McTominay - what’s his potential?

markhughes said:
He isn't suddenly going to get better in the technical department, he may improve tactically however its wishful thinking that he will ever be more that a squad player. This goes for Scott and Fred, we should move the latter on and Scott should not be a regular starter for us.
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Yes you got that right. Fred was a bad buy especially for the money he cost. McTom might be better moving on to a Burnley/Southampton type of club, as he isnt anywhere near the quality we need to move on. At 24 1/2 he is probably the best he is going to be.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I’m not even his biggest fan but this is kneejerk again. He’s actually had a pretty decent season, as has Fred. Not sure why those two are getting all the stick when they have been our only reliable midfield options all season. Yes we need to upgrade our first 11 and McTominay is the obvious weak link but he will continue to play a key role for the next couple of seasons. If we are lucky he will continue to improve and play a big part in competing. He just isn’t suited to playing regularly alongside Fred and that’s not really a slight on either player.
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It's exactly this.
We lost a game, so suddenly all the Glazer/Ole/coaching/every player threads are all super negative.

Ignoring that it was quite a freak scenario of the packed schedule and all the off field distractions.
 
wolvored said:
Yes you got that right. Fred was a bad buy especially for the money he cost. McTom might be better moving on to a Burnley/Southampton type of club, as he isnt anywhere near the quality we need to move on. At 24 1/2 he is probably the best he is going to be.
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Really? A CMs best days are usually from mid 20s to early 30s. Fletcher only just started looking like a starter when he was at McT’s age, and he had been in the first team way longer.
 
Im a big fan of McTominay but in a realistic way. His passing stats arent anything special but he has a physicality and surge of pace that makes a big difference to the midfield and he works really hard and combines really well with Fred. At the same time I have to admit, he feels like a Phil Neville, Darren Fletcher, Tom Cleverley or Jesse Lingard level player who has to be performing at his absolute limit to stay at this level.
 
wolvored said:
Yes you got that right. Fred was a bad buy especially for the money he cost. McTom might be better moving on to a Burnley/Southampton type of club, as he isnt anywhere near the quality we need to move on. At 24 1/2 he is probably the best he is going to be.
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Fred clearly wasnt a bad buy, hes our fist choice CM. At the same time youre probably right that both he and McTominay are already playing to their full potential.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Im a big fan of McTominay but in a realistic way. His passing stats arent anything special but he has a physicality and surge of pace that makes a big difference to the midfield and he works really hard and combines really well with Fred. At the same time I have to admit, he feels like a Phil Neville, Darren Fletcher, Tom Cleverley or Jesse Lingard level player who has to be performing at his absolute limit to stay at this level.
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He never is a player of that level. All those players you mentioned were much better players. Yes he does have his good days but his positional sense is awful. So is his passing and his vision. Yes he does have a good shot and has decent dribbling skills. But that's not enough to be a regular in midfield for Manchester United or any other top club.
 
Foxbatt said:
He never is a player of that level. All those players you mentioned were much better players. Yes he does have his good days but his positional sense is awful. So is his passing and his vision. Yes he does have a good shot and has decent dribbling skills. But that's not enough to be a regular in midfield for Manchester United or any other top club.
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You dont think hes as good as Tom Cleverley or Phil Neville? That seems like Hyperbole.
 
McTominay brings a lot of energy and is a decent player but we can do with better if we're serious about winning things, which unfortunately we aren't.
 
United in sin said:
He was 28 when he left.
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Yes and although not really a first choice player for us he played a lot of games. Also 59 England caps, 15 of which in midfield. He was much better than McT is now.

Not to say McT can’t surpass Phil one day but, despite the above, that wouldn’t be saying all that much.
 
Good enough to fight for a place in the squad, but probably not an ideal sign if he's in the strongest 11. Given his ability to pick a shot from distance I I'm not sure why he finds it so difficult to pass progressively.
 
McTominay is a regular starter for the team currently 2nd in the PL. Given his age, the amount of football he has played in his career to date and the position he plays, it is reasonable to expect him to improve a bit, but probably not a huge amount.

I think he could be a regular starter for a title winning team or CL winning team but is unlikely to be one of the best players in the team.

If you go back to the day before Bruno played his first game against Wolves last season, United were 5th, ahead of Spurs and Wolves on goal difference. So the team with Pereira, Lingard, Dan James, Fred and Scott, Ashley Young 956 mins, Mata 622 mins, De Gea making costly errors from time to time, was 5th after 24 games. On expected points, Understat had us as 4th at that stage of the season, as we were underperforming both our expected goals and our expected goals against. The addition of Fernandes, Greenwood getting regular starts, with Pogba appearing after the Covid break, took that team up to 3rd by the end of the season.

There seem to be a lot of posters on here who don't appreciate the amount of work that Scott and Fred put in, match after match, in the system we play. Of course you could replace them, but other players would have to cover far more distance than they have done this season.
 
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Scholsey2004 said:
You dont think hes as good as Tom Cleverley or Phil Neville? That seems like Hyperbole.
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No I don't think so. Cleverly before he was injured was very good along with Ando. Phil Neville is a much better player than McTominay. Phil Neville had much better players to compete. World class players who could get into any team those days.
 
