Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

At the end of the day, Messi went to brazil with a very mundane team, scored four very important goals, won four MVP, the golden boot without the help of the other allegedly argentinian football gods, like Higuain, Di María and Aguero

in my book that's quite an accomplishment, and proves that he can play excelently good without his barcelona team

you can say whatever you want about maradona, but the truth is that when maradona gave the ball to burruchaga, he scores, is not messi's fault that the recievers if his passes didnt score
 
Andy_Cole said:
Messi didn't score in the knock out stages. Definitely the biggest disappointment of the World Cup. I was practically just waiting for him to light up the final with some brilliance but he was mostly quiet. Di Maria was Argentina's best player and he missed the last two games.
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He was awful against the Swiss bedsides the goal. He kept on going though.
 
steve9 said:
From a German POV: Di Maria scared me more than Messi. I was glad he didn't play tonight.
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I can understand that but that's more a fear of a peak Di María than recognition of a great World Cup, surely? I'm a big fan of Di María but I thought he was really poor overall, mostly because he was uncharacteristically selfish to the point that he was disrupting Argentina's own attacking play.
 
sammyvine said:
I don't know because everybody is different. I do agree that some people are better leaders than others and you can't really say without knowing the person and being around them.
Tim Duncan for example is one of the quietest most boring superstars in the history of sport and basketball but he is probably one of the best leaders ever so my point is looks and how you come across are not always accurate.
From what I have seen though Messi doesn't strike me as an vocal captain but then again if Argentina had won today, everything would be so different and he would be called a great leader. I think the media tend to favour those who are vocal like Keano rather than quiet players who don't show that much emotion

It depends what you call a 'leader'. What makes you think he has 'no leader skills?
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No leader skills is easily explained -- in this case, at least. If you are Messi, the best player of the planet, and you cannot lift your team to the occasion, while you yourself have a very quiet game at the biggest stage on earth which comes back only once in four years: Then you are not a leader.

But if you make the unlikely best out of a 38 years old body and lift your team to a title, then you are Tim Duncan, and a leader by example.
 
His World Cup was actually a bit similar to Van Persie on an individual level. Had a great group stage then faded. Didn't score in knock outs and only showed moments of his talent.
 
steve9 said:
No leader skills is easily explained -- in this case, at least. If you are Messi, the best player of the planet, and you cannot lift your team to the occasion, while you yourself have a very quiet game at the biggest stage on earth which comes back only once in four years: Then you are not a leader.

But if you make the unlikely best out of a 38 years old body and lift your team to a title, then you are Tim Duncan, and a leader by example.
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So everybody that loses has no leader skills?
They lost in extra time against a very good german side who were many peoples pick as the tournament winners. Not many expected Argentina to win in all honesy and especially without Aguero and Di Maria. The best team won in the end.

I am not trying to say Messi was the best player on the pitch or deserved to win....far from it. I think his was well below his best but lets put things into perspective here. On paper this wasn't a freak result at all.
 
marcosdeto said:
At the end of the day, Messi went to brazil with a very mundane team, scored four very important goals, won four MVP, the golden boot without the help of the other allegedly argentinian football gods, like Higuain, Di María and Aguero

in my book that's quite an accomplishment, and proves that he can play excelently good without his barcelona team

you can say whatever you want about maradona, but the truth is that when maradona gave the ball to burruchaga, he scores, is not messi's fault that the recievers if his passes didnt score
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Fair comment

An aside:

Look at Maradona with Napoli v Messi with Barca

Two very different situations
 
Not related to the football but I read tonight that he has autism? I googled it but there doesn't seem to be a concrete source, does anyone know if it's true?
 
Baxter said:
Not related to the football but I read tonight that he has autism? I googled it but there doesn't seem to be a concrete source, does anyone know it's true?
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Pops up now and again but no. Well, there's no confirmation of it anyway so depends whether you're partial to rumours...
 
sammyvine said:
So everybody that loses has no leader skills?
They lost in extra time against a very good german side who were many peoples pick as the tournament winners. Not many expected Argentina to win in all honesy and especially without Aguero and Di Maria. The best team won in the end.

I am not trying to say Messi was the best player on the pitch or deserved to win....far from it. I think his was well below his best but lets put things into perspective here. On paper this wasn't a freak result at all.
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I did say he is the best player on the planet at the moment. Didn't I? But he is no leader. And no Maradona, since Maradona was able to create much more with mediocre players alongside him.

Maradona went to Napoli and turned a sub-mediocre club into a big club. Do you think Messi could do the same?

And by the way: I'm neither Argentinian nor a fan of Argentinia. But I believe I can sense greatness.
 
steve9 said:
I did say he is the best player on the planet at the moment. Didn't I? But he is no leader. And no Maradona, since Maradona was able to create much more with mediocre players alongside him.

Maradona went to Napoli and turned a sub-mediocre club into a big club. Do you think Messi could do the same?

And by the way: I'm neither Argentinian nor a fan of Argentinia. But I believe I can sense greatness.
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I guess we will never know the answer to that question.
 
The best team won this year. That was the issue with Messi and Argentina (who did well to get so far) because their team is just not there. Aguero Higuain and Messi really had very little connection and at times were quite tough to watch. Mascherano Garay and Demichellis were the real stars for them. Messi's 4 goals were vital too but that lack of cohesion with their bigger names was a massive issue.
 
marcosdeto said:
uhu, not impressed by that at all, he won the first scudetto the year after Sampdoria won one, and one year before Hellas Verona won one

both of those teams had won only one scudetto in their history, at the same time maradona was wining with napoli
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No, it's not the same, because Hellas Verona has won it with Elkjaer, Briegel, Fana as part of their team, and no REAL adversaries. Sampdoria also had Vialli, Mancini, Mikhailitchenko, Katanec, Pagliuca.

