McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season

Chief123 said:
Deflect all you want.

You contradicted yourself saying you would never boo or heckle a player no matter how bad they were when it was related to your beloved Maguire. When it comes to McFred, you are now encouraging others to boo and heckle them. Absolutely unbelievable hypocrisy. If that's not showing blinded unconditional defence of Maguire, nothing else will.
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You're very strangely bitter and/or full of hatred towards Maguire. You have lurked and followed my posts for months, waiting for me to say something negative about another player and then you've jumped on that and deliberately chosen only a partial quote to make some kind of twisted point in an unrelated thread.

The fact you have even remembered that when it was posted, what, 6-months ago, tells everything we need to know about your mentality at this point I think. You're not here to chat or debate, you're just here for arguments.
 
Borys said:
Yep. That is as good as it gets this season.


Then Ten Hag should do it differently, maybe 3 at the back or whatever, but it's pretty clear now it's not going to work with those midfielders we have. I mean, we really can't blame Fred for not performing in the role he's clearly not suited to? It's up to the manager how he wants us to play considering those limitations. What a pickle eh.
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Or the club should get the manager new midfielders as he has asked for?
 
SuperiorXI said:
It's a cataclysmic decision from the club.

They should have been on this issue since the start of last season - we should have multiple signings in by now. It's fecking farcical that we are still playing dumb and dumber in the middle of the pitch. A complete disgrace. A shuttle crash.
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Basically. It’s a position we can’t hide from, it’s going to torpedo our season before it even gets going.
 
Keep Bruno away from the Brentford game. You have to mark that poor performances are punished.
 
Lentwood said:
You're very strangely bitter and/or full of hatred towards Maguire. You have lurked and followed my posts for months, waiting for me to say something negative about another player and then you've jumped on that and deliberately chosen only a partial quote to make some kind of twisted point in an unrelated thread.

The fact you have even remembered that when it was posted, what, 6-months ago, tells everything we need to know about your mentality at this point I think. You're not here to chat or debate, you're just here for arguments.
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Don't be a melt. Don't flatter yourself to think I followed you for months.

It's easy to remember the handful of people who talk nonsense. Especially with their unconditional defence of Maguire. There's about 3 of you. There's a brilliant search feature which allows you to easily find a post.

The truth is this is not about Maguire. You got called out on your BS and now you're trying to backtrack. Good luck.
 
Cassidy said:
Or the club should get the manager new midfielders as he has asked for?
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If it was that simple. I will not blame the manager or the club for not delivering players like de Jong. Clearly top players are not keen on joining United, that's understandable.
Surely there isn't one midfielder who we need to play decent football? If that's the case, we should be bringing the others in next two-three weeks and then see how it goes. August and September are for scrap it seems, the whole preseason we spent on getting players up to fitness but not much more in terms of team play.
 
Borys said:
If it was that simple. I will not blame the manager or the club for not delivering players like de Jong. Clearly top players are not keen on joining United, that's understandable.
Surely there isn't one midfielder who we need to play decent football? If that's the case, we should be bringing the others in next two-three weeks and then see how it goes. August and September are for scrap it seems, the whole preseason we spent on getting players up to fitness but not much more in terms of team play.
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You see my post where it says midfielders
 
The word "McFred" is worse than the actual midfield combination Fred and McTominay. And for that reason alone I don't want them in the same XI.
 
Chief123 said:
Don't be a melt. Don't flatter yourself to think I followed you for months.

It's easy to remember the handful of people who talk nonsense. Especially with their unconditional defence of Maguire. There's about 3 of you. There's a brilliant search feature which allows you to easily find a post.

The truth is this is not about Maguire. You got called out on your BS and now you're trying to backtrack. Good luck.
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Well I look forward to you policing the rest of the forum with such vigour. For the record, in-case you missed it somehow whilst you were busy with your detective work, we don't actually have a player called 'McFred'.

Hence my point, it's not personal. I like McTominay, average player, good attitude. Fred is terrible, but he shouldn't be booed for being terrible, just like Rashford, De Gea and Dalot shouldn't be booed for being terrible.

In fact, use that search feature to see that I even defended Pogba, who I believed was a lazy waster who should have been sold two seasons ago, when he was booed

I will concede I should have been clearer about what I meant by 'it's not personal' but I typed that out on my phone mid-game and I didn't realise my posts were being forensically examined.
 
kouroux said:
That's what worried me about ETH, we have years worth of content/data/evidence that shows McT and Fred aren't suited for that particular disposition, never mind the easy eye test that wouldn't even take more than 2-3 games of last season. I don't understand why such easy decision as not to play them both at the same time is something that's hard to do for managers. What's going on ?
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I think its ego. All managers almost want to see if they can change and improve the player even if there is loads of evidence. I mean if he actually properly took Ralph's information seriously he wouldn't even have to deal with these issues but he didn't want to so now he will have to go through the pain.
 
acnumber9 said:
We’ve spent all summer chasing a midfield player.
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Oh, glad to see we only needed one then when two went out the door and most thought we needed more even before that happened….
 
kouroux said:
That's what worried me about ETH, we have years worth of content/data/evidence that shows McT and Fred aren't suited for that particular disposition, never mind the easy eye test that wouldn't even take more than 2-3 games of last season. I don't understand why such easy decision as not to play them both at the same time is something that's hard to do for managers. What's going on ?
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Lack of numbers in that position and the idea of a "safe pair of hands" (in reality a constant in a team that has now lost 6 of their last 9 league games).

