You’re probably right. But I don’t want be disrespectful towards people who has different attitudes in viewing this case. I’m sure those people don’t mean harm.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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I think that you’re both right. The African region is a highly religious area too so the fact that the Bible says forgive then that’s what they believe in
We might be looking at the PSR loophole that Villa are exploiting. If we trade for Chiesa, we can post the Greenwood element as pure profit in one hit, and Chiesa over length of contract.
I think you might see a lot more of players moving each way from clubs in the near future.
I think you might see a lot more of players moving each way from clubs in the near future.
Why would we want Chiesa though?
I read today that although their Dof liked the player the owners have vetoed the signing due to the baggage he comes with.
I highly doubt we'd be able to sell him, especially at those numbers that have been mentioned. I see him going to Getafe on loan again next season. Maybe this time they'll pay a higher portion of his salary & a loan fee that covers the rest of it.
Because he’s better than anything we have on the right, and works his gonads off and looks pretty decent in the euros so far (I know, I know never judge a player off a tournament)
Workrate is overrated. Most players will have an acceptable default level of workrate. No one is out there on a pitch playing as statues.
Quality matters. Technique & IQ matter. Chiesa is decent I guess but seemingly hasn't lived up to his potential.
They are willing to forgive him/ignore his crimes because they think he's the best player we've ever had. That's what all this comes down to.
Those same people would be sending abuse to him on social media if he came back and went 5 games without scoring.
Rashford says hi
Trauma is a bit more normalized for some people
Absolutely do not want Chiesa. Bremer or Kenan Yildiz if Juve want to include a player.
Still, I hate to admit that I really think we should keep MG. I had never felt so much joy when watching an academy product than when MG played for us - was convinced he would become the next RVP and club legend. Which is your point. But there also is:
Though, I will never fully pardon him for what happened, I do not "prefer" him scoring goals for another team. If he is not jailed or banned from playing football, the same moral rule should apply to Juve, Lazio, Getafe or ManUtd. IMO the fans hoping to get a decent fee for MG and hoping he never wears our colours again, should ask themselves if they do not mind him playing somewhere else.
I'm glad we try to have better morals sometimes.
Juventus - History of match fixing
Lazio - History of supporting fascists
Good company to be away from.
Ultimately, people don't want him representing us. I don't think they care how good he is or how good he can be. What he did makes everything else irrelevant.
Well it's about standards. We don't have control over whether he scores at other clubs. We do have control over whether he scores for us, and the majority of fans do not want someone who evidencially carries out physical and emotional domestic abuse on their partner scoring for us. I count myself amongst those fans.
We should definitely be sticking a large sell on fee on any deal. Would soften any blow if he does get back to his best at some other club since due to his dumbass scummy actions we've lost a potential £100m asset for a pittance of the worth after the amount of work the club put in to nurture his talent. At least we'd either be nicely compensated or his career just dies.
We are never lucky with these sell-on clauses. I kept hoping that Zaha will be sold by Palace to a bigger club and we'll get 20% (Or 25%) of the fee but in the end he left for free. I rather get more money upfront rather than a huge sell-on which never materializes.
Anyway, knew that talks of 30m-40m from these Italian clubs is bullshit. These cheap asses will try to get him for as low as possible. My bet is still on another loan to Getafe.
Anyway, knew that talks of 30m-40m from these Italian clubs is bullshit. These cheap asses will try to get him for as low as possible. My bet is still on another loan to Getafe.
I'd keep him for pre-season and test the waters of him playing for United again in a different Country. Will also raise his value if United decide to cash in after pre-season.
But I know that is going to be extremely unpopular and therefore I want to quote that guy on here who said something, something "won't reply" - but I can't remember it
But I know that is going to be extremely unpopular and therefore I want to quote that guy on here who said something, something "won't reply" - but I can't remember it
If you can get £15 mil plus a 50% sell on fee, that's going to be better than £30 mil with no clause.
Give me hard work every day of the week over Sancho, Martial, current Rashford.
So far we know for sure that Getafe President said that he spoke to our management and we don't want Greenwood back. However, it seems like Greenwood is not going back Getafe as he clearly said his farewell to the supporters there.
I think for sure he is leaving the question is Lazio, Juventus, Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Napoli, Valencia or etc? The more important question is can we get approximately 30M-40M for him. I think we can and it will be done soon.
Part of me feel really sad, what a player, what could have been!
I think for sure he is leaving the question is Lazio, Juventus, Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Napoli, Valencia or etc? The more important question is can we get approximately 30M-40M for him. I think we can and it will be done soon.
Part of me feel really sad, what a player, what could have been!
I still think he was a bit overrated. Clearly has talent but we can do a lot better and he looked good mostly because of our late dark years. We are not losing messi here
That's money 3-4 years away and assumes he does well. We need to sell to the highest bidder for our present summer business boost.
Not with PSR it won't be. The club should just get as much cash as they can now to free up breathing space to sign players.
