Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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My apologies, I didn't mean to offend anyone with the expression ceteris paribus.

Since the tribunal stoped the case the second chance has already been given. In society, but also regarding Getafe and whoever next.

If not prosecuted, the presumption of innocence exists for a reason. I have not followed the Antony case in detail since I do not understand Portuguese and do not read the Brazilian boulevard press, but this also applies to him. If we start to opportunistically accept or deny allegations when it suits us, we loose all credibility. Hence my point, the question about how to deal with legally innocent actors that may or may not committed crimes should not be limited to MG, but instead englobe all our players. While one should apparently never wear our colours again, others are listed in our hall of fame (see: https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/legends). I hate to see double standards depending on what ManUtd player we are talking about.

Long story short, for me, I reduce the complexity and accept that in the UK he is innocent.

If the club prefers to sell, I encourage ManUtd to communicate the reasons in order to take a stance against violence and additionally clean our clubs public appearance from visualising "any" of the numerous "offenders". Spoiler alert, I do not know how to do properly this without valid legal case. I my modest opinion, the communication by the club has been absolutely abysmal in that regard. So I will let the PR team be creative and coherent in content.

If not, let the man play football and never, NEVER become violent again. I would accept public apology and some serious involvement in awareness campaigns against domestic violence. This should (even if justice says otherwise) happen independently if he plays for us or any other football team.

It is fine that other posters do not agree with me, my goal is not to convince anyone else.
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t mind him playing elsewhere, couldn’t care less where the scumbag goes as long as it’s outside of United. Can’t wait til he’s gone so we can move on from this episode and spare ourselves the cry story from those who think he should stay
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Let him leave, let him play against us, and let an academy product take a lump out of him. Legally
 
PINGUtd said:
My apologies, I didn't mean to offend anyone with the expression ceteris paribus.

Since the tribunal stoped the case the second chance has already been given. In society, but also regarding Getafe and whoever next.

If not prosecuted, the presumption of innocence exists for a reason. I have not followed the Antony case in detail since I do not understand Portuguese and do not read the Brazilian boulevard press, but this also applies to him. If we start to opportunistically accept or deny allegations when it suits us, we loose all credibility. Hence my point, the question about how to deal with legally innocent actors that may or may not committed crimes should not be limited to MG, but instead englobe all our players. While one should apparently never wear our colours again, others are listed in our hall of fame (see: https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/legends). I hate to see double standards depending on what ManUtd player we are talking about.

Long story short, for me, I reduce the complexity and accept that in the UK he is innocent.

If the club prefers to sell, I encourage ManUtd to communicate the reasons in order to take a stance against violence and additionally clean our clubs public appearance from visualising "any" of the numerous "offenders". Spoiler alert, I do not know how to do properly this without valid legal case. I my modest opinion, the communication by the club has been absolutely abysmal in that regard. So I will let the PR team be creative and coherent in content.

If not, let the man play football and never, NEVER become violent again. I would accept public apology and some serious involvement in awareness campaigns against domestic violence. This should (even if justice says otherwise) happen independently if he plays for us or any other football team.

It is fine that other posters do not agree with me, my goal is not to convince anyone else.
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He already is playing football again.
 
moses said:
It's not about the forgiveness that is innate to different countries, some of the regions you mentioned have the hardest punishments, so perhaps it's down to attitudes to rape and domestic violence as much as forgiveness?
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Wow.
 
ManRant said:
Wow.
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Wow to you too.

Ireland, where I am from has it's issues in this area too. Marital rape was legal until 1991. That has a residual effect. Hopefully it will be generational. We have the sixth highest stats in Europe. Over double the EU average for raping women. We have global stats to show some countries are less progressive here than others. For various reasons. Ignoring it won't help the situation. As well as Ireland, the Scandi Nordic countries have high rates with Sweden having the 6th worse stats globally. There are no obvious divides globally but there are definitely trends.

I think in this case the marital rape attitudes are prevalent and there are countries where it's still not a crime. Posters in this thread have alluded to it when asking for a second chance for MG.

Your profile says you are Malaysian. For example, I have no first hand knowledge but that appears to be a country with some issues around domestic violence.

Again not sure how reliable these sources are but there are plenty similar.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/mala...omen-for-rape-say-domestic-violence-n/2020990

https://www.dailyexpress.com.my/read/5486/marital-rape-and-gender-violence/

Marital Rape

https://thesun.my/local-news/govt-urged-to-amend-law-on-marital-rape-LC12100478
 
Yakuza_devils said:
So far we know for sure that Getafe President said that he spoke to our management and we don't want Greenwood back. However, it seems like Greenwood is not going back Getafe as he clearly said his farewell to the supporters there.

I think for sure he is leaving the question is Lazio, Juventus, Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Napoli, Valencia or etc? The more important question is can we get approximately 30M-40M for him. I think we can and it will be done soon.

Part of me feel really sad, what a player, what could have been!
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He said good byes as his loan last season ended with his future up in the air. It didn't mean he said some sort of permanent good bye to Getafe and won't ever return.

