Can we put gore warnings over titles like this in case any of us wanted to sleep tonight?
McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season
- Thread starter Kush
- Start date
We have HUGE problems playing out from the back and Scott hides from the ball so there goes your theory down the drain.
Log off Scott, you shouldn't be on the Caf.
It's incredible how much heat McFred are getting, as if we'd be a flawless team with Keane and Scholes in there.
There's many weaknesses elsewhere, but such is our need to scape goat.
That said, we need to have a rethink asap.
Though I suspect both will start 30 each still this season.
There's many weaknesses elsewhere, but such is our need to scape goat.
That said, we need to have a rethink asap.
Though I suspect both will start 30 each still this season.
You're taking a simplistic view. Everyone is aware of the overall team's deficiencies, and I doubt anyone believes that without these 2, everything would be flawless. But it's quite easy to see that they are our biggest problem (on the field - most of our problems are actually off the field), our weakest area, and 2 of the poorest CMs, and by fair the poorest CM partnership, in the league. They're not the only issue - they are the most important one, and their area should be a building block and the engine for the rest of the team, but without that, we have absolutely 0 chance. Zero.
I don’t think anybody is claiming that.
Our CM's can't pass the ball properly. I'm not sure what could be a more important factor in turning this team around. It's certainly not scapegoating.
It's a team game consisting of 11 players on the pitch at any one time. Obviously changing 2 of them won't improve the weaknesses of all 11, but when those two players are as weak as McFred it could certainly provide a significant upturn in performance in a key area of the pitch.
They aren't even scapegoats, it's a strange claim to make. Every area of the team is getting criticised and there's a consensus every position could be improved. Understandably though people are most pissed off with the two consistently poor players in a position that has been neglected for over a decade.
Maybe I’m being simplistic too but if they are the most important cause they are the biggest weakness, who one the first day of the season, we are starting with them? Which manager is going to set a team up knowing that playing them in there is going to cost us the game.
It might be the weakest technically but I think the reason they are picked is their mentality and conversely, they are probably the strongest in that regard. I think Ole played them for that reason cause he knew they wouldn’t let him down and in fairness, rarely did. For me, it was the players with the higher technical ceilings that when it matter, didn’t show up.
How many of our big players turned up against the so called big teams but how many MoTM has Fred especially had in the big games?
I disagree that they have a good mentality, especially McT. He seems very weak on the pitch, and goes hiding too often. Fred doesn't go hiding, that's fair, but he's too erratic and mistake prone to make up for that with his "mentality".
As to why we're starting with them, it's a conjunction of elements: lack of good back ups in the squad, poor recruitment this summer, and probably Ten Hag's slight weakness to go with what's been tried and tested, without realising that in this system, up against a team that presses well, they'd be even poorer than they'd shown.
Also, apologies if the use of "simplistic" appeared condescending, I realise in hindsight that could have been the case, even though that wasn't the intention.
How do they compare stat wise to the other top 6 teams?
Nah not problem my friend. For me, I understand those issues of poor recruitment etc but this isn’t new yet nearly every other position on the pitch there has been attempts to resolve this yet we are still here. I believe this is more by design than default and probably managers realise what they bring outweighs what they don’t. I’ve offered this view each season, told that I’m wrong yet we are still here. If they are that bad, then they are the easiest to replace.
I know it’s somewhat limited but I’d argue the biggest games of football we have won from Ole tenure, Scott, Fred and often both have been our midfield. Aside from DDG, there has not been any other players who have consistently played well in those games often in the running of MOTM. Not Pogs, Bruno, Harry, Rashford, Martial….
Things might look different under Erik but I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t play them more times than people think even after recruiting others…..
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This is also because we played extremely conservative football in those games, relinquishing possession, not being on the front foot, and killing teams on the counter, bypassing the midfield. It's because we were not proactive in possession in those games that we had a few shock defeats (which were deserved, in most instances, but don't really reveal anything about McFred's abilities, or lack thereof, rather).
Imagine losing Pogba and Matic, and not replacing either knowing in all likelihood they would have both been leaving in around January of last season. We’re now reliant on McFred as a starting duo in midfield to even field 11 senior professionals. What a state of a transfer club we are.
I didn’t offer a why, just offered that in my opinion that they were. You offered a style of football and why they havent got the ability to play it which I agree. For me it’s not that they aren’t good enough, it’s not good enough to play that way. People are offering the view that they are the worst midfield pairing in the league, like all the others can play the way you described too, which they can’t. In fact it’s arguable that only Liverpool and City consistently can.
