Mats Hummels

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K2K said:
I am talking post Berbatov.

United have been interested in many a Spurs player since then. They arent getting any.
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Many? No.

United have been interested in Modric and Bale, they both joined Real madrid, the richest and most glamorous club on earth, United never matched Real on the market. And there is a big difference like @Crossie said, we are talking about german players, bavarian players, ex-bayern players joining the biggest german team, german players will only leave Germany if Bayern don't want them.

PS: As for Lewandowski, he was after the dollars and Bayern added their competitiveness in the balance.
 
K2K said:
But would he have refused to go if those offers were from decent La liga or EPL sides though?

Thats the main gist of the argument here. The BVB players are proper quality. They would be chased by the biggest sides in the world. Yes a player might like Bavaria more, but if he knows that Dortmund arent budging and and he has a few years on his contract, with Real or Barca showing interest, Hes more likely to be receptive to such a sale.
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He had offers from english clubs but he refused to go, he wanted to stay. IIRC Newcastle.
 
K2K said:
I am talking post Berbatov.

United have been interested in many a Spurs player since then. They arent getting any.
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Very few though (understandably): Modric, Bale, Kane, LLoris (if De Gea goes. I am not sure whether Lloris is top of the list). Other just click-bait rumors like Townsend, Walker, Lennon, Sandro...

Of Modric and Bale, clearly the players didn't set their sight firmly on United as primary destination and have many options; and Spurs prefers to offload them overseas. So I agree that player does hold some power in choosing their destination. However, it's shame Bayern is always viewed as the hottest trend in German players/ players' eyes whom love the Germany culture. Bayern is uniquely dominating this way in all of the big leagues until PSG recent transformation.
 
JPRouve said:
They can't do that though, unless you think that Dortmund shouldn't sign german players?

As for the two years thing, Lyon spent 3 years trying to sell Gomis, they negociated and agreed on two deals one in Russia and an other one in Turkey both behind his back and he refused to go. At the end of the day players do what they want.
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They can sign players and a player should know that it's impossible to join Bayern directly from Dortmund. It's not as if they sign a contract and the surprise will suddenly be revealed in some evil plan sort of way.
Again would Hummels risk being fazed out for two season to join Bayern or would he have left for England last summer?
Having a policy of not selling to a direct rival isn't this big revolutionary concept
 
The really funny thing is that Hummels would be the the first player to be actually sold to Bayern. Judging by the comments here Dortmund gift away players to them every transfer window.
 
cyberman said:
They can sign players and a player should know that it's impossible to join Bayern directly from Dortmund. It's not as if they sign a contract and the surprise will suddenly be revealed in some evil plan sort of way.
Again would Hummels risk being fazed out for two season to join Bayern or would he have left for England last summer?
Having a policy of not selling to a direct rival isn't this big revolutionary concept
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And then no one signs for Dortmund, they will go to Leverkusen, Wolfsburg or Schalke. Or they will only sign if Dortmund includes a buyout clause.
 
Kinda weird that the only competition for bayern keep losing their best players to them that way, and the bastards don't even pay that much for those players anyway.
 
JPRouve said:
And then no one signs for Dortmund, they will go to Leverkusen, Wolfsburg or Schalke. Or they will only sign if Dortmund includes a buyout clause.
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But Dortmund would be signing these players from those clubs. Stay where you are and hope Bayern come one day or come here to Dortmund where we believe in you.
For all that Bayern are they can only play with 11 players.
 
cyberman said:
But Dortmund would be signing these players from those clubs. Stay where you are and hope Bayern come one day or come here to Dortmund where we believe in you.
For all that Bayern are they can only play with 11 players.
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Dortmund barely signs players from those clubs, they only signed Castro. And Dortmund aren't a lot richer than those clubs, they can sign the same players for the same amount and for the same wages than Dortmund.
 
JPRouve said:
Dortmund barely signs players from those clubs, they only signed Castro. And Dortmund aren't a lot richer than those clubs, they can sign the same players for the same amount and for the same wages than Dortmund.
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Reus and Ginter were signed from rivals (somewhat) Subotic as well? There are a few in that squad.
 
JPRouve said:
Dortmund barely signs players from those clubs, they only signed Castro. And Dortmund aren't a lot richer than those clubs, they can sign the same players for the same amount and for the same wages than Dortmund.
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Well, we do pay more than most clubs, but not by a wide margin.

This whole discussion is way too general anyway. You have to look at the three cases separatively:

Götze left via a release clause, which was a clear demand on his part to extend his original contract (until 2014). The result of that deal was a clear policy against release clauses in general to prevent exactly that.

Lewandowski left as free agent and was originally signed at a time (2010) where we simply could not demand from players to rule out certain future clubs.

Hummels was signed from Bayern itself back in 2008. Us demanding from him to not choose Bayern (who according to himself were not even an opton for him anymore back then) when he signed his new contract 2012 (five years without clause, which was kind of a big deal) was simply not doable.