All the other links are tenuous at best. There were reports yesterday that Juve's board have decided not to go for him due to the baggage he comes with. Rest of clubs you listed have been passing mentions from various shit sources. The only one doing the rounds currently is the Lazio interest.

I highly doubt we'll get fees close to what we desire. It'll be either a low fee or another loan.
 
If no team plans to buy him at an acceptable price, what do you think about keeping him for 1 more season (Or half a season) to get his value up first before selling him?
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
If no team plans to buy him at an acceptable price, what do you think about keeping him for 1 more season (Or half a season) to get his value up first before selling him?
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Nope. Get rid. Pointless keeping him and continuing this circus. Even if that means selling him for less than what he's supposedly valued at.
 
Absolute fair play to the staff and a few posters in this thread. It's a very uncomfortable read at times but It's really impressive that some things have been challenged with calm, reasoned arguments . I hope it has moved some people to re consider or at least question their opinions and judgements.

It's worth remembering that the whole point of having places where we can share our opinions is to have them challenged so they can develop and change.
 
PINGUtd said:
My apologies, I didn't mean to offend anyone with the expression ceteris paribus.

Since the tribunal stoped the case the second chance has already been given. In society, but also regarding Getafe and whoever next.

If not prosecuted, the presumption of innocence exists for a reason. I have not followed the Antony case in detail since I do not understand Portuguese and do not read the Brazilian boulevard press, but this also applies to him. If we start to opportunistically accept or deny allegations when it suits us, we loose all credibility. Hence my point, the question about how to deal with legally innocent actors that may or may not committed crimes should not be limited to MG, but instead englobe all our players. While one should apparently never wear our colours again, others are listed in our hall of fame (see: https://www.manutd.com/en/players-and-staff/legends). I hate to see double standards depending on what ManUtd player we are talking about.

Long story short, for me, I reduce the complexity and accept that in the UK he is innocent.

If the club prefers to sell, I encourage ManUtd to communicate the reasons in order to take a stance against violence and additionally clean our clubs public appearance from visualising "any" of the numerous "offenders". Spoiler alert, I do not know how to do properly this without valid legal case. I my modest opinion, the communication by the club has been absolutely abysmal in that regard. So I will let the PR team be creative and coherent in content.

If not, let the man play football and never, NEVER become violent again. I would accept public apology and some serious involvement in awareness campaigns against domestic violence. This should (even if justice says otherwise) happen independently if he plays for us or any other football team.

It is fine that other posters do not agree with me, my goal is not to convince anyone else.
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Presumption of innocence is a legal concept and nothing to do with us keeping him or not. We know he is a scumbag so the rest of your wall of text is irrelevant. Let's get rid and never speak of him again.
 
John XII said:
Absolute fair play to the staff and a few posters in this thread. It's a very uncomfortable read at times but It's really impressive that some things have been challenged with calm, reasoned arguments. I hope it has moved some people to re consider or at least question their opinions and judgements.

It's worth remembering that the whole point of having places where we can share our opinions is to have them challenged so they can develop and change.
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Agreed, if everybody had as little patience as me, the internet would be an even more hostile place than it is today. It truly is commendable and speaks very highly of this forum that some users still have it in them to calmly explain something for the 30th time, even when it's obvious the user they are replying to is being totally disingenuous.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Nope. Get rid. Pointless keeping him and continuing this circus. Even if that means selling him for less than what he's supposedly valued at.
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Normally I may second this. But we at the moment are hampered by FPS and we absolutely need to be smart in the transfer market. Selling him for less than his value would hamper us.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Normally I may second this. But we at the moment are hampered by FPS and we absolutely need to be smart in the transfer market. Selling him for less than his value would hamper us.
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His value is only as high as what clubs are prepared to pay for him and his baggage.

I can't remember who posted it on this thread, but someone said their car was worth $70000 before it had a big crash!
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Normally I may second this. But we at the moment are hampered by FPS and we absolutely need to be smart in the transfer market. Selling him for less than his value would hamper us.
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I see you point, but selling academy players is the best we can do for our finances. So this argument really depends on the potential fee and could swing both ways.

The moral component of his persona makes it difficult for me to include the financial aspect in the equation. If we decide to sell, we should do so no matter if we get 75 or 5 million in return. However, I do not want is any sort of deadwood player coming our way in a trade deal.
 
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Leaving aside the central moral issue with Greenwood (and that includes the principal ‘moral’ concern of corporate types - PR), the error that those who are for taking him back are making is that they’re assuming he’ll just take up where he left off. In other words, that he’ll play and develop in a manner completely unaffected by the events themselves and everthing surrounding it.

And that’s just bonkers imo.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
If no team plans to buy him at an acceptable price, what do you think about keeping him for 1 more season (Or half a season) to get his value up first before selling him?
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This could be one of the possibility but not likely. Personally, since we have FFP issues, major attacking problems and struggle to get decent price for him, we could use him for 1 year to stabilise this transition period before selling him next year. Of course in reality there will be lots of backlash from fans. The poll for him to stay was 50:50, large enough fan base to make this impossible.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Normally I may second this. But we at the moment are hampered by FPS and we absolutely need to be smart in the transfer market. Selling him for less than his value would hamper us.
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Can I just ask how?

