Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Those with more empirical evidence at their disposal than you (the club) have concluded that Greenwood is not guilty.

They claim such, without rationale, then moved him on anyway. To say their conclusion was controversial is an understatement.

It's interesting (sic) Richard Arnold and the Glazers have better powers of judgement and can amass more evidence than the police and cps.

With respect, most (likely including yourself) are on here day and night wanting rid of 'the club', because they don't know what they're doing, and their greed. Now you want Greenwood (for whatever reason) to return their judgement is acceptable?

Considering they haven't expounded their conclusion it really does point to some serious hypocrisy, not to mention, a non-footballing agenda.
 
I’m not going to lie. I don’t know what you are trying to say.

Eitherway he hasn’t been charged they could simple make a stance based on that. It’s not like he’s not allowed to play professional football again. He could join Arsenal if they wanted to buy his contract.

I don't think its that hard to understand tbh. I assume the debate in here is about whether people feel it is right he plays for us again, which is a moral argument...and no one in this thread can possibly know enough about the situation to make any sound judgement on that. So I don't get how it can be "simple" unless you ignore the moral/ right or wrong side of the whole thing. In which case yes it is simple but I don't think that's how most people will or should think.

Its deliberate ignorance to say "well the court didn't charge him so therefore he's innocent" just as it is ignorant to assume he should be punished forever for something both the law and alleged victim of his actions have deemed he shouldn't be.

Sometimes its ok to just accept you can't know what the right answer is without having to argue one way or the other. The only real thing we have to go on is the club's own stance on things after their investigation, but that comes down to whether you trust one of the worst run and greediest clubs in world football to make a sound decision on a complex matter, where they have potential financial incentives to base their decision on.
 
Saying it again because it needs to be said.

He’s a selfish twat who doesn’t pass the ball and if we bring him back and put him on the right side, it will be such a horrific decision and will make our side even more disjointed.

Could have at least gone with saying Anthony offers better outlets on the right and has a better understanding with ETH. Shit troll.
 
They claim such, without rationale, then moved him on anyway. To say their conclusion was controversial is an understatement.

It's interesting (sic) Richard Arnold and the Glazers have better powers of judgement and can amass more evidence than the police and cps.

I mean, reportedly the club planned to reintegrate him. That plan fell apart once a third party reported on it and the club lost the ability to set the tone and action said plan - fan backlash ensued and it was evident fan reaction wasn’t accommodating of his return - and that at that stage, it would have been detrimental for all parties involved for him to stay (this was pretty much stated verbatim by the club). Where is this notion that because they had to move him on then - it somehow wholesale invalidates their investigation, coming from?

Regarding your second paragraph - please refer to the statement made by the CPS.
 
Regardless of whether you think he should return or not I feel like anyone saying he's not guilty are being disingenuous at best, stupid at worst.
 
I don't think its that hard to understand tbh. I assume the debate in here is about whether people feel it is right he plays for us again, which is a moral argument...and no one in this thread can possibly know enough about the situation to make any sound judgement on that. So I don't get how it can be "simple" unless you ignore the moral/ right or wrong side of the whole thing. In which case yes it is simple but I don't think that's how most people will or should think.

Its deliberate ignorance to say "well the court didn't charge him so therefore he's innocent" just as it is ignorant to assume he should be punished forever for something both the law and alleged victim of his actions have deemed he shouldn't be.

Sometimes its ok to just accept you can't know what the right answer is without having to argue one way or the other. The only real thing we have to go on is the club's own stance on things after their investigation, but that comes down to whether you trust one of the worst run and greediest clubs in world football to make a sound decision on a complex matter, where they have potential financial incentives to base their decision on.
So do you really have no opinion one way or another? I personally suspect he's a violent little scrote but also appreciate that I don't have all the evidence necessary to make that a definitive judgment. I do think we have enough to go on to at least form an opinion, though. My concern with fence sitting on this topic is that it passively allows the player a way back into the club. So saying 'on balance the evidence against him looks damning but not definitive, so I'll reserve judgment' leaves the door ajar for the club to bring him back in.