Phil Nevilles game against Arsenal in OT 02/03..... can't see McT putting in a performance like that....
 
It’s funny. Early posts in this thread are calling him one of the best midfielders in the league, later posts are calling for him to be sold to Burnley.

Next time he has a good game he’ll be the Scottish Gerrard again right?

McTominay is alright. No thrills, nothing special, absolutely should not be starting for a CL team. He has a place as a squad player but nothing more. He’s always been that, but the reactive nature of fans amuses me. The Williams thread was similar, early posts talking about him being fantastic, later posts calling him league 2 level.

All football fans overrate their youngsters. This is just a fact. For every Mason Greenwood there is 10 James Wilson’s. McTominay isn’t very good, but he works hard, seems to genuinely care, & is homegrown. This is what protects him from criticism from the majority of the domestic fan base. The majority of the criticism seems to come from overseas fans, who don’t care about the academy thing.
 
OrcaFat said:
Yes and although not really a first choice player for us he played a lot of games. Also 59 England caps, 15 of which in midfield. He was much better than McT is now.

Not to say McT can’t surpass Phil one day but, despite the above, that wouldn’t be saying all that much.
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I don't think McTominay has the ability to surpass Phil Neville. I agree with your sentiment.
 
Raveneye said:
Good enough to fight for a place in the squad, but probably not an ideal sign if he's in the strongest 11. Given his ability to pick a shot from distance I I'm not sure why he finds it so difficult to pass progressively.
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It’s exactly the same with strikers though and he started as one that’s why. The guy has an eye for goal I’ll give him that. It’s the other parts of the game that maybe don’t come naturally to him.

I love his physicality in our team but it’s just a shame he’s a bit hit and miss. Still a good player I’m not expecting the guy to be Xavi.

He’s kinda nearing his peak being as physical as he is. Casemiro at Real Madrid was probably best around his mid 20’s and he plays a similar role for them.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
You dont think hes as good as Tom Cleverley or Phil Neville? That seems like Hyperbole.
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He's definitely better than both of them due to his far more impressive physical attributes. But he's below Darren Fletcher and in the squad player bucket for me. Never automatic starter standard for Manchester United.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He's definitely better than both of them due to his far more impressive physical attributes. But he's below Darren Fletcher and in the squad player bucket for me. Never automatic starter standard for Manchester United.
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What good are physical attributes if you are mediocre at best with a ball? It's not even impressive, he's just tall
 
clarkydaz said:
What good are physical attributes if you are mediocre at best with a ball? It's not even impressive, he's just tall
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Hes extremely strong. Gets stuck in well. Teams sometimes find it hard to deal with his physicality, much like Fellaini.

I don't disagree that he's mediocre on the ball and it's a big problem for us. Just stating that it definitely makes him better than Phil Neville and Tom Cleverley (which is a low bar!).
 
markhughes said:
He isn't suddenly going to get better in the technical department, he may improve tactically however its wishful thinking that he will ever be more that a squad player. This goes for Scott and Fred, we should move the latter on and Scott should not be a regular starter for us.
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This is the the crux of the matter unfortunately, he will no doubt become more tactically astute with experience, but hes never going to be tidy on the ball and thats a big, big problem for a CM
 
I thought he is somewhere between Nicky Butt and Cleverley - not as good as Butt, but better than Cleverley.
 
Bobcat said:
This is the the crux of the matter unfortunately, he will no doubt become more tactically astute with experience, but hes never going to be tidy on the ball and thats a big, big problem for a CM
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Agree. There is scope for improvement but the lack of ability in the passing and general on the ball quality, will always remain. That's the issue and why he can't be the main starting CM.
 
kundalini said:
I think he could be a regular starter for a title winning team or CL winning team but is unlikely to be one of the best players in the team.
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Same here.

He needs to develop his decision making; play more on his strengths and avoid “difficult” situations that makes him look worse than he is. Sometimes it seems like he overestimates his technical skills - gets into trouble. He’s fine technically, but he isn’t Pogba - like he occasionally seems to believe.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I thought he is somewhere between Nicky Butt and Cleverley - not as good as Butt, but better than Cleverley.
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I think thats a fair comparison. Technically and in terms of passing hes about the same level as Cleverley, same energy but hes much bigger, stronger and quicker. Butt was more technically gifted with a better passing range than either.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
I think thats a fair comparison. Technically and in terms of passing hes about the same level as Cleverley, same energy but hes much bigger, stronger and quicker. Butt was more technically gifted with a better passing range than either.
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If Butt was better technically I don't think it was by much. I'd put them at about the same level in that regard.

McTominay's problem this season is that the second half of it has gone a bit flat for him. He was showing some really good stuff early on and I though if he could just push on a bit, make his better performances more consistent, we'd know for sure next season we've got a player.

But it's not gone like that unfortunately. It doesn't help that midfielders can't tackle anymore, especially when you're the McTominay type.

Imagine Butt playing with today's refs. Half of his game would be taken away. Can't go near anyone.
 
I think McT is an okay player. I think he has the potential to be a good utility squad player like O’Shea but he has to understand and accept his limitations and stop trying to play like he has more footballing ability than he possesses.

