Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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And this represents why those who believe Messi to be the better footballer are wrong.

This sport isn't decided by "wows", it's decided by goals. If you want "wows", Messi is the clear winner.

But if you want to win a football game. Cristiano Ronaldo is the best choice. Always.

Remember folks, achievement lives in history. Talent does not.

I'm not so sure, it was a 15% swing in Ronaldo's favour on the poll after the bicycle kick, if it was just a tap in that wouldn't have happened. Obviously the redcafe poll is the true arbiter of how greatness should be measured.
 
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I'm not so sure, it was a 15% swing in Ronaldo's favour on the poll after the bicycle kick, if it was just a tap in that wouldn't have happened. Obviously the redcafe poll is the true arbitor of how greatness should be measured.

The poll doesn’t give people the option to vote for messi so it’s pointless.
 
Yeah that would be understandable if he didn’t have the individual records and individual/team trophies. It’s not like anyone will ever look back on what he’s done and not think he’s one of if not the greatest ever.

This is the defensiveness from Messi fans that is prompted when they hear "Ronaldo > Messi".

Messi is the most talented footballer this world will ever see. But unfortunately for Messi, personality extends beyond football.

It's why Ronaldo didn't stop believing when Messi won his 4th Ballon.

Ronaldo is a champion in a way this sport has never seen or will ever see.

It's why he's led 3 separate teams to the top of Europe. And it's why Messi's peak came during the Great Spain team of 2008-2012.
Because he needed them to get there.

Throw both of them in their best possible environments, Messi edges it. In every other case, Ronaldo does. It's why he wins EVERYWHERE and ALWAYS.
It's why he dominates the most difficult competition in this sport's history.

And unfortunately for Messi, prime Xavi, Iniesta, and all those that gave him that 'perfect environment' aren't coming back. Ever.
 
What??? Last year vs Napoli he created about the same number of chances as Messi did in the City game for example and it's nowhere even close to being one of his best games.

If Messi doesn't nutmeg anyone, creates 1 or 2 less chances but instead scored the 2 big chances he missed would it have been a better or a worse game for him?

Even though I vowed to not argue with you about this subject after the whole heatmap/messi playing deep debacle, I decided to check it out - hope I picked the right one;



vs.



Ronaldo had a great game and would have had plenty of assists were it not for his teammates but I really don't think it's a better performance than the Messi one and I'll be surprised if anyone else agrees with you.
 
Top 20 LaLiga players with the biggest participation in creating goals by assists + pre-assists per 90 minutes:


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Weird, I didn't know there were so many players better than Ronaldo. I always knew Januzaj had the potential..
 
Even though I vowed to not argue with you about this subject after the whole heatmap/messi playing deep debacle, I decided to check it out - hope I picked the right one;



vs.



Ronaldo had a great game and should have had plenty of assists were it not for his teammates but I really don't think it's a better performance than the Messi one and I'll be surprised if anyone else agrees with you.


It's not better but it's pretty similar which is why I mentioned it. It's far from being one of his best games too, the big difference is Messi's performance is seen with a lot of romanticism by fans while Ronaldo's isn't.
 
I'm not so sure, it was a 15% swing in Ronaldo's favour on the poll after the bicycle kick, if it was just a tap in that wouldn't have happened. Obviously the redcafe poll is the true arbitor of how greatness should be measured.
I think it was more accumulation of things, starting from him leading Real to defend UCL, euro performances, equalling Messi in Ballon D'Or and now this. More like the tipping point.

Personally, always felt that Messi was better and the debate for me got opened last summer. Now, it is very close for me, maybe Ronaldo even edging it.
 
This is such an obtuse argument that it's honestly not worth a reply. This is the amazing thing about the internet - you can be as stupid as you want with zero accountability.

Just to re-iterate, by the same framework, a team that wins by 1 goal is worse than a team that won by 2 goals.. and so on. Even if you claim that holds true if the opponent is a constant, it shows a baffling lack of understanding of how football works. You've wasted 15 years watching football. 15 years.
Compare the teams both played in their CL winning run, is there much difference in terms of quality?
 
Probably because of the sheer ignorance of people ignoring it whilst trying to make up some weird view of Ronaldo having better Champions League games, he hasn't. His best performances were in his early Madrid career/late Utd career. As he's become more of a poacher his scoring records have become the stuff of legends, his performances outside of it have regressed massively. In the two ties Vs Juve outside of the goals (one a worldie), he was being questioned for being so quiet. Modric, Marcelo and co cover it up quite well.