People need to understand, that we became as financially potent just over the last few years with excellent management and the involvement of share holders. All three contracts basically originated from a different era.
 
cyberman said:
Reus and Ginter were signed from rivals (somewhat) Subotic as well? There are a few in that squad.
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I don't really understand your argument here, they signed players from german teams, but they didn't signed players from the teams I mentioned and I mentioned those teams because they are in the same financial bracket, Gladbach and Freiburg aren't.
 
cyberman said:
Reus and Ginter were signed from rivals (somewhat) Subotic as well? There are a few in that squad.
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Reus has roots in Dortmund, which clearly influenced this deal (it was also via a release clause, same with Castro). Ginter, Subotic and a few other came from German clubs, but certainly not rivals.
 
Dortmund are one step above the other 16 teams both in prestige and in wages by now, but that's only relevant for some players.
 
Sphaero said:
Well, we do pay more than most clubs, but not by a wide margin.

This whole discussion is way too general anyway. You have to look at the three cases separatively:

Götze left via a release clause, which was a clear demand on his part to extend his original contract (until 2014). The result of that deal was a clear policy against release clauses in general to prevent exactly that.

Lewandowski left as free agent and was originally signed at a time (2010) where we simply could not demand from players to rule out certain future clubs.

Hummels was signed from Bayern itself back in 2008. Us demanding from him to not choose Bayern (who according to himself were not even an opton for him anymore back then) when he signed his new contract 2012 (five years without clause, which was kind of a big deal) was simply not doable.

People need to understand, that we became as financially potent just over the last few years with excellent management and the involvement of share holders. All three contracts basically originated from a different era.
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I understand and agree that in those cases Dortmund can't be blamed, but I don't even think that Dortmund can realistically force their will on german players when Bayern is in the balance.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't really understand your argument here, they signed players from german teams, but they didn't signed players from the teams I mentioned and I mentioned those teams because they are in the same financial bracket, Gladbach and Freiburg aren't.
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You cant really set the goalposts as those being Dortmunds rivals when they're not though? Theyre not as well run nor have they the structre Dortmund have.
It's not as if Dortmund would be starting from scratch with everybody being level.
 
cyberman said:
You cant really set the goalposts as those being Dortmunds rivals when they're not though? Theyre not as well run nor have they the structre Dortmund have.
It's not as if Dortmund would be starting from scratch with everybody being level.
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I didn't put any goalposts and didn't mentioned the word rival.

I said that the players will have the possibility to avoid Dortmund and sign for those clubs.
 
Wow this is actually a bit of a shock to me. I never expected Hummels to stay at Dortmund but I genuinely thought he'd move to a foreign club instead of Bayern. Talk about a punch in the face.
 
Green_Red said:
Why go to Bayern? Would he even get into the starting 11?
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not if anyone bothers to ask me :D

he is a top defender no less, don't get me wrong. He has the skill-set.

for me, his top assets that make him crucial for BVB: Leadership. Playmaking skill. Battering Ram in tight games.
now, which of those are in demand at Bayern.

He also is a top defender, no doubt. But so are Badstuber and especially Boateng, who is a key player in Bayerns current style. At Bayern, defence is narrowed down to an absolute minimum in favor of having the advantage in midfield (line of three, one of which is either Alaba or Alonso). CBs will face 1:1s *a lot* and are required to be faultless in distribution. Boateng is the very definition of this, as is Badstuber to a certain extent. Hummels? dunno. He's more like a sweeper-playmaker. Playmakers Bayern already have.
 
So Dortmund are still a selling club. One of their fans got so pissed off at me for saying this on a FB banter page. Isn't it true? Second best and biggest team in Germany with the biggest ground and can't hold on to their star players
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Very likely that Hummels' first game for Bayern Munich will be against BVB in Dortmund :lol:

Dortmund should replace Hummels and Subotic (He'll surely leave too) with Tah and Dragovic.
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Subotic doesn't need a replacement and Tah probably won't be available.
 
Sphaero said:
I don´t see him playing for us in any way, btw. What a sad end for a player who spend his whole professional career with us until now.
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What do you mean by that? Do you think he won't play again for Dortmund this season? I'd actually like that, he certainly doesn't deserve to captain your team in the cup final against us. That would be idiotic. I hope he plays in Berlin though and I hope both fan groups turn on him.
 
Many Dortmund fans are upset about their best players leaving for Bayern, which is fair enough. However, they should not forget that without Bayern, Dortmund mighn't have even stayed in the league given that Bayern bailed them out of some deep money troubles back in 2004. It will be hard to replace Hummels if the rumours are true.
 
Hummels getting arsey about the fans being pissed off about their captain wanting to go to their rivals has a touch of Larry David's "I know, but I didn’t like the implication!" about it.
 
He knew what he is/was doing.

Can't be angry about the tears when you caused them Mats.
 
