Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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If he is to be re-integrated, surely he'll address the matter at the minimum?

I just don't see how his re-integration doesn't come with a whole wave of issues. While I think he's extraordinarily talented, I think his actions were deplorable and there should be no redemption for him at this club.
 
Its actually very simple. Either he's 100% guilty and he should not step in the club or he is 100% innocent but for him IMO there is no middle ground. He should not be subjected to controversies if he was to return thats for sure.
 
brontelicious said:
With respect, I dispute whether or not you want a 'constructive' debate at all.

It seems you want the discussion tailored to justify Greenwood coming back.

Everybody knows what domestic violence is ditto coercive behaviour and attempted rape.

Greenwood's age, background and stress being used to 'mitigate' his behaviour is insulting to others his age, anyone from a similar background and anyone, of any age or description, who has a stressful job.
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No, not at all really. I see that more and more professional football players are prosecuted for doing very wrong things. This is because they are doing these things. As football is such a globally watched sport, global debates such as behaviour with regards to women (for instance) should also be something that is talked about around football. The macho attitude of large parts of the sport makes homophobia and misogyne rather common, stuff that can lead to hurting women both physical & psychological. We've had a fair share of bad behaviour at this club with the likes of Giggs and others. Calling someone a rapist isn't going to solve this problem. Neither is reinstating Greenwood here as if nothing happened. Nor is trying to solve FFP by selling this player. I'm saying a public debate is not a bad thing, no matter how the matter is resolved.

To conclude, I do not 100% want Greenwood back. If he isn't sorry, doesn't want help fixing his blatend problems & doesn't want to be a the face of a public debate on how to fix this sort of terrible behaviour, I wouldn't want him back at all; I wouldn't want to see the club profit from a misogynist in a sporting or financial manner.
 
Quality control
brontelicious said:
With respect, I dispute whether or not you want a 'constructive' debate at all.

It seems you want the discussion tailored to justify Greenwood coming back.

Everybody knows what domestic violence is ditto coercive behaviour and attempted rape.

Greenwood's age, background and stress being used to 'mitigate' his behaviour is insulting to others his age, anyone from a similar background and anyone, of any age or description, who has a stressful job.
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Well the issue
brontelicious said:
With respect, I dispute whether or not you want a 'constructive' debate at all.

It seems you want the discussion tailored to justify Greenwood coming back.

Everybody knows what domestic violence is ditto coercive behaviour and attempted rape.

Greenwood's age, background and stress being used to 'mitigate' his behaviour is insulting to others his age, anyone from a similar background and anyone, of any age or description, who has a stressful job.
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The problem with this issue is that she stayed with him. Offcourse domestic violence should not be tolerated but she ruined her own credibility when she married him after the case. It puts into question her own sincierety and motives and undervalues the women who are victims of domestic violence and would not tolerate another second with a violent man. But IMO there should be no middle ground for Greenwood. Either he is 100% guilty and should not be accepted back to the club or he is 100% not guilty in which case he kind of deserves an apology from the public. To be honest Im still not sure if he really was violent or their kinky games just took a wrong turn. The only two people who actually know that are Greenwood and his wife
 
norm87cro said:
Well the issue

The problem with this issue is that she stayed with him. Offcourse domestic violence should not be tolerated but she ruined her own credibility when she married him after the case. It puts into question her own sincierety and motives and undervalues the women who are victims of domestic violence and would not tolerate another second with a violent man. But IMO there should be no middle ground for Greenwood. Either he is 100% guilty and should not be accepted back to the club or he is 100% not guilty in which case he kind of deserves an apology from the public. To be honest Im still not sure if he really was violent or their kinky games just took a wrong turn. The only two people who actually know that are Greenwood and his wife
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It's also possible that she really loves him? There are many instances of people who suffer abuse from loved ones and stick with them. That doesn't mean the abuse isn't real or the victim isn't sincere. The psychology behind domestic abuse is not as black & white as you make it seem.
 
Wibble said:
Thank goodness we have you to mod the mods. Doubly so as you obviously know the full context of the mod actions.

Or perhaps mind your own business and wind your neck in.
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This is just how Nazi Germany sta..
 
norm87cro said:
Well the issue

The problem with this issue is that she stayed with him. Offcourse domestic violence should not be tolerated but she ruined her own credibility when she married him after the case. It puts into question her own sincierety and motives and undervalues the women who are victims of domestic violence and would not tolerate another second with a violent man. But IMO there should be no middle ground for Greenwood. Either he is 100% guilty and should not be accepted back to the club or he is 100% not guilty in which case he kind of deserves an apology from the public. To be honest Im still not sure if he really was violent or their kinky games just took a wrong turn. The only two people who actually know that are Greenwood and his wife
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Horrendous post.
 
Carl said:
This is just how Nazi Germany sta..
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It is how a rationally moderated forum continues.

If we merely banned people for opinions then there would be about 1000 or more banned posters who are not.

For example you weren't punished in any way for challenging the moderation.
 