It’s painful and infuriating watching him trying to do a fancy turn or dribble whenever he has possession of the ball and then eventually giving it away. His passing is also very average .

He’s not a Man United starting midfielder but a good rotation option. It’s not his fault too much is being asked of him at the moment. Both he and Fred’s role needs to be limited and that will start buy getting better starting quality midfielders in.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He's definitely better than both of them due to his far more impressive physical attributes. But he's below Darren Fletcher and in the squad player bucket for me. Never automatic starter standard for Manchester United.
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Well, he is automatic starter standard until we sign or develop a world class midfielder which, lets be honest, is some distance away. I dont like the idea of saying a player shouldnt be starting for us when hes actually the best player we have in that position, its throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Hes actually statistically better at most things these days than Saul at Athletico who's a similar style so I think he's certainly 'good enough to play for United'. Do we need a technical player like Gundogan to push us up another level? Obviously thats a question thats worth asking. People might jump in with 'but Pogba' but in my opinion hes always been a mediocre centre midfielder when we've played him there, certainly compared to his performance level in CAM or inside left.
 
I think McTominay is a good squad player to have, he brings aggressiveness into the midfield, providing their are players more technically able to play around him, then the responsibility to create etc will be less on him
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Well, he is automatic starter standard until we sign or develop a world class midfielder which, lets be honest, is some distance away. I dont like the idea of saying a player shouldnt be starting for us when hes actually the best player we have in that position, its throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Hes actually statistically better at most things these days than Saul at Athletico who's a similar style so I think he's certainly 'good enough to play for United'. Do we need a technical player like Gundogan to push us up another level? Obviously thats a question thats worth asking. People might jump in with 'but Pogba' but in my opinion hes always been a mediocre centre midfielder when we've played him there, certainly compared to his performance level in CAM or inside left.
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Or just a very good one. You don't need to be world class to be better than Mctominay. But yeah, he is deservedly first choice right now. Just a crying shame that this is our level these days.
 
BlackBen said:
I think McT is an okay player. I think he has the potential to be a good utility squad player like O’Shea but he has to understand and accept his limitations and stop trying to play like he has more footballing ability than he possesses.

It’s painful and infuriating watching him trying to do a fancy turn or dribble whenever he has possession of the ball and then eventually giving it away. His passing is also very average .

He’s not a Man United starting midfielder but a good rotation option. It’s not his fault too much is being asked of him at the moment. Both he and Fred’s role needs to be limited and that will start buy getting better starting quality midfielders in.
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Asking a player to do less seems a surefire way to reduce his effectiveness to me. His surging runs are probably his biggest quality and youd have him stop doing that? No, sorry.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Or just a very good one. You don't need to be world class to be better than Mctominay. But yeah, he is deservedly first choice right now. Just a crying shame that this is our level these days.
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I dont know. Tom Cleverley won a league title with us time sharing with a thousand year old Ryan Giggs. Danny Drinkwater did the samecat Leicester. Hes better than both of those two. Nowadays because of the pressing style industry seems to trump technical performance in midfield. Obviously a player who can swarm and is technically excellent is a real goldmine nowadays.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
I dont know. Tom Cleverley won a league title with us time sharing with a thousand year old Ryan Giggs. Danny Drinkwater did the samecat Leicester. Hes better than both of those two. Nowadays because of the pressing style industry seems to trump technical performance in midfield. Obviously a player who can swarm and is technically excellent is a real goldmine nowadays.
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I don't think it's that rare. Wijnaldum for example at Liverpool is miles better technically than Mctominay and worked hard enough to be make the press work.

We won the league with Cleverley under Sir Alex. Giggs at 80 is twice the player Mctominay will ever be. And Leicester is a freak season. We need to up our standards and think like the Madrid's and Bayern's of this world , not try to win big titles with mediocre talents.
 
Marwood said:
If Butt was better technically I don't think it was by much. I'd put them at about the same level in that regard.

McTominay's problem this season is that the second half of it has gone a bit flat for him. He was showing some really good stuff early on and I though if he could just push on a bit, make his better performances more consistent, we'd know for sure next season we've got a player.

But it's not gone like that unfortunately. It doesn't help that midfielders can't tackle anymore, especially when you're the McTominay type.

Imagine Butt playing with today's refs. Half of his game would be taken away. Can't go near anyone.
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I think this is underselling Butt a bit. He was very tidy on the ball and rarely gave it away. He had a better touch than Scotty too - he wasn't just a spoiler. I agree with the general consensus - useful squaddie but not good enough to start for a team lookin to challenge for the highest honours. I was surprised by his attacking contribution at times this season, though. Has a decent eye for goal on occasion, it's just a shame that he's quite loose on the ball and his passing is so hit and miss.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Asking a player to do less seems a surefire way to reduce his effectiveness to me. His surging runs are probably his biggest quality and youd have him stop doing that? No, sorry.
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Yes I’d have him stop doing that especially when he’s playing with Fred as CDMs. I preferred how Mourinho used him when he initially broke into the team. He had a very specific task with less responsibility.
 
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