I can understand the logic. The other options in defensive midfield are:

Eriksen (he's always played attacking midfield, could be a liability defensively)
Van de Beek (again attacking midfielder usually)
Garner (would be making his Premier League debut as a starter?)
Any of the defenders (out of position)
Any other youngsters (could be out of their depth)

The end result if you rule all those players out is... McFred again. Matic is no longer here even to offer another option
 
If there was ever proof that ole set us back years.

Before ole we have matic, pogba and herrera.

Since ole took over we now have fred and mctominay and all 3 of the midfielders previously mentioned have left on a free...
 
Trex said:
McFred and Bruno have no maturity in possession, how did ETH miss this?
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He's finding out right now, my suspicion is that perhaps he thought one of both could be developed into the kind of player that would work in his system? They have the physical qualities required, but are lacking the technical and mental qualities.
 
The Hilton said:
He's finding out right now, my suspicion is that perhaps he thought one of both could be developed into the kind of player that would work in his system? They have the physical qualities required, but are lacking the technical and mental qualities.
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He either overrated their abilities or his.
 
Trex said:
He either overrated their abilities or his.
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Probably a bit of both, but we need to give him time to make these decisions himself - one pre season isn't enough to take us from an awful mess into world beaters, especially with very few players that fit his system or what he's looking for. He'll have a much better picture in the next few weeks as to what we're lacking.
 
The Hilton said:
Probably a bit of both, but we need to give him time to make these decisions himself - one pre season isn't enough to take us from an awful mess into world beaters, especially with very few players that fit his system or what he's looking for. He'll have a much better picture in the next few weeks as to what we're lacking.
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Agreed but I just wish there was better preparation, its Murtough that's looks worst for me.
 
Watching these two is akin to death by a thousand cuts. When your midfield can't keep the ball, you haven't a hope. And with someone like Bruno, you need players in there too look after possession with the style he plays.

Whether Ronaldo goes or not, we need two starting midfielders desperately. It doesn't matter how many goals we have in our attacking line-up if we can't function in midfield.

I'd rather go into next season with our entire budget lined up for a CF to come in and be that missing piece. Signing a CF with that midfield is throwing money down the drain anyway.
 
Trex said:
Agreed but I just wish there was better preparation, its Murtough that's looks worst for me.
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Yeah I get that, although it's mitigated a bit as Murtough has walked into a role that previously had no succession planning and had to handle a succession immediately.

Hopefully in time he'll be able to take a more long term approach.
 
eire-red said:
Watching these two is akin to death by a thousand cuts. When your midfield can't keep the ball, you haven't a hope. And with someone like Bruno, you need players in there too look after possession with the style he plays.

Whether Ronaldo goes or not, we need two starting midfielders desperately. It doesn't matter how many goals we have in our attacking line-up if we can't function in midfield.

I'd rather go into next season with our entire budget lined up for a CF to come in and be that missing piece. Signing a CF with that midfield is throwing money down the drain anyway.
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The thing is, they can keep the ball. They just can't do anything creative with it. The manager should have asked them to play accordingly.
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah I get that, although it's mitigated a bit as Murtough has walked into a role that previously had no succession planning and had to handle a succession immediately.

Hopefully in time he'll be able to take a more long term approach.
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Its clear we are literally starting from the scratch, expectations need to be very low for this season maybe a top 6 finish.
 
Litch said:
Oh, glad to see we only needed one then when two went out the door and most thought we needed more even before that happened….
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What we need and what we can afford aren’t the same thing. It’s obvious that a midfielder has been the main priority. That is De Jong. We have also signed Eriksen who is likely to play in midfield. We aren’t playing Fred and McTominay because the manager doesn’t think they’re a problem. We’re playing them because we have failed to sign our primary target.
 
Trex said:
Its clear we are literally starting from the scratch, expectations need to be very low for this season maybe a top 6 finish.
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Yeah agreed, but I'm OK with that as long as we see progress from a style and coherence standpoint. If by the end of the season we're starting to look like a well drilled team, with a coherent press, and players who understand their roles and are willing to work for the team, then I'll consider it a success (as long as we aren't relegated or anything stupid like that).
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah agreed, but I'm OK with that as long as we see progress from a style and coherence standpoint. If by the end of the season we're starting to look like a well drilled team, with a coherent press, and players who understand their roles and are willing to work for the team, then I'll consider it a success (as long as we aren't relegated or anything stupid like that).
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Its funny because we're talking about United here.
 
McFred will be in the dictionary:
'having no ability or skill in a specified activity or area' or 'not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome'
 
At least Fred has a bit of flair to his game especially when he plays in more advanced positions with Brazil.

