I remember him as really carrying us, crescendoing to the final, but not sure I can't really put my finger on other performances.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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The problem with this setup isSigning Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits FDJ profile. Instead of playing with 4231 double pivot, ETH might play 433 with one no 6 and two no 8. We see this changing formation in his Ajax team when FDJ left.
The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball. It‘s the keeper, two CB, a DM, and the two full backs the ones who got involved in this and if ETH uses this same system then we will rely on those 6 positions to retain possession or recycle the ball. Among these 6 players, Alvarez is the one being assigned to play more simple passes and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (see below stats), this suitable to Casemiro who is not a press resistance so I think we will see a different role in Casemiro next season in comparison to this season.
I think our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. Our full backs will cover the half space and sometime swap position with the wingers. So this is where I see Mount might be perfect to play in this set up and system because we will get to utilise his strength to do high press, scoring goals and assists.
I took pictures of these FBref end of last season so this is based on 21/22 season.
Casemiro is a limited passwr
Our right backs aren’t particularly great on the ball
You’d basically need a Lahmesque fullback who along with Shaw would take the playmaking pressure off Casemiero. Feels like a lot of trouble to create a new problem.
Defensive wise we'll be just as good with Caicedo-Casemiro as Rice-Casemiro. It's like choosing between Essien or Keane to partner Casemiro, both options are huge additions for the 6 or 8 role.
Would you take Lukaku back? What you think of Scott McTominay? I ask because plenty of managers seem to have wanted Lukaku and many of our managers believed in McTominay. William was another player who always seemed to he signed or desired by big teams including Barcelona. Must be class
Wasn’t the free kick against Arsenal? It was a last minute winner, everyone expected Ronaldo to smash it and Hargreaves just clipped it in
Nicky Butt was an academy player on low/reasonable wages. If we buy someone for 80-100 mil on high wages then it will most definitely not be as backup.
Sorry, Arsenal, extremely similar one he did against fulham!Wasn’t the free kick against Arsenal? It was a last minute winner, everyone expected Ronaldo to smash it and Hargreaves just clipped it in
Nobody thinks that actually.
This is a forum. And this is a thread where people are discussing the pros and cons of Mount and trying to understand what ETH maybe planning. Which is what a forum is for.
You are free to avoid this thread and forum for that matter.
You just blindly defend everything United do. A forum clearly isn't suited to you
Possibly the point was “back-up” is a loose term. Butt was not generally regarded as being first choice but played more or less the same number of games as Keane and Scholes. If Rice is getting the same amount of games as Case, is he really “back-up”?
Judging by some of the posts, clearly they do.
I can see it from both sides actually, but when it's clear that because Mason isn't a shiny name that he isn't suited to us. Nor will he make the team better, when judging from various posts on here and videos he will make us much better than we currently are.
English fans like to shit on their own players, it's a fact. A large portion of the forum didn't want Tripper and he's turned out to be one of the best RB's in the league and he'd walk into our starting 11.
Would he play centrally then? Seems a serious upgrade on Sabitzer and maybe Eriksen? If it can be done for sensible money sounds great.
But he's not the position we need most, so hopefully can prioritise that.
But he's not the position we need most, so hopefully can prioritise that.
Mason mount is on 80k a week.
And he wants 250k at Chelsea thats why contract negotiations broke down.
The reason he's not extended at Chelsea is because he thinks he should be on similar wages to James.
And he wants 250k at Chelsea thats why contract negotiations broke down.
He won't get that if a fee is involved. Maybe he'll get 160k buy that's it
First of all there is a reason why I put RB and GK, it means we need new RB and new GK to play ten Hag system regardless.
Second, this system actually suitable for Casemiro. In that post, I posted Alvarez FBref stats in 21/22 season. You can see his passing attempts and his passing progressive are far less than the defenders. But he made more defensive attribute than the defenders. This indicates that he was assigned to play it simple and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (which suitable for player who is limited passer or not press resistance), but off the ball he does the most defensive works in the team.
Probably should. James is barely available. Up until this season Mount is almost always available. And he has been voted player of the year at Chelsea twice. When they were actually good.
You're completely removing context, which makes your argument disingenuous.
Trippier moved for less than £15m, yet when he was linked with us, it was close to £40m. It's pretty much a carbon copy of the situation. No one is saying he wouldn't be better than Fred or Mctominay, but why on earth should we spend 50m+ and make him one of our top earners.
That was Chelsea's own fault though, rushing him back from a knee injury and shock, he broke down. James is by far a superior player in his respective position.
Signing Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits FDJ profile. Instead of playing with 4231 double pivot, ETH might play 433 with one no 6 and two no 8. We see this changing formation in his Ajax team when FDJ left.
The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball. It‘s the keeper, two CB, a DM, and the two full backs the ones who got involved in this and if ETH uses this same system then we will rely on those 6 positions to retain possession or recycle the ball. Among these 6 players, Alvarez is the one being assigned to play more simple passes and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (see below stats), this suitable to Casemiro who is not a press resistance so I think we will see a different role in Casemiro next season in comparison to this season.
