Because there is a god, it would have been a travesty of justice had Australia got out of that with a draw, outplayed every single session.
MERGED - The 2010/2011 ASHES tour thread...all Ashes related chat here please!
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Because there is a god, it would have been a travesty of justice had Australia got out of that with a draw, outplayed every single session.
Just seen some pictures of the Adelaide oval right now, its literally underwater! seagulls all over the field lightning in the background, Aussies probably would only have had to bat another hour an half 2 hours tops to get a draw.
Shame.
Shame.
You mean the same Shane Warne thats been playing the IPL and still taking wickets regularly.... As for your first comment, arses handed to them
i'm sure the acknowledgment by English players of ball tampering kind of puts a dampener on that. Also, the two games that England won were the two that Glen McGrath didn't play in....... If you want to talk about arse kickings you don't get much bigger then the 06/07 series.You mean the same Shane Warne thats been playing the IPL and still taking wickets regularly.... As for your first comment, arses handed to them
Ahh so thats the excuse now, you lost because of ball tampering, dear me, even Warne himself freely admits you were outclassed in the 05 series, England were the better team throughout and deservedly won deal with it.
As for the IPL, come off it, your comparing a 20/20 throw about to the ashes
Warne bowls 4 overs max in those he actually said on commentary during this test thats about as much as he feels comfortable with these days, hes not in anything close to the condition to be able to bowl 25-30 overs an innings in a test match stop kidding yourself.Seriously? When did he last bowl a ball in anger?
Must 18 months or more surely.
And don't call me Shirley.
Ahh so thats the excuse now, you lost because of ball tampering, dear me, even Warne himself freely admits you were outclassed in the 05 series, England were the better team throughout and deservedly won deal with it.
As for the IPL, come off it, your comparing a 20/20 throw about to the ashes
Yes because England were the better team in the first or last tests? It was an evenly fought series neither side was better then the other and except for a McGrath injury, Australia would have more or less retained the Ashes. The difference was the seam bowling of either team. England bowled well and took wickets. Australian bowlers bowled like shit and got blasted around the park except for Warne and McGrath when fit.
Going by his weight loss Warne looks about 50%. Give him a strenuous 2 weeks of good weights training and fitness and he'd be atleast 75%
Desperate times call for desperate measures but this isn't as desperate as trying to get Glen McGrath or Justin Langer out of retirement. He's still an active bowler with half decent fitness and switched on cricketing brain.
It's not just his bowling but his leadership qualities as well.
Well given the alternatives I suppose I have heard sillier things. Could he last long enough to play a test though?
What about some other recent retirees?
McGill, McGrath, Langer, Hayden and Symonds? 
You were hanging on at Old trafford back in 05, you had Mcgrath and everyone else there in that one and you were hanging on for dear life, your guys were actually jumping in jubilation at drawing that test with us which summed up the whole series really, you were thoroughly outplayed at Edgbaston and but for a last wicket partnership the result would have been more conclusive, only a Warne inspired spell at the end of the trent bridge test made that close, go through the games and everyone of them bar Lords took the same pattern, England batting first scoring hundreds and the aussies hanging on for dear life and ultimately failing every time, England outplayed you in 4 tests of the 5, id say that was conclusive.
Another thing with this Warne talk is what does this say about the state of Australian cricket and spin bowling in general? the fact you'd rather go back to a bloke who's with all due respect over the hill and been retired from test cricket for years ahead of current options? what happens when you get in trouble again later down the line? do you start calling for Warne to come back again? maybe Mcgrath even? how about Merv Hughes?
I dont see it im sorry, Warnes fitness levels would take a hell of a lot more than 2 weeks in the gym to get him physically in shape for an ashes test match never mind 3! the next test starts in just over a week, hes never going to be in shape for that.
Why doesn't Dirk Nannes get a look in?
Is he injured?
Is he injured?
Brilliant from the 'Glishmen...I don't like the English much at cricket but I like them more than the Ozzies.
Doesn't play 1st class cricket and is close to 35.
Warne even now, would be light years better than all of the Australian Spinners and much better than most of spinners playing in world cricket. I would love to see him come back but I don't think he is gonna come back.
He wont come back, he dosnt need to and he wouldn't want to damage his career in doing so, he bowed out at the best and highest possible moment, a 5-0 ashes winner in his home country against England, if he comes out of retirement now and as id expect not do himself justice as hes not the shane warne of a few years ago hell be remembered for that guy who came back past his best via the calls of a team in crisis and quite possibly end an Ashes loser, why do it? what does he have to gain? if he takes a few wickets so what? thats what Warne always used to do, if he doesn't it wouldn't be right seeing a great of the game look half the man he used to be struggling on a cricket field, thats not Shane Warne.
How fking sweet was that - makes up for a fe of the drubbings in the past
As for 05 how in fksnames can anybody nake a case for us not deserving that
As for 05 how in fksnames can anybody nake a case for us not deserving that
You mean the same Shane Warne thats been playing the IPL and still taking wickets regularly.... As for your first comment, arses handed to them
He was a bit rubbish in the IPL actually.