I've seen those championships. Can you tell me the team of Napoli that won their first league?
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
The best team won this year. That was the issue with Messi and Argentina (who did well to get so far) because their team is just not there. Aguero Higuain and Messi really had very little connection and at times were quite tough to watch. Mascherano Garay and Demichellis were the real stars for them. Messi's 4 goals were vital too but that lack of cohesion with their bigger names was a massive issue.
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Aguero and Di Maria's injuries were a major problem. Aguero was the a top 3 forward in the world until January where he became a sick note. Di Maria obviously did not play in the final. Argentina were unlucky in that respect.
 
darwinism said:
No, it's not the same, because Hellas Verona has won it with Elkjaer, Briegel, Fana as part of their team, and no REAL adversaries. Sampdoria also had Vialli, Mancini, Mikhailitchenko, Katanec, Pagliuca.

I've seen those championships. Can you tell me the team of Napoli that won their first league?
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i've already did in other thread long time ago, i´m not going back to this argument

still, napoli´s two scudettos can´t compare with barcelona´s two champions leagues

or maradonas 16 goals in a tournamente, cant compete with messi scoring over 30 goals four straight seasons
 
marcosdeto said:
i've already did in other thread long time ago, i´m not going back to this argument

still, napoli´s two scudettos can´t compare with barcelona´s two champions leagues

or maradonas 16 goals in a tournamente, cant compete with messi scoring over 30 goals four straight seasons
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all the tricks can't be compared to Mexico 1986
 
sammyvine said:
Aguero and Di Maria's injuries were a major problem. Aguero was the a top 3 forward in the world until January where he became a sick note. Di Maria obviously did not play in the final. Argentina were unlucky in that respect.
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Very true but you have to judge them on what they produced. Tonight the World Cup winner was someone who wasn't particular consistent all season for Bayern and barely kicked a ball through the tournament. Germany are simply a better and more together group. The likes of Lavezzi, Palacio, Higuain and Aguero just didn't step up when it mattered.

Germany have a better pool of players though, so in that respect it is somewhat easier for them. I expected them to miss Reus but they made it work and players who aren't as good stepped up and came together as a team. That's just what I thought Argentina lacked, too much reliance on Messi.
 
marcosdeto said:
yes! teamwork! when Barcelona wins, is teamwork

when argentina reaches the final and doesnt beat germany, is messis fault

indeed!
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Messi is a perfect for the Barca team. Everything is around him - he's like the worlds best stick in a quality Ice Lolly.

With Argentina it's like watching the worlds best stick surrounded by peas.

It's not Messi's fault nor does it make him less of a player.

Just the previous player could do it on his own as a stick.
 
dinners85 said:
Messi is a perfect for the Barca team. Everything is around him - he's like the worlds best stick in a quality Ice Lolly.

With Argentina it's like watching the worlds best stick surrounded by peas.

It's not Messi's fault nor does it make him less of a player.

Just the previous player could do it on his own as a stick.
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maradona? he also had teams made around him -napoli and argentina in 1986- and when he didnt -barcelona- he failed
 
marcosdeto said:
maradona? he also had teams made around him -napoli and argentina in 1986- and when he didnt -barcelona- he failed
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Of course he had teams built around him. Same for Messi.

I mentioned Napoli above - nothing like the quality Barca have had around Messi but he dragged them up from pretty much nothing.

With the Mexico 86 era - Probably a worse Argentina team than this year and he pretty much won them the world cup.

That (as a Messi fan) given his age - I hoped for in this World Cup. My Daughter kept asking - which one is Messi - I kept having to point him out.

That said - I saw Maradona at OT in the 3:0 2nd leg and Robson owned him. I wondered what all the fuss was about.
 
Argentina 1986, beside Maradona, was truly ridiculous, I remember it quite well. If it wasn't for el Pibe d'Oro there was no way they could have gone so far, even winning the World Cup.

Maradona the greatest player of all I've seen, my humble opinion. Second, the fat Ronaldo.
 
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The footballing Gods are cruel indeed, that camera winking idiot Muller wins the world cup while the greatest player ever does not. Hopefully the Argentine FA revamp their system so they get a better team (Especially midfield) for WC 2018, Messi will only be 30/31 so he still has another shot at WC Glory.

Spain are going to put Germany back in their place at Euro 2016.......I hope :nervous:
 
dinners85 said:
Of course he had teams built around him. Same for Messi.

I mentioned Napoli above - nothing like the quality Barca have had around Messi but he dragged them up from pretty much nothing.

With Argentina 86 - Probably a worse team than this year and he pretty much won them the world cup.

That said - I saw Maradona at OT in the 3:0 2nd leg and Robson owned him. I wondered what all the fuss was about.
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not really, maradona was sorrounded by great players, the reason most of you don't know them is that they werent playing in europe, but at that time, that was the norm, very few argentinian players were in europe because of the "two foreign" rule
 
How much of a break will he get before he is back with Barca? He needs a big break, he looks absolutely shattered. Watching the game you could see he was trying to conserve his energy and then pick his moments but it just never came off.
 
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