Wibble said:
It is how a rationally moderated forum continues.

If we merely banned people for opinions then there would be about 1000 or more banned posters who are not.

For example you weren't punished in any way for challenging the moderation.
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I wasn't serious tbf. And I get that everyone in this thread seems a little tightly wound because of the subject matter. But it also seems there is little to no tolerance of having a view other than "he should be booted from the club".

Anyway. I only dared venture in here because I was a bottle of Shiraz deep. I'll leave you all to it.
 
norm87cro said:
Well the issue

The problem with this issue is that she stayed with him. Offcourse domestic violence should not be tolerated but she ruined her own credibility when she married him after the case. It puts into question her own sincierety and motives and undervalues the women who are victims of domestic violence and would not tolerate another second with a violent man. But IMO there should be no middle ground for Greenwood. Either he is 100% guilty and should not be accepted back to the club or he is 100% not guilty in which case he kind of deserves an apology from the public. To be honest Im still not sure if he really was violent or their kinky games just took a wrong turn. The only two people who actually know that are Greenwood and his wife
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Awfully ignorant post about a terrible societal problem. Educate yourself before making a fool of yourself.
 
Carl said:
I wasn't serious tbf. And I get that everyone in this thread seems a little tightly wound because of the subject matter. But it also seems there is little to no tolerance of having a view other than "he should be booted from the club".

Anyway. I only dared venture in here because I was a bottle of Shiraz deep. I'll leave you all to it.
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I think you're wrong. It's the mitigating what he allegedly did that there is no tolerance for. That has a much wider reach than wanting to bring him back.
 
brontelicious said:
With respect, I dispute whether or not you want a 'constructive' debate at all.

It seems you want the discussion tailored to justify Greenwood coming back.

Everybody knows what domestic violence is ditto coercive behaviour and attempted rape.

Greenwood's age, background and stress being used to 'mitigate' his behaviour is insulting to others his age, anyone from a similar background and anyone, of any age or description, who has a stressful job.
Click to expand...

Yeah as much as I've presented points for the Greenwood-in camp, this 'stressful job' thing is no excuse. Neither is the whole 'they are back together/ they look happy' argument. This is again just speculation on our part.

Neither side (Out/In) have all the evidence and are guilty of speculation on this thread tbh - which is why I stay out of it for the most part. Would rather just wait and see what happens when the season is over, and I will accept whatever decision the club takes about him.

From a talent perspective - Yes he's talented but he's nowhere near a 100M talent, if we can get rid for at least 40 and not have to deal with his PR that's a win, I don't think that his talent level is worth the trouble. Imo this doesn't change anything for United and suddenly make them the champions of women's rights in my books - As the club, I'd be looking at what United can do to correct the attitudes of some of these players coming through our academies, and we've had quite a few over the years, with players like Giggs, Ravel, Greenwood being the prominent ones we know about. Could probably add Darren Ferguson to that list as well, and I'm sure there are a few others we don't know about. Perhaps it's a culture thing, perhaps it's an individual thing, but the club needs to foster an environment where the players focus on their football, and where these kinds of personalities are weeded out and corrected.
 
RedRocket08 said:
From a talent perspective - Yes he's talented but he's nowhere near a 100M talent,
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In fairness - The footballer Greenwood before the suspension was a £100M talent - I will consider him more talented than Rashford. If he regains that form ( I haven't seen much of him in Spain) - he is a £100M talent if you ignore the baggage
 
Carl said:
I wasn't serious tbf. And I get that everyone in this thread seems a little tightly wound because of the subject matter. But it also seems there is little to no tolerance of having a view other than "he should be booted from the club".

Anyway. I only dared venture in here because I was a bottle of Shiraz deep. I'll leave you all to it.
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Shiraz you say. Mmmmmmm.

And it is very hard to tell who is serious in this shit show of a thread.

Of course I could ban you if you don't share your Shiraz. :cool:
 
norm87cro said:
Well the issue

The problem with this issue is that she stayed with him. Offcourse domestic violence should not be tolerated but she ruined her own credibility when she married him after the case. It puts into question her own sincierety and motives and undervalues the women who are victims of domestic violence and would not tolerate another second with a violent man. But IMO there should be no middle ground for Greenwood. Either he is 100% guilty and should not be accepted back to the club or he is 100% not guilty in which case he kind of deserves an apology from the public. To be honest Im still not sure if he really was violent or their kinky games just took a wrong turn. The only two people who actually know that are Greenwood and his wife
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You ruined your own argument there. Do some research
 
Carl said:
I wasn't serious tbf. And I get that everyone in this thread seems a little tightly wound because of the subject matter. But it also seems there is little to no tolerance of having a view other than "he should be booted from the club".

Anyway. I only dared venture in here because I was a bottle of Shiraz deep. I'll leave you all to it.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
WouterWeghorst said:
It's also possible that she really loves him? There are many instances of people who suffer abuse from loved ones and stick with them. That doesn't mean the abuse isn't real or the victim isn't sincere. The psychology behind domestic abuse is not as black & white as you make it seem.
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Exactly this.
 