They should lift the ban on Symonds.
How fking sweet was that - makes up for a fe of the drubbings in the past
As for 05 how in fksnames can anybody nake a case for us not deserving that
Does it really make up for it? Still a lot of cricket to be played.
As for Warne coming out of retirement I can't see it happening. Just need to take this one on the chin and develop for the future. The depth of Australian cricket is still there and a new generation of quality players can come from anywhere sooner rather than later.
While our team at the moment is easily capable of beating the poms and getting a series draw I can see a fair few losses like this one coming in the next 5 years.
This is where I disagree with you....I don't think we are easily capable of beating the Poms, to do that we have to take 20 wickets.
When in reality at one stage including the English 2nd innings at the GABBA, we'd taken 5 wickets for close to 1100 runs.
I can't see it carrying on forever though. Their batting lineup isn't the most amazing I have ever seen and are quite capable of epic collapses like the one we saw at the Gabba no matter how bad our bowling lineup is. Siddle tore through them in one spell and I can't say I have ever thought him anything special.
For the Aussies to take 20 wickets your going to need to start preparing pitches that aid bowling heavily and hope for swing and lots and lots of it, on flat decks with this attack its taking you over 120 overs to get to England's number 6! your attack is very very poor and Englands batting has shown already its very good.
England are playing near the top of their game and Australia are poor in batting terms although there is quite a bit of currently unrealised potential but they are crap in bowling terms with far less potential for a turn around. It will take a dramatic improvement from Australia all round and something of a significant decline in England for England not to retain the Ashes now.
Nice to see the Ozzie based posters offering there usual subjective opinions "if Ozzie lose it's because Ozzie played badly, if Ozzie wins it's because Ozzie played great".
There's nothing much wrong with the batting of Australia. But when you are under the kind of pressure that they are it makes batting so much more difficult. You tense up and make mistakes you wouldn't normally do. The same goes for their fielding.
It's a shame that when ever England beat Australia it's because of the Australians, and not because of the English…
The truth is that England are becoming a top test side. They are going to give every test side in the world a very hard game. To beat Australia like that on their turf is very impressive no matter what state Australian cricket is in. In fact Australia haven't been hammered like that at home since the great Windies sides.
England aren't there just yet though. If they let up just 1% then Australia can still come back at them in the final 3 tests.
There's nothing much wrong with the batting of Australia. But when you are under the kind of pressure that they are it makes batting so much more difficult. You tense up and make mistakes you wouldn't normally do. The same goes for their fielding.
It's a shame that when ever England beat Australia it's because of the Australians, and not because of the English…
The truth is that England are becoming a top test side. They are going to give every test side in the world a very hard game. To beat Australia like that on their turf is very impressive no matter what state Australian cricket is in. In fact Australia haven't been hammered like that at home since the great Windies sides.
England aren't there just yet though. If they let up just 1% then Australia can still come back at them in the final 3 tests.
Well this is the bit is'nt it - that separates the very good from the great - after winning this a great side would really focus even more and hammer home a two test advantage and go on from there
It's quite within England's make up to now sit back and gloat - and take a beating ...........and then moan about it
Jobs not even half done yet
It is natural for us to look at our own failings, United win, we are great...United lose...we played shit. That doesn't mean the opposition haven't outperformed us, or been dominant.
But anytime a batting lineup over a period of 2 tests puts up close to 1100 runs for the loss of 5 wickets, questions have to be asked about the quality of bowling they are facing.
Answer = very poor bowling attack.
Aussie media, have been very gracious to give England credit where it's due.
I think the ratings here are spot on
Second Ashes Test: Player ratings
Agree with Rams. If the poms don´t turn the screws further in perth and let us in, could be a massive swing.
As the scouse would say "It's On!"
As the scouse would say "It's On!"
If I was Australia I would call up Warne. I mean, why not? He's not going to be worse than Doherty, and it may just give the team a lift.
Fair point, I can't judge from here how the Australian media is reacting. The Ozzie attack looks weak. But apart from not having a decent spinner, they do have some handy medium pacers/quickies. Siddle hasn't become a bad bowler overnight and Harris will be a handful if Perth, Melbourne and Sidney produce quicker wickets. (Why don't they pick Tait btw? Harris, Siddle and Tait would be a handy attack IMO)
Anderson looks like he'll even swing it if they played in the dessert. A long with Steyn I would say they're the no.1 pace bowlers at the moment.
Broad and Finn weren't really threatening though, they just bowled with more control than the Ozzies.
But what makes this England side a top test side is that they don't have any obvious weaknesses. Take the fielding for example. In the past half England sides in Australia looked as though they couldn't field to save their lives. They looked wooden and couldn't move, catch, run or throw.
Now they all seem very capable. Trott, England's worst fielder, even got a very difficult and crucial run out which set the tone for this test.
