Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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moses said:
A 'safe space' to discuss a player the club saw fit to exile doesn't make any individual interested in the thread a sympathiser. It may however appear weird to chat about football with no context, considering what the context is.

It's precisely as a staff member that the optics of such a thread concern me.
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I think that’s how things are perceived though. You must be one side or the other. Nothing in the middle or as entrenched is seen as acceptable. People ready to pounce on anyone that does not conform to their views.

In all honesty I’d probably just shut it all down again as I don’t think it’s productive in the current format.
 
Jippy said:
Could be, although using it in the body text of an article just seems to be a pure editorial decision.. The BBC write up doesn't even disclose what the 'insult' was, oddly.

Jude Bellingham: La Liga investigating alleged insult made towards Mason Greenwood
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68186145
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Fair play to La Liga for investigating him. This kind of thing should not be tolerated. Bellingham should concentrate on his football. That's what he's paid for.
 
TheReligion said:
I think that some are, understandably, too emotionally invested either way though so can’t accept a view different to their own.
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There is of course nothing wrong with being emotionally invested in a topic. The trick is to remain open to opposing views even if one disagrees with them. If one can't do that then a discussion forum isn't the right place for them.
 
TheReligion said:
I think that’s how things are perceived though. You must be one side or the other. Nothing in the middle or as entrenched is seen as acceptable. People ready to pounce on anyone that does not conform to their views.

In all honesty I’d probably just shut it all down again as I don’t think it’s productive in the current format.
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Not sure what your point is.

There are loads of people who don't have a view.

Personally I'd take the club's lead and exile him. But if he is to be discussed, I think the context must not be lost, even slightly.
 
red.knight said:
Fair play to La Liga for investigating him. This kind of thing should not be tolerated. Bellingham should concentrate on his football. That's what he's paid for.
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He could just deny it since there's zero evidence he ever said it in the first place....other than lip readers, which are notoriously unreliable.
 
moses said:
Not sure what your point is.

There are loads of people who don't have a view.

Personally I'd take the club's lead and exile him. But if he is to be discussed, I think the context must not be lost, even slightly.
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While I do not disagree, I do not think the context would get lost without regurgitating the same posts and points every single day.
 
FortunaUtd said:
While I do not disagree, I do not think the context would get lost without regurgitating the same posts and points every single day.
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Aye, but that's down to people not reading the thread and the fact there is no new data.
 
Raoul said:
He could just deny it since there's zero evidence he every said it in the first place....other than lip readers, which are notoriously unreliable.
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With todays technology they can pick up on that, Bellingham doesn't need to do that, if it's true
 
Raoul said:
There is of course nothing wrong with being emotionally invested in a topic. The trick is to remain open to opposing views even if one disagrees with them. If one can't do that then a discussion forum isn't the right place for them.
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Absolutely.

moses said:
Not sure what your point is.

There are loads of people who don't have a view.

Personally I'd take the club's lead and exile him. But if he is to be discussed, I think the context must not be lost, even slightly.
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I think there lies the problem somewhat. The only thing that’s going to change at the moment are his performances. All the other chat is stagnant unless more is released or those involved decide to speak on matters publicly. This side of the discussion will open up again in the summer when he returns to the club.

If the stance is his current performance can’t be discussed independently from everything else then there is a perpetual cycle of back and fourth exchanges then don’t go anywhere.
 
TheReligion said:
Absolutely.



I think there lies the problem somewhat. The only thing that’s going to change at the moment are his performances. All the other chat is stagnant unless more is released or those involved decide to speak on matters publicly. This side of the discussion will open up again in the summer when he returns to the club.

If the stance is his current performance can’t be discussed independently from everything else then there is a perpetual cycle of back and fourth exchanges then don’t go anywhere.
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Why should the caf provide an uninterrupted space to discuss a player the club have exiled and don't discuss?

Personally I think that lacks respect.

As for it not going anywhere. So what? Just inginre the posts not about his performances. I just ignore the performance posts, it's quite easy.
 
Jude sounds like a lad who’s got it good and thinks he’ll ride the purple wave all his life. Let’s see how he handles his own when the speed bumps roll on.
 
red.knight said:
Its not for me to decide. If its true, Bellingham has let himself down massively, no need for that, just get on with the game.
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Your outrage passed quickly. This is a great thread for fence sitting.

It's a part of almost all competitve sport. I'd say get over it.
 
moses said:
Why should the caf provide an uninterrupted space to discuss a player the club have exiled abd don't discuss?

Personally I think that lacks respect.
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I’m not sure what you mean by uninterrupted? As in why should people be allowed to discuss his performances in La Liga without the thread being derailed?

I think if a performance thread was deemed inappropriate then it should have all been knocked on the head until the summer tbh.
 
TheReligion said:
I’m not sure what you mean by uninterrupted? As in why should people be allowed to discuss his performances in La Liga without the thread being derailed?