As for 'The only real thing we have to go on is the club's own stance on things after their investigation' - I disagree, both for the reason you outline (cynical of the club's motives) and because of the audio and video.
 
Regardless of whether you think he should return or not I feel like anyone saying he's not guilty are being disingenuous at best, stupid at worst.

Based on the evidence available publicly, he's innocent in my book. Just because you like to judge people as guilty without having all the facts, doesn't mean others have to fall along with it.
 
as a footballer absolutely good enough to be a regular in our team, as a person simply can't ever play for this club again.

Is it not the consensus around here?
 
Clueless.
Load of nonsense which wasn’t true at Utd and isn’t true now.
Have you actually seen him play?
Nonsense. Based on pure footballing arguments, it would be an absolute no-brainer to bring him back, and he would be in the starting XI almost immediately.
Could have at least gone with saying Anthony offers better outlets on the right and has a better understanding with ETH. Shit troll.


Just one game btw. If you think there is nothing wrong in this, then you know nothing about football. Cheers
 
They claim such, without rationale, then moved him on anyway. To say their conclusion was controversial is an understatement.

It's interesting (sic) Richard Arnold and the Glazers have better powers of judgement and can amass more evidence than the police and cps.

With respect, most (likely including yourself) are on here day and night wanting rid of 'the club', because they don't know what they're doing, and their greed. Now you want Greenwood (for whatever reason) to return their judgement is acceptable?

Considering they haven't expounded their conclusion it really does point to some serious hypocrisy, not to mention, a non-footballing agenda.

Firstly, the club did provide details and rationale behind the not guilty verdict and I have already posted that info.

Secondly, the club have a totally different remit to the CPS so it's not about having more evidence etc - the club are duty bound to make a guilty/not guily call on their employee whereas the CPS are not. I suggest you go and read more about standard proceedure in large companies for such cases if you dont understand this.

Now it is fair to say that my faith in decion makers at the club is low at the moment and people have rightly questioned whether the club are capable of dealing with something like this.
However, I do think that the club went out of their way to do everything they could to investigate, after all their main priority is to protect the brand, sponsors etc so they have to be seen to follow all necessary legal proceedure.
There are details that many fans probably dont know - e.g. they set up a 5 person internal committee including 2 women to oversee the process so it was not just an Arnold/Glazer decsion. Unfortunately when you leave things to committee it often takes a lot of time with different opinions to take into account and the biggest mistake was taking far too long to make any decision, it was absolute madness that they didnt deal with it in the summer and let it drag on into the start of the season.

BTW I havent said I want Greenwood to return - I think sending him on loan was the best option, however I do see a potential path to a return next summer. But I think the club or Greenwood/his partner are going to have to give some kind of interview/explanation of what happened because otherwise, rightly or wrongly, its likely to drum up the same kind of negative publicity.
 
Ahhh thr fa
The same way you verify guilt - you go through the evidence, cross-examination, get Cracker in, confessions etc

What we have, besides empirical evidence (it's not just allegations), is a collapsed case. Neither proof of guilt or crucial innocence.

Until the latter is incontrovertibly proven, MG really should not be capable of returning to us.

Ahhh the famous guilty until proven innocent stance.

Although I also appreciate he's obviously a massive bellend so get why so many don't want him to play gor the club. I'm on the fence between the two.
 
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Just one game btw. If you think there is nothing wrong in this, then you know nothing about football. Cheers

Exactly, it's 2 or 3 bad decisions in one game, which you use to define a player. And even if he is a tad selfish at times, there is no way it would make our side "more disjointed" as you claimed. He's an infinitely better player than Antony, who is far more guilty of taking pot shots from terrible positions than Greenwood ever was. He has yet to contribute a goal or an assist this entire fecking season.
 
The funny thing is, he's playing great just now and I understand Barcelona are keeping tabs. If he stays where he is then he will be playing good football and being largely left alone by the media other than the occasional snippet when he does something impressive.

If he comes back here it'll be chaos. Suddenly the reporters who are posting "a look into his family home in Spain" and so-on will be asking how we can allow him to play, accusing us of everything under the sun and hounding him to the ends of the earth. He'll also be playing much worse football because he'll be in a dysfunctional team.

