Matteo Darmian

Neither Valencia nor Darmian would be anywhere near starters at Bayern or Real or Barca....So let's work on the basis that Valenica has some defensive shortcomings but offers potential going forwards, while with Darmian it's the other way round....

Darmain showed what he can really do at the start of last season at RB if he is properly protected down the right flank ( although Mata provides nothing here ) but I don't know how much protection either of them will have from any of Mata / Rashford / Lingard / Mkhitaryan....

So I suppose I'm OK with either Valencia or Darmian depending on whether we're set up to attack or defend for any particular match....

l would have added Varela as the third option - just me, perhaps, but I really rate him and think he was the best compromise between Valencia's defensive shortcomings and Darmian's offensive shortcomings....

Like the posters in the Depay thread who insist he'll come good in the end - let's give him another season and see what happens....

Having said all that, I don't know too many other RBs who would be worth another £30 million investment at the moment over and above what we already have, and with TFM and Jones, although neither of whom are real RBs, as additional back-ups as and when....
 
Full bodied red said:
Neither Valencia nor Darmian would be anywhere near starters at Bayern or Real or Barca....So let's work on the basis that Valenica has some defensive shortcomings but offers potential going forwards, while with Darmian it's the other way round....

Darmain showed what he can really do at the start of last season at RB if he is properly protected down the right flank ( although Mata provides nothing here ) but I don't know how much protection either of them will have from any of Mata / Rashford / Lingard / Mkhitaryan....

So I suppose I'm OK with either Valencia or Darmian depending on whether we're set up to attack or defend for any particular match....

l would have added Varela as the third option - just me, perhaps, but I really rate him and think he was the best compromise between Valencia's defensive shortcomings and Darmian's offensive shortcomings....

Like the posters in the Depay thread who insist he'll come good in the end - let's give him another season and see what happens....

Having said all that, I don't know too many other RBs who would be worth another £30 million investment at the moment over and above what we already have, and with TFM and Jones, although neither of whom are real RBs, as additional back-ups as and when....
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Why wouldn't Valencia be in with a shout of starting for Barca, Real or Bayern?
 
Mark Pawelek said:
The fact he's a starter for Italy is a good reason to sell him while we can still get a price for him. Once he's spent a season as backup hardly playing he'll no longer start for Italy. I'm not urgent to get rid of him. Only if a reasonable bid came in. Talk of demanding £25m for him is silly.
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I don't think he'll get worse under Jose but better..if he plays him. He's only had a season in the Prem. In a chaotic side. I definitely don't want to see him sold.
 
Sigma said:
Why wouldn't Valencia be in with a shout of starting for Barca, Real or Bayern?
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Much as I like him, I can't and don't really rate him as a top class RB....

I suppose I look at things from the angle of if we had just Darmian / TFM / Jones, and Valencia was playing at, say, Monaco or Spurs, would we be agitating on here to sign him as the solution to our perceived RB problem...

I don't think so....
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Says everything about Valencia's critics that they can't suggest a significantly better right back than him.
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It is absence of alternatives. The market for left backs is much more substantial.. right backs are in very short supply.
 
Full bodied red said:
Much as I like him, I can't and don't really rate him as a top class RB....

I suppose I look at things from the angle of if we had just Darmian / TFM / Jones, and Valencia was playing at, say, Monaco or Spurs, would we be agitating on here to sign him as the solution to our perceived RB problem...

I don't think so....
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Probably quite the opposite. If Valencia was a potential right back signing from another club he'd be rated far higher by his detractors. Darmian was raved about before he signed but I couldn't see the fuss myself.

Also don't Barca themselves play ex Sevilla winger Vidal at right back?
 
Leftback99 said:
Probably quite the opposite. If Valencia was a potential right back signing from another club he'd be rated far higher by his detractors. Darmian was raved about before he signed but I couldn't see the fuss myself.

Also don't Barca themselves play ex Sevilla winger Vidal at right back?
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I agree with this one. Valencia is so underrated, he might not be as good as Alves, Neville, Cafu, Lahm but all right back right now aren't as good as them as well, and he would be rated higher if he's from another club. Valencia is not much different with Walker, Clyne, Coleman, Ivanovic, Sagna, Zabaleta right now. He's definitely a candidate to be in PL best XI right back. Barcelona will be happy enough to sign Valencia as their right back right now.
 
Mike09 said:
I agree with this one. Valencia is so underrated, he might not be as good as Alves, Neville, Cafu, Lahm but all right back right now aren't as good as them as well, and he would be rated higher if he's from another club. Valencia is not much different with Walker, Clyne, Coleman, Ivanovic, Sagna, Zabaleta right now. He's definitely a candidate to be in PL best XI right back. Barcelona will be happy enough to sign Valencia as their right back right now.
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The weird thing about this sentence is that it's probably true, as Valencia would be Barca's best RB.
 
pocco said:
That game against Arsenal seemed to destroy him. I remember when we signed him and a few of us thought Clyne would be a better signing and i think that's turned out to be true.
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Better than Darmian or not but Clyne is a pretty average player himself. Liverpool is probably his level.
 