Fact is - Ronaldo is a finisher, Messi is a creator who just so happens to contribute as many goals as Ronaldo can. One is defined by how many shots he puts in the back of the net, the other isn't. It's beyond tedious how it circles back to all the goals Ronaldo has scored in knockout games. You'd think he were doing a Messi Vs Madrid every match the way some harp on here. Tedious.
There we go again with the Messi brigade, the absolute certainty in their opinion. It's just the same as cults.

Also, if you keep repeating a lie, that does not make it true.
 
And this represents why those who believe Messi to be the better footballer are wrong.

This sport isn't decided by "wows", it's decided by goals. If you want "wows", Messi is the clear winner.

But if you want to win a football game. Cristiano Ronaldo is the best choice. Always.

Remember folks, achievement lives in history. Talent does not.
I'm not so sure, it was a 15% swing in Ronaldo's favour on the poll after the bicycle kick, if it was just a tap in that wouldn't have happened. Obviously the redcafe poll is the true arbitor of how greatness should be measured.
Nah man it's that no lifer obsessed with CR creating alt accounts.
 
Football enjoyment for me is about moments that make you put your hands on your head and say “wow”

Ronaldo’s overhead kick is the only time he’s done that to me in recent years, Messi does it almost every game.
You're entitled to that opinion.
 
The actual ONLY thing to football is scoring goals. Literally every aspect of the game is directed toward a goal being scored. Wanna know why? Because football is a game. And games are played to be WON. And Ronaldo knows that better than anyone. And many, including yourself, seem to have evidently forgotten that.

He'll win this debate by the time both hang up their boots. Because Ronaldo is a winner in a way that transcends his profession. He is a UNIVERSAL symbol for how people should approach life. And he'll be rewarded for that when all is said and done.
Müller won the debate against Beckenbauer and Cruyff thanks.
 
So no videos, I thought so. My examples aren't centred around dribbling, they aren't dribbling compilations, they are two games from the CL campaigns we were comparing. Funnily they work as a perfect macrocosm of the Ronaldo vs. Messi debate; Ronaldo gets his 3 goals without being impressive and Messi gets none but is, except Messi usually scores.

You say it's personal bias but the only bias I have is that I love the way Messi plays football, I didn't say Ronaldo has never played as well as Messi did in that City game for a fact, I just suspected and I'd happily be proven wrong as I love watching great players, but so far no one has offered any example yet, including you.
Fixed
 

Pretty damning stat considering the sole argument in this thread for Ronaldo is how great his statistics are, and he doesn't even make that list - Kroos, Benzema, Asenio, Isco, Modric and Vasquez do. After Messi? Just Coutinho, who joined in January.

Messi turns 31 in a couple months time, suggest those constantly slagging him off try and enjoy him whilst you can, you'll regret it in years to come.
 
Messi's performance against Bayern and Man City in the CL are much better than anything Ronaldo has done. Those masterclasses will be talked about for years.
 
Messi's performance against Bayern and Man City in the CL are much better than anything Ronaldo has done. Those masterclasses will be talked about for years.
:lol: Talked about for years? :lol:

If he keeps losing in the QF, you're damn right, cos that's all the Messi brigade can do, reminisce about 14/15.
 
I already said both the Bayern and AM performances by Ronaldo are IMO better.

After watching back on those vids? Fair enough, I mean I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion and I doubt many will but we can agree to disagree. I know Ronaldo is your favourite.
 
Those tournaments Ronaldo missed games out for Portugal or played with one knee, because he tried giving his all from start to finish all season playing against Getafes, Eibars, etc. and other clubs not worth expending energy/his body on. Yeah, that's gone and now you got him choosing when he wants to score.

And this time he will be as fresh as he wants for the World Cup.

If you think he doesn't plan to give this tournament his absolute all, you haven't been paying attention the past few years, Never mind his career. If he gets another knee injury in the final this time, he will not leave that field. He will die on it. No Game will matter after this World Cup for his legacy and he has money that will sustain his family for generations beyond the eye can see, with or without playing.

It's his last shot to elevate what he's already accomplished and his only shot at the throne as the King of Football. And he'll do anything he can to attain it. Because its his nature. Because he shows this dominion nature in the Champions League, the most difficult competition in the sport's history.