On the other hand, it's bloody weird to think that we're struggling along with poor attackers like Rashford and Antony, when we have a player out on loan who could really transform us if things come together. And no, I'm not getting into the other aspects of this because I don't know enough to confidently express an opinion on that side.
 
There isn't an innocent verdict because innocence is presumed. You're overthinking this by arguing semantics.

Presumption of innocence: before a conviction
Not guilty: after a non-conviction

Note: Thre might be certain instances where the above doesn't hold true (ie. mistrial) but you should more or less understand

No, you are missing the context of my point.

This is about why people get the term wrong and what it means, where it applies to. It's not about semantics in terms of being a grammar dickhead, it's about wording and what it means...hence misnomer.

My point is that it would solve a lot of these circular arguments about the particular aspect if it was clearer is all.



British law is weird because it seemingly makes it very difficult to convict a person of a crime, even when it appears to be open and shut. It's why you get claims of the courts or police protecting the criminals.

The wording is an important part of this so words like 'innocent' are less likely to influence a person than 'not guilty'

It's a pretty good idea tbh and makes guilty verdicts quite robust, though as we've seen not infallible. The alternatives are all a bit shit. Compare the UK to the US, which is partly built on common law but wrongful conviction is far more common in the US.

Fair post.



It's hard to have a conversation about this whole thing because you say A - then someone responds to B (and usually with a tone of indignation)

My post even included this sentence as a disclaimer: "whether you believe it or not it's a different conversation"

And of course it means something - substantial too - seeing as, again, they are much closer to this than any of us - including even some of those reporting on it.

United stated the results of their investigation and mentioned the victim's and her family's awareness and wishes as corroboration. Those things, however, aren't mutually exclusive with "having" to ship him out - as evidently public reaction wasn't accommodating of his return and was damaging to the club, the fanbase, the team and to the player and his family (including the victim). Look at this thread.

The first couple of lines though is standard for walls of text and I'm sure I can look and find you doing the same somewhere. You have to always bare that in mind when talking on a message board, that you can also perceive things as maybe they aren't intended. Not to say I can't be a snarky little twat though, but genuinely don't mean to be...at least not all the time ;)

Anyway there's no need to rehash the club's investigation, my comments there were more about how much you trust the club itself to handle this. Especially when you factor in they may not even have all the facts themselves and the other influences at play. They very clearly messed up trying to get his return happening, they've openly messed up so much over the past 10 years or so (even longer) so it's very fair for people to question their inhouse handling of anything and the motives behind it. In fact I'd argue that's exactly what we should be doing.


Anyway, I appreciate the responses lads. It's really nice to have calm and rational discussions, especially in this thread, fair play.
 
Greenwood the player - would love him back. Never understood his critics when he was being “selfish” under Ole. He was clearly doing what he was asked to by the coach…you don’t score if you don’t shoot kind of stuff.
No, incorrect.

No manager is going to tell a player to shoot like a maniac even if there's someone in a better position which Greenwood used to do. This is why he had 4 assists in the equivalent of 49 full league games for United.

Even worse considering we scored 120 something goals in 20/21 (the most in 15 years). You play in a team like that and you finish the season with 2 assists in the league. Rashford (and for the record, I would have sold Rashford last year to PSG and I posted it in his thread) had 9 league assists only in 20/21.

The fact that we had Ronaldo in 21/22 and the set-up was clearly moulded around him made it even more obvious that MG is a selfish prat who doesn't have any respect for any system, tactics, players or consensum of any kind. He's the equivalent of an anarchist on the field.

The previous season (20/21) Bruno had 3.3 shots per game, Rashford 2.1, Martial 2, Cavani 1.3.

When Ronaldo joined he became the main reference with 3.7 and the rest changed like that:

Bruno (went from 3.3 to 2.5)
Rashford (from 2.1 to 0.9)
Martial (from 2 to 0.6)
Cavani (from 1.3 to 1.2)

The only player who increased his shooting rates in the "Ronaldo-system" was Greenwood, who went from 2.2 to 2.7. He shooted the same amount per game as Rashford, Martial and Cavani together.