Surely any sale would represent pure profit? Whether that's 10 million or 30 million. In addition, won't getting rid of his 100k a week wage give us more wiggle room in that area?
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Normally I may second this. But we at the moment are hampered by FPS and we absolutely need to be smart in the transfer market. Selling him for less than his value would hamper us.
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Interesting point, a number of experts have said that our so called financial issues are an INEOS creation. We are nowhere near the limit for PSR and are not one of the clubs being looked at by the PL, we are simply briefing we have no money and compliance concerns in an attempt to reset expectations both with the market and with our own fanbase. On July 1st we effectively drop an enormous chunk of salary from the wage bill and we are also done with the last amortitization amounts for a number of players such as AWB. The notion that we cannot afford to take a low bid on Greenwood due to our financial issues is a myth, we could release him on a free and still spend 150M in this window without any problems if INEOS want to spend the money.
 
Gandalf said:
Interesting point, a number of experts have said that our so called financial issues are an INEOS creation. We are nowhere near the limit for PSR and are not one of the clubs being looked at by the PL, we are simply briefing we have no money and compliance concerns in an attempt to reset expectations both with the market and with our own fanbase. On July 1st we effectively drop an enormous chunk of salary from the wage bill and we are also done with the last amortitization amounts for a number of players such as AWB. The notion that we cannot afford to take a low bid on Greenwood due to our financial issues is a myth, we could release him on a free and still spend 150M in this window without any problems if INEOS want to spend the money.
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I am mildly optimistic that you are right and that our savings on wages will improve our situation.
AWB's amortisation is just a fraction (approx 11 mio) of a total 172 mio USD. But if not mistaken this also applies to Maguire's and Bruno's fee so there is surely some room to manoeuvre. I just checked last years FORM 20-F (annual report due to us being listed in NYC) and it not looking great regarding reserves/equity. IMO, the big question mark is how the cash injections will be accounted for.

I am just not sure how this will affect other clubs; seeing our financials is something that every other club negotiating with us can do too. Regarding fans expectations, you might have a point though...
The fiscal year ends in 5 days on the 30th of June. We will (all) see how the real picture looks like.
 
cafecillos said:
Also, apparently earning millions playing football in the second or third best league in the world is not really a "second chance".
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Yeah, his second chance was literally when he didn't get his backside slung in the clink.
Anything, and I mean anything, after that is a bonus for him never mind playing football in the sun whilst earning millions.
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t mind him playing elsewhere, couldn’t care less where the scumbag goes as long as it’s outside of United. Can’t wait til he’s gone so we can move on from this episode and spare ourselves the cry story from those who think he should stay
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This, with bells on!
 
SAF is the GOAT said:
Manchester United are prepared to welcome Mason Greenwood back for pre-season training - if they fail to sell him within the next 14 days.
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A day after an announcement the women's team are to train in makeshift facilities to protect 'the first team', Greenwood is said to be eased back in.

Utterly vile, but not unexpected from Brexshit Jim.
 
doubleohseven said:
A day after an announcement the women's team are to train in makeshift facilities to protect 'the first team', Greenwood is said to be eased back in.

Utterly vile, but not unexpected from Brexshit Jim.
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If he's not sold by that time, they either terminate his contract or he has to report back to training. I don't think the club can tell him not ro report to training without causing legal problems. They should try to sell him as soon as possible to avoid all the mess that will come from him training with the team.
 
They cannot refuse to allow him to train with the team when he spent a whole season training and playing with the professional team we loaned him out to.

It’s up to United to get this deal done. But would never surprise me if he stays as clubs refuse to meet the £40m price tag.

I understand both arguments but ideally the deal gets done. Otherwise more drama to a very important season coming up.
 
doubleohseven said:
A day after an announcement the women's team are to train in makeshift facilities to protect 'the first team', Greenwood is said to be eased back in.

Utterly vile, but not unexpected from Brexshit Jim.
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There is a zero chance he will be training with the 1st team. A make uppy tweet for clicks .
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
That does feck all for us in the short term though, apart from ridding ourselves of the cnuts presence which is the main thing I guess but financially the money from that sale won’t go down on the books until next summer, which doesn’t really help us with raising cash for this window.
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An obligation to buy is treated like a transfer accounting wise.
 
If we can't sell him by then he has to train with the first team. Otherwise we are basically telling the whole world we don't want him to even train with the first team and come get him at a rock bottom price. This is crazy!
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Really? I wasn’t aware of that cheers. That sounds much better then, although I’m still not buying that an Italian club is going to part with £40m for him, sounds far too good to be true.
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Well, as long as it's an actual obligation to buy, not one of those obligation if conditions X, Y and Z are met.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
If we can't sell him by then he has to train with the first team. Otherwise we are basically telling the whole world we don't want him to even train with the first team and come get him at a rock bottom price. This is crazy!
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ETH did it to Sancho
 
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