And that level of impact he uses in the Champions League is all he’ll need for the World Cup. But he's going to bring more. This tournament will be Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak. Where he will refine the last bit of consciousness he needs to end up playing a game of football only he knows exists. And he can let the rest of the World laugh their final laughs, for they had decided long before Cristiano could show them, that he will never be better than Messi. And know he will have the last laugh. That he’s been the one laughing back at the world for years, even if he or they did not know it, and that Portugal's national anthem will be playing in Moscow on July 15.

Ronaldo captains Portugal to their first title while Messi can't even win an inferior competition like the Copa America. Twice. And he already lost a World Cup final. It’s not in the cards for him. Not by chance, but by destiny. It’s why he saved Portugal from going out against Hungary at Euro 2016 with two great goals and a great assist. Who scored the all-important first goal in the semi-final that led to Portugal's second final and first tournament win? Who scored the first all-important goal in the semi-final that led to Portugal's first final ever when he was 19? Who was voted by every publication the best Portuguese player (and by some, on the entire field) in his country's second only World Cup semi-final in 2006? In a team that had Figo, Deco. etc. against Zidane's France? Who, in some of the national team’s worst days, had their team require him to single-handedly even drag them to the 2014 World Cup? The answer to all the above is Cristiano Ronaldo.

And unlike that 2006 World Cup, he’s the leader now. He is the essence of the team and at the peak of his scoring ability. And Portugal has its best generation of youth ever (many already with the experience of winning a European Championship, including a good number that played a pivotal part). The amount of Portuguese talent spattered around top-level clubs is proof of this. And that means that this is the only chance Portugal has to ever win the World Cup, because a combination of Cristiano Ronaldo and youth talent will never happen again. Because there will never be another Cristiano Ronaldo. For Portugal. Or all football.

The pieces are good enough for Portugal to win a World Cup where there is no Great Spain or any team of comparable quality.

This World Cup will be an open competition.

And Ronaldo will take advantage of this. Like he ALWAYS does.
Not sure if serious
 
What's your obsession with YouTube highlights videos? It's embarrassing! :lol::lol:

Because strangely enough watching them actually play football is usually the best way to judge a player - I reckon some of the people who favour Ronaldo watch football on an abacus.
 
What's your obsession with YouTube highlights videos? It's embarrassing! :lol::lol:

It's not highlights its the players time on the ball during the game, quick and easy to judge a player on a game by game basis. The most appropriate measure if you are going to judge their performances.
 
It's not highlights its the players time on the ball during the game, quick and easy to judge a player on a game by game basis. The most appropriate measure if you are going to judge their performances.

"When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average. So, the most important thing is : what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines whether you’re a good player or not." - Johan Cruyff

I just couldn't waste the opportunity to quote Cruyff to a Barcelona fan :wenger:
 
"When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average. So, the most important thing is : what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines whether you’re a good player or not." - Johan Cruyff

I just couldn't waste the opportunity to quote Cruyff to a Barcelona fan :wenger:

Its easy I can tell you that, Messi walks around and Ronaldo gesticulates wildly at his team mates to give him the ball.
 
"When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average. So, the most important thing is : what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball. That is what determines whether you’re a good player or not." - Johan Cruyff

I just couldn't waste the opportunity to quote Cruyff to a Barcelona fan :wenger:

True. But it isn't like Messi is inferior in this aspect. Movement off the ball doesn't occur solely in the final third. Messi positions himself brillantly between the lines and has a very good timing with his runs. Exemplarily this iconic clasico goal after which he presented his shirt to the Real fans. He started into the "back space" (not really sure how you call it in English) at the perfect moment. One twos also require off the ball movement. Or him dropping into the midfield as a false nine.

Xavi exemplarily emphasizes how brillant Messi is in positioning himself. You cannot play tiki taka on the level they did without being extremely good off the ball, too.
 
True. But it isn't like Messi is inferior in this aspect. Movement off the ball doesn't occur solely in the final third. Messi positions himself brillantly between the lines and has a very good timing with his runs. Exemplarily this iconic clasico goal after which he presented his shirt to the Real fans. He started into the "back space" (not really sure how you call it in English) at the perfect moment. One twos also require off the ball movement. Or him dropping into the midfield as a false nine.

Xavi exemplarily emphasizes how brillant Messi is in positioning himself. You cannot play tiki taka on the level they did without being extremely good off the ball, too.