I never wanted Ronaldo nor enjoyed that approach but I understood why. Ronaldo is a legendary goalscorer, he's done it all in football, our prodigal son coming back. Ronaldo scoring at United also boosted us commercially, so it was agreed that he would be at the top of the hierarchy and the rest had to take a step down. Everyone did except the little clown.

We often saw Ronaldo making gestures to him and after one of his first games where MG completely ignored him, Ronaldo gave a post-match interview for an american channel taking digs at "the young players" who doesn't respect the experienced ones, unlike what he did when he was starting and so on. He said such things repeteadly during that season.

While I despised every minute of Ronaldo's 2nd chapter at least I understand his sense of entitlement. Ronaldo earnt his status on the field after many years at the top, which everyone in that team understood and respected. Greenwood took licenses that he shouldn't have taken and he basically isolated himself from the group and the system playing on his own, as he keeps doing and he'll continue to do.

This is an anti-system who also used to arrive late to training, shat on his first senior call by England in calamitous fashion and, in general, didn't have respect for anything or anyone. Hell, he even broke the rules at Getafe when it comes to diet and stuff like that and he's been there for 5 minutes. He doesn't care about anything.

When all the shady stuff emerged we saw players posting pictures on the social media with their girlfriends in a friendly manner, subtly (openly) taking a dig at him. This is not the response of a group that respects someone, believes in his innocence and enjoys playing with him. More like people celebrating that a rotten apple has been caught and dropped to the bin.

He isn't welcome there, he can't be trusted with a new contract considering his anarchic and unpredictable nature and he's not coming back. Ineos won't start a new chapter giving a contract to this rat-kid with the noises and division that it would bring because he isn't worth the headache.

Greenwood to Real Madrid? Barca? Such a disrespect for such giant clubs to even suggest it. Talent alone (even in big amounts) doesn't make you a good player for a top top club. He's so far from it is laughable, and he carries some serious flaws in his game. If somehow this happened one day he's lasting like 10 minutes there.
 
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:lol:

Fair play mate, you win. Greenwood is actually shit at football.

Nope he’s very good. Two footed. Great shot. Fast and direct. Can be an excellent striker. Has awful decision making and is selfish so he’ll definitely make the attack more disjointed if we bring him for the right side.

You’re pretty shit at reading and understanding. :wenger:
 
Exactly, it's 2 or 3 bad decisions in one game, which you use to define a player. And even if he is a tad selfish at times, there is no way it would make our side "more disjointed" as you claimed. He's an infinitely better player than Antony, who is far more guilty of taking pot shots from terrible positions than Greenwood ever was. He has yet to contribute a goal or an assist this entire fecking season.

He was poor in his last season, turned into as much of a cut in merchant as Anthony and was trying too hard. It's odd that the claims against him have suddenly made people forget that season.

Suggest people go look at his performance thread because it'll be full of complaints.
 
He was poor in his last season, turned into as much of a cut in merchant as Anthony and was trying too hard. It's odd that the claims against him have suddenly made people forget that season.

Suggest people go look at his performance thread because it'll be full of complaints.

Oh, I don't even disagree with that. Still, if we accept that both Greenwood and Antony are inconsistent and selfish with dodgy decision making, I would still want the inconsistent and selfish player that has pace, a bit of strength, two strong feet, a good cross, and excellent shooting over the one that has none of those abilities at all.
 
He was poor in his last season, turned into as much of a cut in merchant as Anthony and was trying too hard. It's odd that the claims against him have suddenly made people forget that season.

Suggest people go look at his performance thread because it'll be full of complaints.
I thought a lot of those complaints were also stupid at the time though. The best players have the most shots. Nobody moaned when Ronaldo did it and in time Greenwood would have scored more goals. This whole “selfish” narrative was largely a load of shite.
 
I thought a lot of those complaints were also stupid at the time though. The best players have the most shots. Nobody moaned when Ronaldo did it and in time Greenwood would have scored more goals. This whole “selfish” narrative was largely a load of shite.