I think if a performance thread was deemed inappropriate then it should have all been knocked on the head until the summer tbh.
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Well yes, personally I think it should have been knocked on the head. Some feel a football only thread is appropriate. This is in the middle.

You can always knock your participation on the head yourself.
 
moses said:
Well yes, personally I think it should have been knocked on the head. Some feel a football only thread is appropriate. This is in the middle.

You can always knock your participation on the head yourself.
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I don’t participate much as it is very much rinse repeat to be honest. I am interested on what goes on with him in Spain though, good and bad, so my irritation is not being able to find out without trawling through the same arguments in a mega thread.

Could you not have a closed thread which was mod updated again?
 
TheReligion said:
I don’t participate much as it is very much rinse repeat to be honest. I am interested on what goes on with him in Spain though, good and bad, so my irritation is not being able to find out without trawling through the same arguments in a mega thread.

Could you not have a closed thread which was mod updated again?
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Personally I'd have no interest.

Just watch Getafe highlights?
 
moses said:
Your outrage passed quickly. This is a great thread for fence sitting.

It's a part of almost all competitve sport. I'd say get over it.
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I never get outraged nor offended by anything. I also don’t feel righteous without doing much of anything. In my opinion, Bellingham shouldn’t just mouth off like that about someone (whether you believe it to be true or not), and in public, in front of thousands. Footballers in general have good feet but low IQs. Seems evolution means you can't have both.
 
TheReligion said:
I know you don’t but I think others do.

I’m not that interested to sit through Getafe highlights though :lol:
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You would have totally been able to catch up on his progress on Twatter in the time you spent discussing it with me!

It's all about priorities.
 
red.knight said:
I never get outraged nor offended by anything. I also don’t feel righteous without doing much of anything. In my opinion, Bellingham shouldn’t just mouth off like that about someone (whether you believe it to be true or not), and in public, in front of thousands. Footballers in general have good feet but low IQs. Seems evolution means you can't have both.
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You said it was unacceptable. That's all I was referring to.

So you really think we should start policing what players say to each other? To what level?

What's your IQ? Mata's is around 145 I think and Lampard's 150.
 
red.knight said:
I never get outraged nor offended by anything. I also don’t feel righteous without doing much of anything. In my opinion, Bellingham shouldn’t just mouth off like that about someone (whether you believe it to be true or not), and in public, in front of thousands. Footballers in general have good feet but low IQs. Seems evolution means you can't have both.
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Whatever helps you sleep at night pal
 
Peter van der Gea said:
No one is stopping him from doing what he wants, and definitely nobody is calling him to be hanged or even convicted, we just don't want him playing for the club that we support. The support that goes towards paying him insane wages.
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Understand and respect your POV on this, while I am indifferent about his return (maybe even supportive if you consider some of my discussions on this forum), if this doesn't sit well with even a minority of the fanbase who are quite vocal about it (For valid reasons) we should should get rid. I do think none of that money should be going to the club though, and we should just let him leave on a free - What are your thoughts on this, because some fans want to sell him for profit, but I think the club would still be at issue if we profit from him?

Peter van der Gea said:
I will say one thing though, the outers often ask the backers about their opinion of his guilt and we're told we're snowflakes and we're judging without any evidence. There's a guy here saying that we want him hanged. Nope, we just want him to feck off, so stop the hyperbole.
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There are quite a few of those hyperbolic posters you mentioned from both sides of this argument though - OK you want him to feck off, fair, but would all of those in the Greenwood out camp then be willing to forego any transfer fees, if binning him is the path we take? A lot of those in the 'sell' camp who are happy to give him plenty of labels, or are happy about Bellingham's comments to him still want to profit from his sale - which I personally think is a bit hypocritical given the reasons for wanting to get rid. I mean we don't particularly need his transfer fees for our budget, we'll have to make do with a youth player maybe, which I'm totally fine with.

There are also plenty who are able to respect both sides here - I think we'll actually get somewhere in this thread (rather than going around in circles) if both sides just stop calling each other Snowflakes or DV sympathisers etc. etc. Neither of these labels are accurate imo.
 
moses said:
Maybe he's just not a fan of (allegedly) 'mistreating' people?
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It’s not like Greenwood has been blissfully unaware and I don’t think St. Bellingham is the first to anoint him with that word even in that very game.
 
RedRocket08 said:
Understand and respect your POV on this, while I am indifferent about his return (maybe even supportive if you consider some of my discussions on this forum), if this doesn't sit well with even a minority of the fanbase who are quite vocal about it (For valid reasons) we should should get rid. I do think none of that money should be going to the club though, and we should just let him leave on a free - What are your thoughts on this, because some fans want to sell him for profit, but I think the club would still be at issue if we profit from him?