It's not even a contest on who's the most dangerous off the ball between the two. As ridiculous as someone arguing Ronaldo's the better dribbler.
 
I would be interested to know how many times messi has pre assisted his own goal. I.e. dribbled, passed it and then got the ball back and finished it.
 
There we go again with the Messi brigade, the absolute certainty in their opinion. It's just the same as cults.

Also, if you keep repeating a lie, that does not make it true.
You've got some nerve given the number of laborious posts you've contributed to in this thread, and cut it with the fecking 'Messi brigade/cult' bollox, it's not funny or clever.

Messi IS a better footballer than Ronaldo. All the stats and figures mentioned here just open up a can of worms on every past great and their legacy in the all time great lists, the sole reason this shitfest of a debate returned is because of Real Madrid's dominance recently in Europe with Ronaldo hammering home goals galore along the way.

You can argue all you like whether Ronaldo is a greater player than Messi, but he most certainly isn't a better footballer. It's an absolute travesty that this is still a debate. An opinion only goes so far before it becomes just flat out wrong, and this is one of those times.
 
You've got some nerve given the number of laborious posts you've contributed to in this thread, and cut it with the fecking 'Messi brigade/cult' bollox, it's not funny or clever.

Messi IS a better footballer than Ronaldo. All the stats and figures mentioned here just open up a can of worms on every past great and their legacy in the all time great lists, the sole reason this shitfest of a debate returned is because of Real Madrid's dominance recently in Europe with Ronaldo hammering home goals galore along the way.

You can argue all you like whether Ronaldo is a greater player than Messi, but he most certainly isn't a better footballer. It's an absolute travesty that this is still a debate. An opinion only goes so far before it becomes just flat out wrong, and this is one of those times.
It’s not supposed to be funny at all, I find it quite sad that you lot believe so strongly in something clearly debatable (most polls are split 60-40 or so) with so much certainty you behave like a cult member or a religious fanatic.

Messi’s perceived as being a better player a few years ago precisely because Barca’s dominance. For you to just switch it round nowadays with Real dominating and Ronaldo starring is just hilarious.
 
It's not even a contest on who's the most dangerous off the ball between the two. As ridiculous as someone arguing Ronaldo's the better dribbler.

Cruyff would disagree, I guess. Ronaldo is better in the box off the ball and makes brillant runs in the space behind defenders but I am pretty sure that this is only part of what Cruyff meant. When you hear Xavi and Guardiola talking, they emphasize an midfield play even in this regard and here it isn't even a question who positions himself better. Messi's brillant in reading the game, building triangles, positioning between the lines, "pass and run" etc. All parts of his off the ball game.
 
Cruyff would disagree, I guess. Ronaldo is better in the box off the ball and makes brillant runs in the space behind defenders but I am pretty sure that this is only part of what Cruyff meant. When you hear Xavi and Guardiola talking, they emphasize an midfield play even in this regard and here it isn't even a question who positions himself better. Messi's brillant in reading the game, building triangles, positioning between the lines, "pass and run" etc. All parts of his off the ball game.

Then he does not understand football and no, that was not what he meant. Building triangles, positioning between the lines, etc. is a nice way of saying he stands around for 99% for the match while the greatest possession team in history keeps the ball. Like covering a turd with gold.

Comparing Ronaldo and Messi off the ball is as ridiculous as comparing them on the ball, one is clearly better than the other. Not saying Messi's bad off the ball and Ronaldo's bad on the ball, just that they're worse than eachother at those things respectively. You thinking Messi is not inferior in that aspect is ridiculous, it's like me arguing Ronaldo's a better dribbler than Messi.
 
Does conversion rate not matter anymore by the way? This season Ronaldo takes less shots per goal, after 5 months of a lot of people here loving that stat now it seems like noone cares about it anymore. What happened to this crap?

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Does conversion rate not matter anymore by the way? This season Ronaldo takes less shots per goal, after 5 months of a lot of people here loving that stat now it seems like noone cares about it anymore. What happened to this crap?

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That can't be right surely? Ronaldo only scores one in every fifty shots? Jesus.
 
That can't be right surely? Ronaldo only scores one in every fifty shots? Jesus.

Think it was at the point where he had 1 or 2 goals in the league so they of course ignored other competitions and did the math.

Seemed like a lot of people thought it was a great stat at the time.
 
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