They did, as they moan when Bruno, Rashford etc. do it too. You have and have had multiple players with poor decision making in the final third which has caused regular frustration.
 
Regardless of whether you think he should return or not I feel like anyone saying he's not guilty are being disingenuous at best, stupid at worst.
It's a questions of morals and legality isn't it? Morally, you'd be an idiot to say he's not guilty. Legally, he is not guilty.
 
The first couple of lines though is standard for walls of text and I'm sure I can look and find you doing the same somewhere. You have to always bare that in mind when talking on a message board, that you can also perceive things as maybe they aren't intended. Not to say I can't be a snarky little twat though, but genuinely don't mean to be...at least not all the time ;)

Anyway there's no need to rehash the club's investigation, my comments there were more about how much you trust the club itself to handle this. Especially when you factor in they may not even have all the facts themselves and the other influences at play. They very clearly messed up trying to get his return happening, they've openly messed up so much over the past 10 years or so (even longer) so it's very fair for people to question their inhouse handling of anything and the motives behind it. In fact I'd argue that's exactly what we should be doing.


Anyway, I appreciate the responses lads. It's really nice to have calm and rational discussions, especially in this thread, fair play.

Walls of text? My reply to you was 5 short sentences :confused:

Hence the inclusion of "whether you believe them or not is a different conversation", because, well, it is. I've not discounted that United may have it wrong, but my post was a reply to: "until we can verify his innocence, he cannot play for us again. Certainly not in the light of empirical evidence." It is OK to contextualise what has happened thus far - especially so when it's not being framed as the be all end all - but it's pertinent considering what I was replying to.

And for the sake of objectivity - United's failings in other/many areas over the past 10 years are well known - but their stance on this didn't happen in a vacuum.
 
No, incorrect.

No manager is going to tell a player to shoot like a maniac even if there's someone in a better position which Greenwood used to do. This is why he had 4 assists in the equivalent of 49 full league games for United.

Even worse considering we scored 120 something goals in 20/21 (the most in 15 years). You play in a team like that and you finish the season with 2 assists in the league. Rashford (and for the record, I would have sold Rashford last year to PSG and I posted it in his thread) had 9 league assists only in 20/21.

The fact that we had Ronaldo in 21/22 and the set-up was clearly moulded around him made it even more obvious that MG is a selfish prat who doesn't have any respect for any system, tactics, players or consensum of any kind. He's the equivalent of an anarchist on the field.

The previous season (20/21) Bruno had 3.3 shots per game, Rashford 2.1, Martial 2, Cavani 1.3.

When Ronaldo joined he became the main reference with 3.7 and the rest changed like that:

Bruno (went from 3.3 to 2.5)
Rashford (from 2.1 to 0.9)
Martial (from 2 to 0.6)
Cavani (from 1.3 to 1.2)

The only player who increased his shooting rates in the "Ronaldo-system" was Greenwood, who went from 2.2 to 2.7. He shooted the same amount per game as Rashford, Martial and Cavani together.

I never wanted Ronaldo nor enjoyed that approach but I understood why. Ronaldo is a legendary goalscorer, he's done it all in football, our prodigal son coming back. Ronaldo scoring at United also boosted us commercially, so it was agreed that he would be at the top of the hierarchy and the rest had to take a step down. Everyone did except the little clown.

We often saw Ronaldo making gestures to him and after one of his first games where MG completely ignored him, Ronaldo gave a post-match interview for an american channel taking digs at "the young players" who doesn't respect the experienced ones, unlike what he did when he was starting and so on. He said such things repeteadly during that season.

While I despised every minute of Ronaldo's 2nd chapter at least I understand his sense of entitlement. Ronaldo earnt his status on the field after many years at the top, which everyone in that team understood and respected. Greenwood took licenses that he shouldn't have taken and he basically isolated himself from the group and the system playing on his own, as he keeps doing and he'll continue to do.

This is an anti-system who also used to arrive late to training, shat on his first senior call by England in calamitous fashion and, in general, didn't have respect for anything or anyone. Hell, he even broke the rules at Getafe when it comes to diet and stuff like that and he's been there for 5 minutes. He doesn't care about anything.