Final scorecard, makes very satisfactory reading:
BBC SPORT | Cricket Scorecard
Austarlia will have to find something if they are to have any chance of even drawing the series or at least getting some self respect back, never mind regain the Ashes.
Roll on the 3rd Test!
BBC SPORT | Cricket Scorecard
Austarlia will have to find something if they are to have any chance of even drawing the series or at least getting some self respect back, never mind regain the Ashes.
Roll on the 3rd Test!
Tait - his body simply can't the stress of 5 day cricket, so he's given up 1st class cricket.
T20 and 50 over matches at a push for him.
The problem with us is that we have hardly been able to bowl consistent line and length to threaten the English batsmen and dry up the runs. Only once has a bowler bowled good line and length and look what came out of it: a hattrick. Our bowling attack is lame and there is no conceivable short term fix to the problem. Bollinger's fitness is questionable at the moment and Doherty is by no means test quality. The only bowlers I can see coming in and making a difference are Stuart Clark and perhaps Shaun Tait. Why Stuart Clark doesn't get a look in is beyond me, he offers what Australia lack and has a plethora of experience behind him. Steve Smith's status in the Australian squad is still questionable; his bowling is not quite up to standard and should be regarded as a handy lower order batsman who can bowl a bit, but his attitude and application on the field is excellent.
Talk has been if England retains the Ashes, wholesale changes should be made to the Australian test team, in particular the middle order. I'm of the opinion that thest changes need to be made now; perhaps not all of them, but batsmen of the future (eg Khawaja, Ferguson, Hughes etc) should play at least some part in the Ashes series. North has well overstayed his welcome and his bowling, probably the only thing keeping him in the team, is used very sparingly. Katich's Achilles tendon opens the door wide open for Hughes to restake his claim as a Test batsman.
Overall, there is plenty for Hilditch and the rest of the selectors to think about, but knowing how much courage they have, the changes will probably end up being only Hughes for Katich and Hilfenhaus/Johnson for Bollinger.
As for England, who do you guys deem to be the best replacement for Broad at the WACA?
Talk has been if England retains the Ashes, wholesale changes should be made to the Australian test team, in particular the middle order. I'm of the opinion that thest changes need to be made now; perhaps not all of them, but batsmen of the future (eg Khawaja, Ferguson, Hughes etc) should play at least some part in the Ashes series. North has well overstayed his welcome and his bowling, probably the only thing keeping him in the team, is used very sparingly. Katich's Achilles tendon opens the door wide open for Hughes to restake his claim as a Test batsman.
Overall, there is plenty for Hilditch and the rest of the selectors to think about, but knowing how much courage they have, the changes will probably end up being only Hughes for Katich and Hilfenhaus/Johnson for Bollinger.
As for England, who do you guys deem to be the best replacement for Broad at the WACA?
I think England will go with Tremlett, big guy, with it being played at the WACA(despite the reduced bounce these days). I would have said Shazad was in with a real should if England were struggling with the bat, because he like Broad offers a bit with the bat in hand down the order.
But with the kind of batting form they've been in so far...it'll be Chris Tremlett.
But with the kind of batting form they've been in so far...it'll be Chris Tremlett.
Wouldn't Bresnan be first choice if England wanted to shore up their batting?
Class from England last night. As Hussein said, we won pretty much every session and beat them with the ball, bat, and in the field.
Can't help but think that we missed a trick on the 4th morning by not giving some more wickets away to Doherty - he may have had a chance at keeping his place for the WACA then!
In all seriousness, it was a great performance from the lads and a well deserved 1-0 lead. The state Australia seem to be in at the moment, I'd be very disappointed if we don't go on to win the series from here. I'm definitely getting ahead of myself, just hope Strauss et al aren't doing the same.
Can't help but think that we missed a trick on the 4th morning by not giving some more wickets away to Doherty - he may have had a chance at keeping his place for the WACA then!
In all seriousness, it was a great performance from the lads and a well deserved 1-0 lead. The state Australia seem to be in at the moment, I'd be very disappointed if we don't go on to win the series from here. I'm definitely getting ahead of myself, just hope Strauss et al aren't doing the same.
Bresnan is a bit shit(imo)...I don't know actually, just hear my english friends always raving about Shezhad(sp?) and how he is a really good prospect, and can bat a bit too.
What does everyone make of Finn and his potential against better opponents than this?
I rather like him, for a young lad he comes across very intelligent and has a very economical action, but I would like him to bowl with a little more pace but yeah I expect alot from him in the coming years.
I rather like him, for a young lad he comes across very intelligent and has a very economical action, but I would like him to bowl with a little more pace but yeah I expect alot from him in the coming years.
I'm still not convinced about Finn long term to be honest. I don't know why, but I have a nagging feeling that he's actually a bit shit. It doesn't make sense because he always seems to do well enough.
i like the look of him myself - anything could happen but if he stays fit then i reckon he's a shoo-in for 200+ test wickets for england.