I think our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. Our full backs will cover the half space and sometime swap position with the wingers. So this is where I see Mount might be perfect to play in this set up and system because we will get to utilise his strength to do high press, scoring goals and assists.
I took pictures of these FBref end of last season so this is based on 21/22 season.
Great post.
Would be curious to see people reaction in here on a player like Winjaldum in 2016 when Klopp signed him.
I don’t see why he shouldn’t. What’s James done that he hasn’t.
Sounds like a Chelsea problem.
We've been playing like that recently. Look at the last game, in the first half it was Casemiro by himself deep with Eriksen and Bruno behind Martial. It's especially noticeable when Malacia plays because he comes into the midfield a lot more than Shaw does, whereas Shaw plays on the touchline more.
Which makes it our problem if we want to sign him. Reece James is on 250k a week, he's not going to accept less to come to us.
Be pretty inarguably one of the best players in the world at his position?
If a high fee is involved he's getting 200k+ with the added signing on bonus
That doesn’t seem like Mounts problem though?
I’d also argue James has been injury prone long before he tried rushing himself back for the World Cup
I don't really care about Mount's earnings potential, I care about how much we pay our players. He'd be earning more than Rashford if we signed him on his desired wage, even equal to rashford would be over paying.
@devilish exaggerated to make some point. Butt may have played a similar amount of games to Becks and Keane, but the more accurate stat is: Becks and Keane started 33 league games while Butt started 22. Overall Butt started 34 games while the other two started 53.
Now you see the difference. Scholes was closer to Butt’s numbers with 38 starts but he was also from the academy. Totally different context/situation. If we now buy Mount and Rice for big money + wages (yes both will demand high wages), then they will be starters.
IIRC Wijnaldum was a highly rated prospect in Holland and had a good season at Newcastle before that move. He was athletically much superior and a far stronger 8 than Mount, not to mention a lower cost option in transfer fees and wages even if it was 6 years ago.
In fact a Wijnaldum today would make much more sense for us compared to Mount, whose best abilities are more off the ball and going forward in advanced positions. I would be extremely surprised if Mount can consistently get close to his best season in terms of goals and assists for a team where he's not the main man (i.e favoured by a manager).
He's not as good as 'good' Fred but he's definitely better than then other version
Wijnaldum was a winger back then before he got converted. They are actually not that far off, both have an engine and Mount doesn't exactly get shoved off the ball. He'll be doing the leg work like Fred was supposed to, without the chaos. Mount is good in many things without being a standout, it'll be interesting to see if ETH really wants him.
Hargreaves was injured, United took a gamble on him that didn't work out, when he was fit he was a very good player, flexible as well, he played several games as a RB
Not a fan of this signing really unless it's a very cheap squad signing, he'd basically be an upgrade on Van De Beek. His best position is Bruno's position.
Don't see a midfield of Casemiro-Mount-Bruno being particularly great.
There's 2 profiles of partner for Casemiro, a FDJ type with exceptional technical abiltiy as a deep lying playmaker, or someone with the physical qualities and engine to cover for Casemiro's potential ageing legs, like a Caicedo. The dream scenario we'd sign both types. Don't see how Mount's qualities fit into either of those profiles though.
He's a player who seems to just let games drift given the position he plays in he's meant to be a difference maker. To play what is fundamentally an attacking role in an elite side, you need some serious talent and/or productivity, it's not enough to be "functional".
Don't see a midfield of Casemiro-Mount-Bruno being particularly great.
There's 2 profiles of partner for Casemiro, a FDJ type with exceptional technical abiltiy as a deep lying playmaker, or someone with the physical qualities and engine to cover for Casemiro's potential ageing legs, like a Caicedo. The dream scenario we'd sign both types. Don't see how Mount's qualities fit into either of those profiles though.
He's a player who seems to just let games drift given the position he plays in he's meant to be a difference maker. To play what is fundamentally an attacking role in an elite side, you need some serious talent and/or productivity, it's not enough to be "functional".
Sounds like your opinion only. He’s a very good player but has zero accolades for what you are claiming.
I mean, I don't really think it's contentious to say that Reece James is better than Mason Mount? Anyone who watches Chelsea regularly will attest to how much more important James is.
Vinicius said James was the best RB he's ever come up against - struggling to think of anyone who's said anything similar about Mount.
This place has gone from "Mount is Championship level" to "he's as good as Reece James".
All it took was him to be linked to Man United.
All it took was him to be linked to Man United.
I just find it weird how the best right back in the world can’t get a regular spot for England or fails to make the best RB in the league continuously. But I’m supposed to be delusional for someone thinking another Chelsea regular wants to be in the same wages.
It’s depressing seeing us constantly being linked with him. He will not elevate us to the next level. He’s Mctominay level.
Is James even at his best as a right back? Might be a big claim for someone that's often a wing back. It's a slightly different game. Comparable but not exactly the same.
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