When all the shady stuff emerged we saw players posting pictures on the social media with their girlfriends in a friendly manner, subtly (openly) taking a dig at him. This is not the response of a group that respects someone, believes in his innocence and enjoys playing with him. More like people celebrating that a rotten apple has been caught and dropped to the bin.

He isn't welcome there, he can't be trusted with a new contract considering his anarchic and unpredictable nature and he's not coming back. Ineos won't start a new chapter giving a contract to this rat-kid with the noises and division that it would bring because he isn't worth the headache.

Greenwood to Real Madrid? Barca? Such a disrespect for such giant clubs to even suggest it. Talent alone (even in big amounts) doesn't make you a good player for a top top club. He's so far from it is laughable, and he carries some serious flaws in his game. If somehow this happened one day he's lasting like 10 minutes there.
Great post.
 
No, incorrect.

No manager is going to tell a player to shoot like a maniac even if there's someone in a better position which Greenwood used to do. This is why he had 4 assists in the equivalent of 49 full league games for United.

Even worse considering we scored 120 something goals in 20/21 (the most in 15 years). You play in a team like that and you finish the season with 2 assists in the league. Rashford (and for the record, I would have sold Rashford last year to PSG and I posted it in his thread) had 9 league assists only in 20/21.

The fact that we had Ronaldo in 21/22 and the set-up was clearly moulded around him made it even more obvious that MG is a selfish prat who doesn't have any respect for any system, tactics, players or consensum of any kind. He's the equivalent of an anarchist on the field.

The previous season (20/21) Bruno had 3.3 shots per game, Rashford 2.1, Martial 2, Cavani 1.3.

When Ronaldo joined he became the main reference with 3.7 and the rest changed like that:

Bruno (went from 3.3 to 2.5)
Rashford (from 2.1 to 0.9)
Martial (from 2 to 0.6)
Cavani (from 1.3 to 1.2)

The only player who increased his shooting rates in the "Ronaldo-system" was Greenwood, who went from 2.2 to 2.7. He shooted the same amount per game as Rashford, Martial and Cavani together.

I never wanted Ronaldo nor enjoyed that approach but I understood why. Ronaldo is a legendary goalscorer, he's done it all in football, our prodigal son coming back. Ronaldo scoring at United also boosted us commercially, so it was agreed that he would be at the top of the hierarchy and the rest had to take a step down. Everyone did except the little clown.

We often saw Ronaldo making gestures to him and after one of his first games where MG completely ignored him, Ronaldo gave a post-match interview for an american channel taking digs at "the young players" who doesn't respect the experienced ones, unlike what he did when he was starting and so on. He said such things repeteadly during that season.

While I despised every minute of Ronaldo's 2nd chapter at least I understand his sense of entitlement. Ronaldo earnt his status on the field after many years at the top, which everyone in that team understood and respected. Greenwood took licenses that he shouldn't have taken and he basically isolated himself from the group and the system playing on his own, as he keeps doing and he'll continue to do.

This is an anti-system who also used to arrive late to training, shat on his first senior call by England in calamitous fashion and, in general, didn't have respect for anything or anyone. Hell, he even broke the rules at Getafe when it comes to diet and stuff like that and he's been there for 5 minutes. He doesn't care about anything.

When all the shady stuff emerged we saw players posting pictures on the social media with their girlfriends in a friendly manner, subtly (openly) taking a dig at him. This is not the response of a group that respects someone, believes in his innocence and enjoys playing with him. More like people celebrating that a rotten apple has been caught and dropped to the bin.

He isn't welcome there, he can't be trusted with a new contract considering his anarchic and unpredictable nature and he's not coming back. Ineos won't start a new chapter giving a contract to this rat-kid with the noises and division that it would bring because he isn't worth the headache.

Greenwood to Real Madrid? Barca? Such a disrespect for such giant clubs to even suggest it. Talent alone (even in big amounts) doesn't make you a good player for a top top club. He's so far from it is laughable, and he carries some serious flaws in his game. If somehow this happened one day he's lasting like 10 minutes there.
I think you are absolutely right about his character and how the rest of the squad viewed him, but you are underplaying his talent. Real and Barca will absolutely be in for this guy if he's going on the cheap, and you can quote me on that in 12 months if I'm wrong. He is absolutely miles clear of Rashford, Hojlund, Garnacho, anyone at the club in terms of talent and he will be picked up by a huge club, terrible attitude notwithstanding.
 