Can we put to bed the myth that Valencia is a defensive liability? Been played there by SAF (at times), Moyes, Van Gaal and now Mourinho. Last season we had the best defence in the league, partly to do with our unadventurous style, but nonetheless, you don't do that with a defensive liability as part of the unit. Moreno, now that's a defensive liability.

No, Valencia isn't the best reader of the game; but his reading of it is adequate enough. He makes up for this by being fast, strong, excellent getting forward, and very good defending one on ones. You rarely see players blowing by Tony V. He'll have bad games, everyone does. But I've always rated him highly. I love our full back combo right now. If we brought someone else in, I'd like it to be someone who offers the similar type of strong running that makes space for Mata/Micki/Lingard on the right. Fabinho makes sense because he is young and could start as an understudy.

Darmian for my money just isn't Utd material. But I'm ready to be proved wrong. He's a real steady eddie, but without any standout qualities; and once the confidence has gone, he's a pretty weak option. The player he reminds me most of, from our past, is Phil Neville; but he's yet to perform as well as Phil ever did. I just appreciate his defensive flexibility to play anywhere across the back line, and look kinda gormless while doing it.
 
At the moment he's not getting into the side but after the international break when we start playing multiple games per week he will definitely get game time pointless selling him.

A long way to go but need ti think ahead to Xmas as well when we will desperately need a big squad.
 
simonhch said:
Can we put to bed the myth that Valencia is a defensive liability? Been played there by SAF (at times), Moyes, Van Gaal and now Mourinho. Last season we had the best defence in the league, partly to do with our unadventurous style, but nonetheless, you don't do that with a defensive liability as part of the unit. Moreno, now that's a defensive liability.

No, Valencia isn't the best reader of the game; but his reading of it is adequate enough. He makes up for this by being fast, strong, excellent getting forward, and very good defending one on ones. You rarely see players blowing by Tony V. He'll have bad games, everyone does. But I've always rated him highly. I love our full back combo right now. If we brought someone else in, I'd like it to be someone who offers the similar type of strong running that makes space for Mata/Micki/Lingard on the right. Fabinho makes sense because he is young and could start as an understudy.

Darmian for my money just isn't Utd material. But I'm ready to be proved wrong. He's a real steady eddie, but without any standout qualities; and once the confidence has gone, he's a pretty weak option. The player he reminds me most of, from our past, is Phil Neville; but he's yet to perform as well as Phil ever did. I just appreciate his defensive flexibility to play anywhere across the back line, and look kinda gormless while doing it.
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He's not a steady Eddie. Neither was Neville. Guys like OShea get games whereas Darmian can't be trusted at all. He's a liability for me.
 
I think he's a goner. Roma are knocking at our doors and I am pretty confident that he would rather play for them then stay as our reserve. It all depends on whether Mou can get Fabinho or not. If yes, then I can see us get rid of Darmian, Rojo and possibly Jones to recoup enough money to get Fabinho and Fonte.

What worries me is the left back role. With so many potential left backs leaving we are risking not to have any cover for Shaw. Maybe Mou think that CBJ can provide such assurance. Lets hope so
 
devilish said:
I think he's a goner. Roma are knocking at our doors and I am pretty confident that he would rather play for them then stay as our reserve. It all depends on whether Mou can get Fabinho or not. If yes, then I can see us get rid of Darmian, Rojo and possibly Jones to recoup enough money to get Fabinho and Fonte.

What worries me is the left back role. With so many potential left backs leaving we are risking not to have any cover for Shaw. Maybe Mou think that CBJ can provide such assurance. Lets hope so
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Isn't CBJ going on loan?
 
I am curious as to who is backup to RB if he leaves ?

At LB well Blind and Rojo can cover.
 
I'd like to know who's the RB everyone wants to replace Valencia?

I've always like Bellarin but even yesterday, Mussa showed, Bellarin has some weakness in defence.

I've not seen this RB we're linked with at Monaco play. But by all accounts, I've heard he's not any better at defending than Tony V.

I think Jose has had a couple of months at the club now and knows the players properly. Think he is content with the players he's got. Darmian will most likely be sold, as, as he has not been involved since the start of the season. Heck, even Rojo has been on the bench infront of him.
 
FromTheBench said:
I am curious as to who is backup to RB if he leaves ?

At LB well Blind and Rojo can cover.
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I believe that our spending spree is over and we'll have to sell before we buy. Also we're relying on others to do the necessary changes including convincing other clubs to buy our defenders on a decent fee and our players to leave. Having said that, if Mou has his way, I believe the defence would look similar to this

RB: Valencia, Fabinho
CB: Smalling, Bailly, Blind, Fonte
LB: Shaw, CBJ?

The problem will be the LB role
 
Is Fabinho even any better than Valencia or Darmian?
 
FromTheBench said:
I am curious as to who is backup to RB if he leaves ?

At LB well Blind and Rojo can cover.
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Maybe Fosu-Mensah but he is not really a RB and has hardly played in the PL yet.

If Darmian is sold then I expect that we make a move for Fabinho, and I don't think Darmian is a Mou type of defender, unless Mou rates Fosu-Mensah very highly.
 
