Madrid currently is not that far behind - how many passes do they play during a game? And how many of them lead to goals? It's often the small moments that decide games. Marcelo, Kroos, Isco, Modric finding solutions in tight spaces. That's football nowadays. Every tactical revolution in the past 10 years was about crowding the midfield in order to creating dominance in the tight spaces and beetween the lines.
You're going with the dribbling to see out a game theory too?
Dribbling is one of the skills you can use to keep the ball away from your rivals, and if you wrap dribbling with a good first touch, passing and vision, you become a better player to help your team keep posession or to attack looking for a goal.
Dribbling in itself is not the game changer, there's a lot of players that could dribble defenders for days and do nothing with it, when you get a player like Iniesta or Leo, and put dribbling as one of their best skills, that's the game changer.
You get someone like Messi and his threatening vision, passing+dribbling and that's the difference between Argentina facing a team with two DM + a support midfielder, or a single DM and two wingers. You think Mascherano could be a starter CB in any other top team in the world if it wasn't for guys like Iniesta and Messi having the skills to bring the ball up the field so much that Masche's theorical position was more of a tackling DM than a CB?.
What? Denilson rings a bell? or Pirlo and the likes on the other extreme?
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