Nope he’s very good. Two footed. Great shot. Fast and direct. Can be an excellent striker. Has awful decision making and is selfish so he’ll definitely make the attack more disjointed if we bring him for the right side.

You’re pretty shit at reading and understanding. :wenger:

Attacking the poster and not the ideas like thar makes you look very childish and doesn't prove your point. Totally unnecesary
 
He is fantastic going forward and would improve us immensly but his defensive workrate is criminall and ETH would go mental after a while. Imagine him and Rashford on the side our fullbacks would break.

He has all the potential in the world be he has to improve many aspects of his game. If he is willing to do that he can achive anything in the game.
 
I think you are absolutely right about his character and how the rest of the squad viewed him, but you are underplaying his talent. Real and Barca will absolutely be in for this guy if he's going on the cheap, and you can quote me on that in 12 months if I'm wrong. He is absolutely miles clear of Rashford, Hojlund, Garnacho, anyone at the club in terms of talent and he will be picked up by a huge club, terrible attitude notwithstanding.
Problem is, you could say the same about Taarabt, Ben Arfa, Cherki, etc. Pure talent isn't enough when football has become far more systematic. He needs to adapt his game - I think he has ever so slightly, but if he wants to play for an elite team, he has to become more of a team player.

Attacking the poster and not the ideas like thar makes you look very childish and doesn't prove your point. Totally unnecesary
While I agree he shouldn't attack the poster like that, a lot of people don't seem to want to admit he has obvious flaws to his game, whilst also being supremely talented.
 
Problem is, you could say the same about Taarabt, Ben Arfa, Cherki, etc. Pure talent isn't enough when football has become far more systematic. He needs to adapt his game - I think he has ever so slightly, but if he wants to play for an elite team, he has to become more of a team player.


While I agree he shouldn't attack the poster like that, a lot of people don't seem to want to admit he has obvious flaws to his game, whilst also being supremely talented.
Again man, he is miles clear of those players in terms of talent, and they are talented players, but Greenwood is well clear of them in terms of ability. Greenwood has a shooting ability with both feet not seen since Michael Owen, and while he has other big flaws in his game as others have noted, he is improving every week for Getafe and that ability he has will get him a big move.
 
while there is no admissible evidence in eyes of the law that Greenwood did anything wrong , there is enough to suggest something went down. That alone is enough for me to never want to see the player in United colours.

But it's not enough for the alleged victim to leave him. They're still in a relationship, she's moved with him to Spain and they've had a child together.

Does that not suggest to you that there may be more to this than you know, that you have no idea what really happened and that you don't have enough information to say he should "never play for the club again"?

I think there's a pretty good chance that she knows more about what happened than you do.
 
This is why he had 4 assists in the equivalent of 49 full league games for United.

Young forwards are inherently selfish. Assists across their first two seasons in the first team:

Rashford: 1 in 8.8 games
Greenwood: 1 in 10.3 games
Garnacho: 1 in 9.5 games

Greenwood was what, 18/19 in his first two seasons? Obviously wasn't the finished product, made terrible decisions at times like other young forwards, but his talent was and is undeniable.

He also had - by far - the highest pass completion of the three and the most passes per game...so the potential was there for him to improve as a creator. Which maybe he's already doing as he's sitting at 1 assist every 3.7 games for Getafe.
 
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I think you are absolutely right about his character and how the rest of the squad viewed him, but you are underplaying his talent. Real and Barca will absolutely be in for this guy if he's going on the cheap, and you can quote me on that in 12 months if I'm wrong. He is absolutely miles clear of Rashford, Hojlund, Garnacho, anyone at the club in terms of talent and he will be picked up by a huge club, terrible attitude notwithstanding.
Just to clarify, I'm not denying Greenwood is gifted in terms of pure talent, he's dynamic and got some dynamite there. What I meant is that talent alone doesn't make you a player for a top team. In those teams like Barca and Real your talent represent like 30 % of the player. Greenwood blatantly lacks the other 70 %.