K2K said:
I think Rojo will stay
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Me too, CBJ is on his way to Wolves on a one year loan move. Blind can cover as well, but I think Rojo will stay. If Fonte arrives then I think Jones will be allowed to leave but he is injury prone and on high wages so it might not be easy to sell him. A loan move maybe.
 
K2K said:
Isn't CBJ going on loan?
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Come to think of it you're probably right so please allow me to retract what I said. Rojo will probably stay

It make sense. Our defense will be like this. Rojo and Shaw as LB, Blind, Smalling, Bailly and Fonte as CBs and Valencia and Fabinho as RBs. Darmian and Jones will be sold, CBJ will go on loan
 
We won't sign Fabinho.TFM will be the RB along with Valencia if Darmian goes (which I doubt it).
 
Darmian is not as attacking as Valencia but is good defensively. When he first came he was good but faded shortly after. I believe this was more to do with the way we defended. Now that we defend zonal as opposed to man marking under LVG he will be far better, even Valencia looks better defensively this season and I'm sure Darmian will too.
 
red thru&thru said:
I'd like to know who's the RB everyone wants to replace Valencia?

I've always like Bellarin but even yesterday, Mussa showed, Bellarin has some weakness in defence.

I've not seen this RB we're linked with at Monaco play. But by all accounts, I've heard he's not any better at defending than Tony V.

I think Jose has had a couple of months at the club now and knows the players properly. Think he is content with the players he's got. Darmian will most likely be sold, as, as he has not been involved since the start of the season. Heck, even Rojo has been on the bench infront of him.
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I think Yedlin would be a great signing. Spurs would probably sell cause they have Walker and Trippier there.

Other options... Uchida from Schalke, Lichtsteiner from Juve and Florenzi from Roma. I'd have Rafael back too.
 
Jaybomb said:
I think Yedlin would be a great signing. Spurs would probably sell cause they have Walker and Trippier there.

Other options... Uchida from Schalke, Lichtsteiner from Juve and Florenzi from Roma. I'd have Rafael back too.
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I was looking for the white text after those suggestions, but strangely I couldn't find it.
 
Raoul said:
He's a good player defensively, but I don't get the impression he is what Mourinho wants going forward.
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wiz4231 said:
Darmian is not as attacking as Valencia but is good defensively. When he first came he was good but faded shortly after. I believe this was more to do with the way we defended. Now that we defend zonal as opposed to man marking under LVG he will be far better, even Valencia looks better defensively this season and I'm sure Darmian will too.
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Myth, myth, myth, myth . . .

Just go back and watch the PSV match, what Pelle did to him, the first half against Arsenal, his first ten minutes off the bench against Spuds . . . thee most embarrassing defender I´ve ever seen at United. Unbelievable how this myth still gets propagated.
 
I was a fan of Darmian after he took over from Valencia's positioning nightmares at the start of last season. But he is slow, and can be bullied. Val can usually recover from his initial blunder.
And these last 3 games Valencia hasn't been caught out by an aerial ball or someone lurking at the back post, which was the main advantage Darmian had over him (positioning, situational awareness).
 
berbatrick said:
I was a fan of Darmian after he took over from Valencia's positioning nightmares at the start of last season. But he is slow, and can be bullied. Val can usually recover from his initial blunder.
And these last 3 games Valencia hasn't been caught out by an aerial ball or someone lurking at the back post, which was the main advantage Darmian had over him (positioning, situational awareness).
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Took over from Valencia?? He was gifted his starting roll from the beginning and slowly turned into a nightmare and would´ve lost his job before mid season had it not been for Valencia´s injury. We probably would´ve been in the Champions League if not for Valencia´s untimely injury
 
Nobby style said:
Took over from Valencia?? He was gifted his starting roll from the beginning and slowly turned into a nightmare and would´ve lost his job before mid season had it not been for Valencia´s injury. We probably would´ve been in the Champions League if not for Valencia´s untimely injury
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Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, Valencia has had plenty of awful games at RB. Once I was asked for a list of his mistakes, I made it based on memory and was told that "every defender does the same". Unfortunately no one keeps a video of positioning errors, players who lurk behind you while you stroll about, jogging back from the opponent's half while the ball is in the RB zone, unnecessary fouls...Val has the full lot too. In fact there is a DDG saves video, so many of them you can see the move became dangerous since Valencia had no idea where the danger was.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I was looking for the white text after those suggestions, but strangely I couldn't find it.
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Why would I be joking? All of them are solid players.

There's not many quality RBs in the world who would be available. I suppose Coleman would be a good shout. Seems like a Mourinho player.
 
berbatrick said:
I was a fan of Darmian after he took over from Valencia's positioning nightmares at the start of last season. But he is slow, and can be bullied. Val can usually recover from his initial blunder.
And these last 3 games Valencia hasn't been caught out by an aerial ball or someone lurking at the back post, which was the main advantage Darmian had over him (positioning, situational awareness).
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He was caught out massively by Redmond on Friday, but luckily not punished for it. It happens once or twice a game.
 
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