However MCT brings very little. He loves passing sideways or striding forward with no purpose whatsoever. That steely aggressive look he portrays is all bark and no bite.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The pass completion stats from the pair of them were straight up diabolical. I thought McT wasn’t all that terrible watching the game but have since found out almost 1 in 3 of his passes missed their target. That’s absolutely shameful for the position he plays.
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For someone who has now come round to how poor Scott is, I'm surprised that your initial take on yesterday's performance was anything but diabolical.
 
Problem is, ten Hag is trying to play a possession-based game without possession-based players.

Whatever people say about the McTominay and Fred, they always give their all, which is more than can be said about others in the team. However, they excel or are certainly better, when they are not in possession of the ball. That's not exactly a bad thing, because you need that balance, however, in a style where keeping the ball is paramount to the way ten Hag wants to play, then the two probably shouldn't be lining up together.

If you look at City's midfield yesterday, which is the template ten Hag is looking to follow, with the 235, they had Rodri, Gundogan and De Bruyne, who are all fantastic ball players. They also had Phillips and Silva, who are also very good with the ball, especially the latter.

At the moment, we have Eriksen, Van de Beek and Bruno, with the latter having a tendency of being inconsistent.

Going forward, it will take ten Hag a bit of time to really implement the style he wants, but he will need his type of players to do so.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Whatever people say about the McTominay and Fred, they always give their all, which is more than can be said about others in the team.
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You say that, but McTominay jogs back a lot when he really should be helping the defense more.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Problem is, ten Hag is trying to play a possession-based game without possession-based players.

Whatever people say about the McTominay and Fred, they always give their all, which is more than can be said about others in the team. However, they excel or are certainly better, when they are not in possession of the ball. That's not exactly a bad thing, because you need that balance, however, in a style where keeping the ball is paramount to the way ten Hag wants to play, then the two probably shouldn't be lining up together.

If you look at City's midfield yesterday, which is the template ten Hag is looking to follow, with the 235, they had Rodri, Gundogan and De Bruyne, who are all fantastic ball players. They also had Phillips and Silva, who are also very good with the ball, especially the latter.

At the moment, we have Eriksen, Van de Beek and Bruno, with the latter having a tendency of being inconsistent.

Going forward, it will take ten Hag a bit of time to really implement the style he wants, but he will need his type of players to do so.
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They do not always give their all at all. McTominay certainly doesn't. And he is not good without the ball either. If he gave his all, and was good without the ball, he'd track runners for a start, and also be able to tackle and position himself well. Yet he can do none of these. Contrary to the insinuation, these players are not good defensively. Do you not watch us? They are played through, passed around, every single fecking week, by just about any team. Mark my words, they will be passed around by Brentford on Saturday too.

None of what you said above is true, except the part that City have talented midfielders. As for 'Ten Hag's style of football' that I have read so much about over recent months - Ten Hag's style of football is the style of football played by Ten Hag. His type of player is the type of player played by Ten Hag. And presently, what he has shown me is that this is Scott McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Rashford and co. He hasn't prioritised replacing them at all, he seems to have only drawn a line over AWB from our first teamers, which can only mean that he does not see the others the same as he sees AWB. He has 3 weeks to show otherwise, and if not, nobody can see that he doesn't have his type of players. He's just had a 3 month window, one in which, according to reports - he has turned down interest in Maguire and McTominay, and possibly been complicit in extending Bruno's deal. He has, until this morning, pursued only one central midfielder. He's spent £70m on defenders when the players there are far more competent than the ones he has in his midfield. Unless of course, he doesn't think so. All of this shows that he doesn't see what he has as unacceptable at all, and must therefore be judged on what he does with them. You and I both know that will be the square root of feck all, and if this is his midfield when the window closes, then he must lie in the bed he made.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Lack of numbers in that position and the idea of a "safe pair of hands" (in reality a constant in a team that has now lost 6 of their last 9 league games).

I can understand the logic. The other options in defensive midfield are:

Eriksen (he's always played attacking midfield, could be a liability defensively)
Van de Beek (again attacking midfielder usually)
Garner (would be making his Premier League debut as a starter?)
Any of the defenders (out of position)
Any other youngsters (could be out of their depth)

The end result if you rule all those players out is... McFred again. Matic is no longer here even to offer another option
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Regarding Garner, it'd have been the perfect time to give him his debut. First game of the season at home. Between a tried and guaranteed failure of a duo and something different (including starting one of Fred/McT with another player), I don't think the choice should be hard.
Like you said losing 6 of the last 9 + the performances should have been more than enough to bin this duo for ever. I swear I'm lost for words. Not that any other formation would automatically be better but at least try something
 
Champ said:
You for real?
Fred was awful, could have cost the team two goals.
McT was actually decent.
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De Gea had more passes than McTominay in midfield, and Mctominay only had a 66% pass accuracy (from a guy who never attempts adventurous passes). His performance was the biggest reason for the disaster yesterday. He was horrific.
 
mancan92 said:
I think its ego. All managers almost want to see if they can change and improve the player even if there is loads of evidence. I mean if he actually properly took Ralph's information seriously he wouldn't even have to deal with these issues but he didn't want to so now he will have to go through the pain.
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I hope it's not that because otherwise we will hamper ourselves already after matchday 1
 
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