The same football you described, 90% of the rest of the team couldn’t do either including DDG….
I strongly disagree on your general assessment, and I feel that you're really underestimating just how bad they are, but I think it's best we leave it at that!
Not sure. I'm guessing those stats have been produced over and over on the forum somewhere.
But I personally don't feel like I need stat comparisons. I've watched them for years and its not just a stat like pass completion that's the problem(although that is a big problem especially for McTominay).
It's weight and choice of pass, first touch, body shape etc. Intangibles.
Cool, just opinion and not trying to convince anyone to change their own. Its just funny how successive managers, very different in experience and profile sends 2 players out that fans believe will cost them to lose football matters. Not sure why the underestimate how bad they are too, which is kind of weird isn’t it. Like said, best we leave it at that….
…..without trying to be funny, what are fans seeing that managers aren’t. If it’s about choice, if Scott and Fred were injured, he have to have played others in there. If they are gonna cost us games, what’s there to lose?
Well I think the current manager does see the problem. Hence the FDJ chase and now Rabiot. Clearly he doesn't want both of them in the team.
Why Ole had so much belief in them who knows. He made a big mistake there and ultimately it cost him. We couldn't keep the ball in the opposition half under his management.
And I'm not one to go overboard about the two of them. They seem good lads, give it their all. In a different club with different expectations they might have more to offer.
wouldn‘t argue with that….
They all failed and got sacked.
Why is the only defense for these 2 always revert to "well the managers picked them?" What is it that you think they do well? Just state it.
Not sure if posted.
Came in here to post this. Usually you'd say lowlights videos can be made for anyone but this video could be made for any of their games. They are the most error prone midfield duo I've seen at a top club. Fred will inexplicably pass the ball out of play or to an opponent every game and Mctominay will lose the ball needing 5 touches to trap the ball.
The good thing is we're being linked with two CMs this window so the one game was enough for EtH to know its a rotten pairing.
So your solution is to have passion merchant's with no technical ability. Certainly has worked so far.
Statistically, Fred tends to compare well with other midfielders across most metrics. Scott on the other hand is very poor across most metrics. Comfortably in the bottom half of all midfielders throughout the top five leagues in Europe across most of them, let alone comparing him to the midfielders for the top 6 teams in the Premier League.
You can see their stats here:
Fred
Scott
Alternatively I made a thread here in February 2021 where I compared 26 of the noteworthy midfielders in the league at that point in the season. I did eventually go through and check the end of the season ratings and they hadn't changed too much. Never got around to doing last season though.
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We're in a much worse position than I thought if Scott is the standout of the squad.
The art of hiding from the ball.
Fred isn’t good enough either, but the fact that Scott is still a starter for us is mind-boggling. It’s not that he’s not good enough, it’s that he’s nowhere near good enough. And he’s 26 in a few months and has been here since the academy, never looking the part. No wonder we’re shit with decisions like that.
They don’t complement each other. They are both missing what the other one needs. Like two minus magnets where the team is supposed to stick together.
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So much pain and misery condensed into one video.
Kind of glad McTominay isn't on the field for this as no doubt he'd get the brunt of it. A different scapegoat will need to be found for today.
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you are not wrong…….
McFred looked fecking world-class against Brighton in comparison to what's on display today.
McFred supposes to be the guaranteed setup to win a game against such a component.
But, DDG made impossible reality.
But, DDG made impossible reality.
Oh, would it been worse?
"Smalling cant deal with pressing!"
"AWB cant deal with pressing!"
Actually they did.
Our midfielders cant deal with pressing. Eriksen and McTominay made the same mistakes Fred makes losing the ball being pressed in our midfield. Thats failing to deal with pressing, not finding a simple pass like AWB and Smalling did.
So thats Fred having well proven its his issue, and now Eriksen showing it was his issue today and then even McTom came on and had a loose touch and lost the ball from pressing
"AWB cant deal with pressing!"
Actually they did.
Our midfielders cant deal with pressing. Eriksen and McTominay made the same mistakes Fred makes losing the ball being pressed in our midfield. Thats failing to deal with pressing, not finding a simple pass like AWB and Smalling did.
So thats Fred having well proven its his issue, and now Eriksen showing it was his issue today and then even McTom came on and had a loose touch and lost the ball from pressing
Have there been anyone worse than these two to have played 150+ games for us?
never was, never will be