He is a special player. He is one of the best finisher I have ever seen. Most of his goals were scored from half chances mid-long range shot. Most of his shots were at the angle that was unsaveable by the GK. The angles you would think impossible or difficult to hit with such accuracy. His finishing were magic and a beauty to watch especially coming from an academy product.
We will be lucky if the highest bidder is 15M. The latest is that Lazio have offered a fee in that region whilst Juve are no longer interested because they have already gauged that the fan reaction will not be worth the hassle. We have to accept that the profile of club that will be willing to sign him will be those for whom 15M would be close to a record fee and those offers won't be there forever.
https://www.juvefc.com/why-juventus-ownership-vetoed-move-for-man-united-winger/amp/
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Like Dan James?
Hard agree on this
I fully understand you have clear personal opinions regarding MG. I admire your strong morale.
I am not saying I want him back at any price, I just do not think I prefer him being anywhere else. If guilty, the only place were he should be is jail - but I will spare you my opinion on the British justice system.
However, regarding standards. Our club does not have superior standards*. At least from "collective and institutional" perspective (as opposed to your individual opinions that I do not know), let's not fool ourselves.
Check Google regarding our club legends Giggs and C. Ronaldo.
* Let's maybe not mix up everything and exclude match-fixing and nazi-connection. Those crimes are total off-topic. I could have listed any club (besides i.c. Juve and Lazio) that might hypothetically take MG of our books.
Oh look, this argument again. The Giggs stuff dates from long after his career here had ended and safe to say a lot of his biggest fans, myself included, wouldn't want anything to do with the guy anymore. Ronaldo is a situation where we really should not have brought him back in light of the allegations but for some reason it seems that it was considerably less widely reported and so an enormous number of fans simply were not aware. I think it is safe to say that had the Ronaldo incident occurred 10 years later in a much different climate, it would have impacted his career far more significantly.
Frankly though, pointing to past failings and saying that these would justify repeating the mistake is such a ludicrous stance that it is hard to debate seriously. Taken to its logical conclusion we could then say MG could do it all over again and because we forgave him the first time we need to do so again and again, sounds like a recipe for enabling domestic violence which in the end I suspect is your true stance on this.
I don’t mind him playing elsewhere, couldn’t care less where the scumbag goes as long as it’s outside of United. Can’t wait til he’s gone so we can move on from this episode and spare ourselves the cry story from those who think he should stay
I totally agree. Times are finally changing.
Yet, have we really learnt? Can any one living in Manchester tell us how these two are portrayed in our Museum?
First; kind advice, avoid assuming my opinion as I did not assume yours. This topic is difficult but I do not tolerate personal attacks and if you can not behave, I will step away from this thread.
Regarding my stance, domestic violence is a heavy crime that should be penalised accordingly. if legally guilty, he should be jailed. But apparently this is not an option in the UK. Meaning that innocence should at least not be excluded. In case there you have any doubt, I am not defending MG private life behaviour/crimes.
In my home country, I trust the legal system and make it up to the justice. Very likely that he would sanctioned in Switzerland, even though it would make it easy for Manchester United, I am afraid this is irrelevant here. Most and foremost, fans - well citizens, should trust and respect their institutions. Both this forum and fanbase is global, so I am not sure we should each apply our "own justice" instead the English one of our club in Manchester.
I agree, we have a lot at stake here.
If we do apply the higher moral ground regarding MG, we should apply it to our past heroes as well. And while we are at it, we should probably boycott to play against teams that field players with "similar" records. There are plenty still active. I am all for it. Still, I do not think this is any realistic in the UK.
As our academy player, we should either totally distance ourselves from all assault (e.g. as I suggested above) or stand by him as (if) he is legally innocent. And only then we should discuss if we sell or not. I just do not understand how we are improving anything by quickly selling him and then do as if nothing happened. The least we can do is to clearly communicate as a club why we decided to sell. One assumption from my side, I do not believe the sale would happen due to financials or sportive reasons. This would definitely help the cause to stop the violence.
Ceteris Paribus, we sell him to Juve trying to silence the whole story (Similar to the case CR7 in past) ... Imagine if we face Juventus in the Europa League and they field him against us. Serious question, should we then forfait the game or act if nothing ever happened and pet our shoulder believing that our standards are higher?
Either way, this entire situation is tragic and I hope that our club will communicate a clear position so that we can move on.
Oh in such a case I wouldn’t care less. Why should I?
How do you suggest we do this?
Ceteris paribus all right.
With a Delorian, I guess.
Serious question though.
What?
I really don’t understand the use of the phrase ‘second chance’ in this scenario. Do these people genuinely believe it was a one-off incident?
Also, apparently earning millions playing football in the second or third best league in the world is not really a "second chance".
Plus he's absolutely getting a second fecking chance right now! It just doesn't happen to be at united. What people usually mean when they say this is 'let's willfully ignore what's happened so that we can retain a talented footballer'.
Edit: @cafecillos beat me to it.
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