12 months? I give it 3 or 4 years and he won't get there, that's how sure I am. We can check again in the future. Top clubs like Barcelona and Real, and I mean those who aren't ruled by clueless bankers do their research and don't take unnecessary risks when they can buy with more guarantees. No way this kid passes that exam after a proper evaluation.

I agree with you in the sense that Greenwood could make the difference for us in attack better than Antony and current Rashford, but it doesn't take much to improve what they're offering.

Our current weaknesses shouldn't be an excuse to bring a rotten character to maybe solve some problems while adding some (many) others. There's a transfer market there to find the right materials, players who can do fine, add themselves to the system while being healthy for the group.

By the way, going by talent and based on the Caf standards Mario Balotelli should have been a permanent Ballon d'Or contender. Take a look at this if you have a pair of minutes and watch these bangers, the strength, the confidence. His natural conditions were outrageous and the man was so charismatic, everything was there to be a star. Sadly for Supermario, Greenwood and players in that mould football at the top is far more complex than being very talented.

 
But it's not enough for the alleged victim to leave him. They're still in a relationship, she's moved with him to Spain and they've had a child together.

Does that not suggest to you that there may be more to this than you know, that you have no idea what really happened and that you don't have enough information to say he should "never play for the club again"?

I think there's a pretty good chance that she knows more about what happened than you do.

It is not as simple as just saying oh she stayed with him so it’s not as bad as it first seemed. Domestic violence isn’t as cut and dry as that, with an average of seven incidents occurring before the victim has the courage to leave an abusive relationship.

Also there are a myriad of other factors in play with this relationship, such as social and financial reasons as well as the age of both Mason and his partner. I know from my own experiences that things I accepted and put up with in relationships at 19 are completely different to how I would act now in my 30’s, and that goes for both involved here.

I personally would not want Greenwood back at United, but I also understand that there is a lot of things we don’t know and never will and if other United fans would be happy to see him playing for us then that’s fair enough.
 
Again man, he is miles clear of those players in terms of talent, and they are talented players, but Greenwood is well clear of them in terms of ability. Greenwood has a shooting ability with both feet not seen since Michael Owen, and while he has other big flaws in his game as others have noted, he is improving every week for Getafe and that ability he has will get him a big move.
Think that's a bit subjective being miles clear, but fair enough. He is improving in the sense of getting back to his level prior. He's not improving the flaws though. I don't think he truly realises his potential unless he becomes prolific or a more rounded player.
 
It is not as simple as just saying oh she stayed with him so it’s not as bad as it first seemed. Domestic violence isn’t as cut and dry as that, with an average of seven incidents occurring before the victim has the courage to leave an abusive relationship.

Also there are a myriad of other factors in play with this relationship, such as social and financial reasons as well as the age of both Mason and his partner. I know from my own experiences that things I accepted and put up with in relationships at 19 are completely different to how I would act now in my 30’s, and that goes for both involved here.

I personally would not want Greenwood back at United, but I also understand that there is a lot of things we don’t know and never will and if other United fans would be happy to see him playing for us then that’s fair enough.
Amazing how many times this needs reiterating, isn't it?! The whole 'they're back together so he obviously didn't behave in a problematic way' thing is ludicrous.
 
Nope he’s very good. Two footed. Great shot. Fast and direct. Can be an excellent striker. Has awful decision making and is selfish so he’ll definitely make the attack more disjointed if we bring him for the right side.

You’re pretty shit at reading and understanding. :wenger:

You’re having a mare. Firstly we don’t have an attack to make disjointed, unless you think Antony is a footballing genius on the right. Secondly you’re showcasing a single game where I believe we lost 1-0 to Villa and were shite all round.

But most importantly of all, his most recent performances for Getafe showcase good decision making, e.g. vs Atletico Madrid a team currently doing really well.

He obviously wouldn’t make our “attack more disjointed”, if you actually believe that you clearly have no understanding of football.
 
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