Jesus Christ Greenwood wasn’t a Harry Kane or a Shearer, he wasn’t that good, there are better strikers out there lets just sell him for what we can and move on, end of.
 
lysglimt said:
In fairness - The footballer Greenwood before the suspension was a £100M talent - I will consider him more talented than Rashford. If he regains that form ( I haven't seen much of him in Spain) - he is a £100M talent if you ignore the baggage
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Oh 100% he was, at that age and that time, a bigger talent than Rashford, probably even a better talent (statistically) than Garna at the same age. But since watching some of his highlights at Getafe I feel he's lost 2 years of development - he can go on to improve from here of course, but he's not the player he was back then, which is why I think even letting him go for around 40M (I can't even say if we would get that tbh - not down to his talent, but rather the baggage which will be a bargaining chip for whoever buys him) is still an acceptable outcome. Otherwise it's another year of dealing with this in the media, at the club and in the dressing room - if he's not going to be part of United's plans, I'd rather get rid this Summer rather than waiting for him to live up to that potential elsewhere and turn into that 100M player.
 
SWE-Chucky said:
Just scrolled past a Man United fan page on Instagram where they put up an post about Greenwood and added a voting poll - out of 24k votes, 88% voted for "Bring him back" and the other 12% "We dont want him back".

It feels like many supporters truly dont care about what players have done as long as they are not found guilty in court - and the ones that are against him returning are the ones making a lot of noise - so I had a feeling the poll would be 90%+ not wanting him back (probably would be here In a forum with more "real" supporters then Instagram 13-25 years old maybe just voting without even knowing the whole true and is only voting for Mason Greenwood the football player and not for him as a person or the situation).
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88% wanting him back seems a bit high, although not particularly surprising given that a vast majority of United fans/followers/supporters appear to exist in Asia and Africa. The poll we did here a couple of months ago was about 55-45 in favor him him coming back. I wouldn't suspect it would be much different today than in Jan.
 
Walked into OT behind Fulham fans singing about Mason and Ronnie being rapists. Can't imagine the shite they would get if they both still played for us.
 
Mart1974 said:
Walked into OT behind Fulham fans singing about Mason and Ronnie being rapists. Can't imagine the shite they would get if they both still played for us.
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Rachel Riley must be a Fulham fan now. Or else you must be imagining things.
 
Pretty shite today by most accounts. Pellestri scored and assisted against this mob only the other week.
 
I’d like to see a poll on how many people actually believe the club is that guilty of gross negligence.

Given there is a large crowd that don’t believe the results of the internal investigation. It has to mean that they believe the club has been negligent in its findings, and even more negligent in retaining his services, sending him out on loan to another country, and setting up a home for the victim to be isolated with her abuser whilst bringing a small person with the victim and the abuser.

The enormous amount of negligence for the club of Utd size is something I can’t comprehend.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
I’d like to see a poll on how many people actually believe the club is that guilty of gross negligence.

Given there is a large crowd that don’t believe the results of the internal investigation. It has to mean that they believe the club has been negligent in its findings, and even more negligent in retaining his services, sending him out on loan to another country, and setting up a home for the victim to be isolated with her abuser whilst bringing a small person with the victim and the abuser.

The enormous amount of negligence for the club of Utd size is something I can’t comprehend.
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Seriously? Bigger organisations than Man United have been guilty of far more negligent behaviour, many, many, many times over.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
I’d like to see a poll on how many people actually believe the club is that guilty of gross negligence.

Given there is a large crowd that don’t believe the results of the internal investigation. It has to mean that they believe the club has been negligent in its findings, and even more negligent in retaining his services, sending him out on loan to another country, and setting up a home for the victim to be isolated with her abuser whilst bringing a small person with the victim and the abuser.

The enormous amount of negligence for the club of Utd size is something I can’t comprehend.
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Just be thankful you were never around when Madoff was in his pomp and you were looking to invest your savings.
 
RedDevilUnited369 said:
The enormous amount of negligence for the club of Utd size is something I can’t comprehend.
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You can't comprehend this level of negligence even though you have witnessed Glazer led United over the past decade plus?

That's surprising.

Surely the expectation of this level of negligence is the rule rather than the exception at this point for most United fans?

Unless you are under the impression that they have run a tight ship up until this point?
 
lysglimt said:
In fairness - The footballer Greenwood before the suspension was a £100M talent - I will consider him more talented than Rashford. If he regains that form ( I haven't seen much of him in Spain) - he is a £100M talent if you ignore the baggage
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No he wasn't.

He was a promising player at that point but nowhere near 100million.
 
Listening to the Talk of the Devils pod this past week, Whitwell said he was told awhile back if Utd asked GW to come back, he would choose not to, because of the way he was treated after the incident came to light. If it's true, the arrogance that he exhibited before the ordeal is still there, and he certainly feels that he did nothing wrong or he is owed something.
 
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