In the States they're WAY more forgiving. A big Pittsburgh sports personality (Ben Roethlisberger) was accused of rape in a casino in 2008. It never did a thing to his career and he will be a first ballet Hall of Hamer and his number retired and yadda yadda. Hell, Kobe Bryant was accused of rape. Nothing happened. A player I saw frequently, named Pacman Jones, beat several partners, beat strippers, caused a near riot in a strip club with multiple people being shot point blank..and he now is a member of one of, if not the most successful sports programs in America that just got picked up by ESPN and will make millions. Michael Jordan had a severe gambling issue and has been accused of beating his then wife. Ray Lewis stabbed and murdered a man in Miami years ago. Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning touchdown then shot himself in the leg with an illegal firearm in a strip club afterwards. Adrian Peterson proudly stated he still beats his children with a switch a few years ago. Michael Irvine CUT A TEAMMATES THROAT during team haircut session and he's in the Hall of Fame and is all over American sports TV during the NFL season. Michael Vick operated a dog fighting ring and euthanized many dogs on his property. After a short prison sentence he returned to the NFL and made millions and got many more sponsorships. Lawrence Taylor got arrested just about every single off-season for drugs and beating prostitutes but he got to finish his Hall of Fame career on his terms in New York. There's so, so, so many instances of this that it's news for about 4 hours and Americans just forget about it.
It's way more uncommon for a squeaky clean athlete to thrive in America. It's almost part of their redemption story. Americans love a second chance story.
Much more potential in Garnacho because he has better speed and acceleration. Key attributes in forwards, more so than ever.Disagree but that's just my opinion. He was an elite talent, Garnacho is not on his level unfortunately.
Amad when fit will be an option off the right, we'll get a backup striker in once martial is offloaded and we've currently got a dearth of 2nd strikers/no10s.So who's replacing our most promising academy graduate now so? I am willing to bet my kidneys we are not signing his replacement.
Cant stand that idiot Carl Anka either. They asked him his initial thoughts about the Athletic piece when it broke the other day and he said something about just donating to a womens charity. Fair enough but the way and place he said it was like "Look at me and how good a person I am"
The leaks do not paint the club in a good light, infact it sent a tailspin of uproar how they were conducting things. Staff threatening to walk, charities labelled hostile etcIt’s a well worked PR strategy to leak a story and guage reaction before making a final decision.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the original decision was leaked purposefully to The Athletic to get an idea of how people would respond.
Great post hereThe wording of each of the statements is interesting and quite instructive in their own ways. They read, naturally enough, like the 5th or 6th draft worked on by several teams of lawyers. I've added bits in bold which stood out to me.
No one wrecked his career but himself.
Saudi won't want the bad publicity.
His talent is probably long gone, I'd be amazed if he came back to a good level. Also, was too slow for the very top level anyway.
The Athletic said the following:
“They debated whether to loan out or sell Greenwood, or attempt to cut ties with the 21-year-old altogether — though this would present legal challenges given the club do not consider, following the findings of an internal investigation, that they have grounds to terminate his contract.”
https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn/?source=user_shared_article
Being a Pittsburgh guy, I'm sort of hardwired to hate anything Baltimore related, but I find it disgusting that the Ravens still welcome Ray Rice to their practices and training camps.I have no doubt that America is more accepting of this stuff, but those examples, from what I know, are all at least a decade old. A lot has changed socially in that time.
You do have a very similar example to the Kobe one with Ronaldo and you can see how that went. Unfortunately the level of superstar makes a difference.
But why pay off his contract when they could let him go for gross misconduct…?
Seems very odd to purposely and actively go out of their way to declare him innocent, when they simply could’ve stated that after conducting their investigation Utd have decided to part ways with the player.
Whole thing is just utterly bizarre, and reads like they spent 6 months investigating it, found him to be innocent (which they’ve stated), tried to bring him back and then back tracked because Adam Crafter and Rachel Riley kicked off about it.
It’s very difficult to see it as anything other than that whether you wanted him gone or back at Utd.
I’m referencing the extremes. Also how disproportionate reactions has been throughout this saga, dependent on camp.Important not to conflate these two things, as they're very different.
The club have said they believe he didn't commit the crime. All the CPS said was that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.
You could disbelieve the club (i.e. think Greenwood is guilty) without in any way doubting the CPS (i.e. agree that without witness co-operation a conviction was unlikely to happen and there was little point proceeding).
Also says the club isn't ruling out a return in the future following a loan.
And that his girlfriend didn't attend an interview with the club but her mum did.
His talent is probably long gone, I'd be amazed if he came back to a good level. Also, was too slow for the very top level anyway.