TitusCrumble said:
Many Dortmund fans are upset about their best players leaving for Bayern, which is fair enough. However, they should not forget that without Bayern, Dortmund mighn't have even stayed in the league given that Bayern bailed them out of some deep money troubles back in 2004. It will be hard to replace Hummels if the rumours are true.
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My god, is this stupid myth still not dead? This so called bail out was a 2 Mil. € credit in connection with the Thorsten Frings deal in 2004. It was absolutely a helpful gesture, but it certainly did not save the club, which becomes very clear when you look at the complete debt of the club at that time, which was around 200 Mil. €.

It was supposed to buy the club some time but infact it just prolonged the inevitable, which was the near insolvency in March 2005, when everything came down to a vote of the shareholders of the Mosliris investment fond (majority owner of the Westfalenstadium at that time). The two options were either entering insolvency (which would have included the club selling nearly all assets and the loss of the league license) or agreeing to a rehabilitation concept designed by CEO Watzke, which held major financial risks for the fond holder.

They stil voted for the latter, though, which saved the club. In the following years several other parties helped with the financial rehabilitation of the club: The two local companies EVONIK (kit sponsor) and Signal Iduna (official nameholder of the stadium), which payed way over the odds for their deals for years, lifelong BVB supporter Bernd Geske who bought and still owns a huge number of shares or the US bank Morgan Stanley, which granted the club in 2006 a major credit (80 Mil. €) under very good conditions to name a few.

This whole "bail out" story was just an attempt by Bayerns criminal former president to gather some sympathy and make a great headline. Again nice gesture back then, very little impact in the grand sheme of things.



As for Hummels, if he truly thinks it was only a minority who showed dissatisfication today, he needs to have his ears checked. I was in the stadium and there was nearly no one who did not at least boo him everytime he touched the ball. He really handles this whole situation with as little grace as possible.
 
It's quite funny how Hummels apparently didn't have time to face the public about his transfer request yet, but immediately responded when Hoeneß disputed his prefrerred narrative.
 
What a dick. For a country whose people put the wander in wanderlust their footballers leave me fairly perplexed what with their reluctance to play abroad.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
What a dick. For a country whose people put the wander in wanderlust their footballers leave me fairly perplexed what with their reluctance to play abroad.
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Surely that's the same with all of the countries in the top 4/5 leagues though? British players rarely move abroad. Spanish/Latin players are more likely to stay in/go to La Liga than anywhere else. Italians prefer Serie A, judging by the lack of Italian players not in Italy.
 
How have Gotze and Lewandowski been received when they returned with Bayern?
 
To hell with this guy. I can understand if Dortmund were playing rubbish but they are doing really well and might even challenge for the title next year and are back in the champions league. And he's the captain. Atleast go to a foreign club.
 
prarek said:
To hell with this guy. I can understand if Dortmund were playing rubbish but they are doing really well and might even challenge for the title next year and are back in the champions league. And he's the captain. Atleast go to a foreign club.
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That's footballers for you. They don't care about anyone but themselves.
 
Sphaero said:
My god, is this stupid myth still not dead? This so called bail out was a 2 Mil. € credit in connection with the Thorsten Frings deal in 2004. It was absolutely a helpful gesture, but it certainly did not save the club, which becomes very clear when you look at the complete debt of the club at that time, which was around 200 Mil. €.

It was supposed to buy the club some time but infact it just prolonged the inevitable, which was the near insolvency in March 2005, when everything came down to a vote of the shareholders of the Mosliris investment fond (majority owner of the Westfalenstadium at that time). The two options were either entering insolvency (which would have included the club selling nearly all assets and the loss of the league license) or agreeing to a rehabilitation concept designed by CEO Watzke, which held major financial risks for the fond holder.

They stil voted for the latter, though, which saved the club. In the following years several other parties helped with the financial rehabilitation of the club: The two local companies EVONIK (kit sponsor) and Signal Iduna (official nameholder of the stadium), which payed way over the odds for their deals for years, lifelong BVB supporter Bernd Geske who bought and still owns a huge number of shares or the US bank Morgan Stanley, which granted the club in 2006 a major credit (80 Mil. €) under very good conditions to name a few.

This whole "bail out" story was just an attempt by Bayerns criminal former president to gather some sympathy and make a great headline. Again nice gesture back then, very little impact in the grand sheme of things.



As for Hummels, if he truly thinks it was only a minority who showed dissatisfication today, he needs to have his ears checked. I was in the stadium and there was nearly no one who did not at least boo him everytime he touched the ball. He really handles this whole situation with as little grace as possible.
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This. And instead of paying for Lewandolski transfer, Bayern was happy to wait for a year and got him for free. I got at least 20 mil striker for free. They're good business man, nevertheless, so those 2 mill bail out was more of PR stunt in the big picture. Should Dortmund sacrifice their best players every year to other club if they did the same?
 
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