There are quite a few of those hyperbolic posters you mentioned from both sides of this argument though - OK you want him to feck off, fair, but would all of those in the Greenwood out camp then be willing to forego any transfer fees, if binning him is the path we take? A lot of those in the 'sell' camp who are happy to give him plenty of labels, or are happy about Bellingham's comments to him still want to profit from his sale - which I personally think is a bit hypocritical given the reasons for wanting to get rid. I mean we don't particularly need his transfer fees for our budget, we'll have to make do with a youth player maybe, which I'm totally fine with.

There are also plenty who are able to respect both sides here - I think we'll actually get somewhere in this thread (rather than going around in circles) if both sides just stop calling each other Snowflakes or DV sympathisers etc. etc. Neither of these labels are accurate imo.
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That's interesting. I hadn't thought about the money. If the club let him go on a free it wouldn't bother me. If they cashed in on a problematic player then also that wouldn't bother me.

In a thread lacking in acknowledgement of the facts, we need to remind ourselves who want him out of the club that he wasn't found guilty. And we can't act as if he was. We can however look at the evidence we have and the massive and worryingly unchanging grey area and not want him at the club. (The same way others can look at the grey area and feel he should still be here). I think the money is irrelevant. Forgo it, take it, donate it to DV charity. All acceptable personally.
 
RedRocket08 said:
Understand and respect your POV on this, while I am indifferent about his return (maybe even supportive if you consider some of my discussions on this forum), if this doesn't sit well with even a minority of the fanbase who are quite vocal about it (For valid reasons) we should should get rid. I do think none of that money should be going to the club though, and we should just let him leave on a free - What are your thoughts on this, because some fans want to sell him for profit, but I think the club would still be at issue if we profit from him?



There are quite a few of those hyperbolic posters you mentioned from both sides of this argument though - OK you want him to feck off, fair, but would all of those in the Greenwood out camp then be willing to forego any transfer fees, if binning him is the path we take? A lot of those in the 'sell' camp who are happy to give him plenty of labels, or are happy about Bellingham's comments to him still want to profit from his sale - which I personally think is a bit hypocritical given the reasons for wanting to get rid. I mean we don't particularly need his transfer fees for our budget, we'll have to make do with a youth player maybe, which I'm totally fine with.

There are also plenty who are able to respect both sides here - I think we'll actually get somewhere in this thread (rather than going around in circles) if both sides just stop calling each other Snowflakes or DV sympathisers etc. etc. Neither of these labels are accurate imo.
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At the end of the day, we've invested a lot of money and time in him, we have every right to profit from the sale considering the PR disaster he brought to the club. I don't really care if we don't profit, but I don't see how we wouldn't if big enough club wanted him and he's as good of a talent as people who want him back pin him as.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Doubtful given that he chose Ronaldo as one of his fave Madrid players recently.

Maybe he’s somehow unaware that Ronaldo is an actual alleged rapist, unlike Greenwood.
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Are they not both alleged rapists?

Or is Mason just an alleged violent abuser?
 
moses said:
You said it was unacceptable. That's all I was referring to.

So you really think we should start policing what players say to each other? To what level?

What's your IQ? Mata's is around 145 I think and Lampard's 150.
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Do you think players should be able to say whatever they want on the pitch? Really?

As I said, Bellingham shouldn't have said what he said (if true). This has nothing to do with football. It didn't change anything nor did it give him a star on his shoulder.
 
red.knight said:
Do you think players should be able to say whatever they want on the pitch? Really?

As I said, Bellingham shouldn't have said what he said (if true). This has nothing to do with football. It didn't change anything nor did it give him a star on his shoulder.
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So you are another poster who won't answer direct questions but ask them instead. Just what the forum and this shit show could do without.

I have no need for such strategic evasion so I will answer.

Within the law, yes, of course. Racism is one of the obvious no go areas.
 
Not entirely sure insulting someone is illegal in competitive sports, genuinely unsure what Getafe’s complaint is here (if indeed true, which beyond an article in the Mirror I don’t think has been truly confirmed, might be wrong though).

That being said, I also don’t think Bellingham called him a rapist. Do people actually care if he did though?
 
Spark said:
Not entirely sure insulting someone is illegal in competitive sports, genuinely unsure what Getafe’s complaint is here (if indeed true, which beyond an article in the Mirror I don’t think has been truly confirmed, might be wrong though).
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"using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)" is a red card offence. Calling someone a rapist is obviously about as insulting as it gets.

That law rarely gets enforced unless it's directed to a ref though.

Also slander is illegal but I can't see how any footballing authority could charge someone for that.
 
duffer said:
"using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)" is a red card offence. Calling someone a rapist is obviously about as insulting as it gets.

That law rarely gets enforced unless it's directed to a ref though.
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Didn't that used to come under Unsporting Behaviour? Used to happen a bit at junior level.
 
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