The only reason? I gave you a couple.
You just want to blame everyone but the actual people responsible.
“In the end, the club confirmed on Monday that they would work with the player to continue his career elsewhere and the club say they do not expect an eventuality where a loan move leads to the player representing United again in the future."
In regards to the girlfriend - it says she chose not to attend but was aware of the process with her parents - namely her mother
Fergie disagrees! And SAF certainly knows strikers!
They never said “we can’t prove hes guilty” but carry onWhat do you mean be forced to stand by it
By who?
All they’ve done is helped him to leave the club, saying we don’t know wouldn’t help him.
People will read “we can’t prove he’s innocent” not “we can’t prove he’s guilty”
I’m not saying they didThey never said “we can’t prove hes guilty” but carry on
I have not seen them be scrutinised for their validity by law enforcement.Have you not seen the text messages?
I guess the argument is that Rice has addressed it a lot and done work for domestic abuse charities.Being a Pittsburgh guy, I'm sort of hardwired to hate anything Baltimore related, but I find it disgusting that the Ravens still welcome Ray Rice to their practices and training camps.
Actually thinking about this, Greenwood and Rice share a lot of similar particulars.
Rice punched his then fiancé (they are now 'happily' married with two children...sound like Mason and his lady a bit?) in the face and dragged her out of an elevator, all captured on CCTV. The Ravens immediately cut him the next day. I believe that was 2014. Young, promising player, like Greenwood, striking his partner with clear proof. Yet both females never left, and now Mason's partner is having his child, just like with Ray Rice. But Baltimore allows him to come back to the facility and he voluntarily coaches during their offseason programs and practices.
Can't imagine what would happen if Mason rocked up a decade from now and was coaching players during the preseason.
Some clubs are shitty but not all. Slava Voynov beat up his wife and the Kings (NHL) benched him immediately, reviewed the evidence, then released him. Without him they were a man short and didn’t make the playoffs - but they decided it was worth it to make a stand. The NFL is a cesspool. As for Kobe, I am still shocked he got away with it.In the States they're WAY more forgiving. A big Pittsburgh sports personality (Ben Roethlisberger) was accused of rape in a casino in 2008. It never did a thing to his career and he will be a first ballet Hall of Hamer and his number retired and yadda yadda. Hell, Kobe Bryant was accused of rape. Nothing happened. A player I saw frequently, named Pacman Jones, beat several partners, beat strippers, caused a near riot in a strip club with multiple people being shot point blank..and he now is a member of one of, if not the most successful sports programs in America that just got picked up by ESPN and will make millions. Michael Jordan had a severe gambling issue and has been accused of beating his then wife. Ray Lewis stabbed and murdered a man in Miami years ago. Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning touchdown then shot himself in the leg with an illegal firearm in a strip club afterwards. Adrian Peterson proudly stated he still beats his children with a switch a few years ago. Michael Irvine CUT A TEAMMATES THROAT during team haircut session and he's in the Hall of Fame and is all over American sports TV during the NFL season. Michael Vick operated a dog fighting ring and euthanized many dogs on his property. After a short prison sentence he returned to the NFL and made millions and got many more sponsorships. Lawrence Taylor got arrested just about every single off-season for drugs and beating prostitutes but he got to finish his Hall of Fame career on his terms in New York. There's so, so, so many instances of this that it's news for about 4 hours and Americans just forget about it.
It's way more uncommon for a squeaky clean athlete to thrive in America. It's almost part of their redemption story. Americans love a second chance story.
Wonder why she didn't want to attend?
On a technicality they could have done it under "Frustration of contract".The Athletic said the following:
“They debated whether to loan out or sell Greenwood, or attempt to cut ties with the 21-year-old altogether — though this would present legal challenges given the club do not consider, following the findings of an internal investigation, that they have grounds to terminate his contract.”
https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn/?source=user_shared_article
I have no doubt that America is more accepting of this stuff, but those examples, from what I know, are all at least a decade old. A lot has changed socially in that time.
You do have a very similar example to the Kobe one with Ronaldo and you can see how that went. Unfortunately the level of superstar makes a difference.
Fergie disagrees! And SAF certainly knows strikers!
They never said “we can’t prove hes innocent” eitherI’m not saying they did
Read again
On a football level (rare in this thread) I disagree; Greenwood was a generational talent. Im not 100% sure Garnacho will be that elite level player. He is very talented and I really like him, and maybe I'm wrong, but I felt Greenwood was really a different level.Much more potential in Garnacho because he has better speed and acceleration. Key attributes in forwards, more so than ever.
Fergie signed Manucho.
