Would certainly be weird.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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Would certainly be weird.
Talent alone doesn't make you a good player for the top sides, and scoring aside there wasn't anything extraordinary there. Good acceleration and technique too, like many others, but carrying plenty of flaws in terms of mentality, decision making, tactically, discipline, null defensive wise, lack of creativity on the ball and some shady issues off the field on the top of it.
Madrid don't need to take cheap punt on this troubled kid and hope that he gets eventually fixed. They have money and attractiveness to cherry pick players all around the world, and go straight for someone with quality and more variety on his game, who also makes them strong in the collective sense.
In a world of football getting more and more systemic with the best teams being built to attack and defend as a unity, having a free verse playing on his own (and doing it like a crazy donkey at times) ignoring teammates, tactics etc represents a big, big problem. MG hasn't earn the credit for any top team to allow him that privilege and platform like let's say Mbappe at PSG.
If he was smart or (alternatively) well advised, he would sign for Getafe or a similar team where he could be the main star, without any egos/talents "competing" with him. Being allowed freedom on the field and even off it, being carried tactically by the other 10 players while he focuses only on attack and shooting like he's possessed. He'd be allowed to take all the risks and getting good individual numbers.
This is not going to happen at Real, Barca, and not even in this mediocre United team. Any big club going for him and expecting the kid to be "another part of the machine" is completely deluded and set for a disappointment. But I doubt they do as it takes 5 minutes to know what he's about.
Well because they said they did and I guess they probably just asked Greenwood to show them the evidence that basically killed the police investigation 2 months after he was taken in to custody. It seemed like they were all prepared to take him back until the social media backlash so they must have been satisfied with whatever reasoning they were given.
But hey everything any of us say is pure conjecture as none of us know anything.
No, the club did not say that.
Yes they did.Or if you want to split hairs John Murtogh did.
They would be taking a punt on arguably the second best young striker outside of Haaland which he was before the incident, and now a player who appears to be getting back to the talent level he showed as well as doing it in la liga in which madrid and Barca play.... there's all this talk about madrid coming in for Garnacho when Greenwood was and is leagues better.
There is no real argument that can be made apart from a club not morally wanting him to suggest that if he was available for 30/40mil then none of the big clubs would come in for him. It would almost be financial bad practice not to buy a player who outside of the incident would be worth pushing 150mil for that price.
You are talking about a player who is technically very good in terms of his control, passing, dribbling and is pretty much elite with his finishing. If he continues the rest of the season improving then there will be without a doubt elite clubs in for him.
Also finally the decision making argument is such a bad one, as in terms of output and ball retention he was and is better than the likes of Rashford, Garnacho etc. Can he get better at choosing when to shoot and when to pass, of course. That's just a point in how to improve him as a player. But lets not pretend that his output and decision making is worse than a Garnacho or Rashford. I would argue he's shown it to be better.
Greenwood is still younger than both Salah and De Bruyne when they arrived at Chelsea. Considering his talent level, and the strides he has made in a couple of months. Considering what he has gone through i believe his ceiling to be even higher than before ... he has nothing to lose, the only way is up. I would love to see him reach his potential, and as i United fan, it hurts me to say that i believe his future should be at Real Madrid, creating a legacy with Jude
I completely understand your point. You believe the "innocent" is a misnomer, because a better description is "not guilty" and I'm telling you that's not correct. The presumption of innocence exists in a failure to indict, not guilty verdict, mistrial, etc.
I haven't mentioned anything about grammar. It seems you don't like how the word innocent is used in a legal context. That's not a misnomer.
Firstly, I didn’t say nor do I think kids don’t learn from outside sources. They spend most of their time away from their parents in the West so of course they do. I have a 14 year old who’d rather talk to his iPad, iPhone, xBox or Playstation than anyone in the house so I am well aware.
What I’m saying is, a kid idolising a streamer [who may be a wrong’un themselves] but it’s putting forward a fun front isn’t a kid hearing/seeing what we saw with Mason then going on to do it themselves. Seeing Coca-Cola ads all over the place then going on to form a sugar addiction is not seeing/hearing what we did with Mason then going on to become a r******.
Raising kids is full of pitfalls but if a child is old enough to understand what Greenwood was accused of yet that parent hasn’t made it abundantly clear you don’t treat any human that way [don’t hit, don’t bully etc.] then that’s a parenting issue.
I’m an adult & watching the Beckham documentary I realise even as one that I still admire that guy as a footballer, his free kicks, his style etc. If he was accused of something debauched I wouldn’t then admire that too. The guys an accused adulterer. I think adultery is wrong. There’s a distinction that I think people are wilfully ignoring.
At the most impressionable of childhood then yes it’s a tough conversation but for me ‘the math ain’t mathing’. The job of parents is to balance the negative influences & re-enforce the positives, if a child saw what Greenwood did & thought ‘I’d like to do that to my missus’ then the seed was already sewn.
I don't think you do. I'm talking about why so many believe what it means wrongly.
You can "tell" me all you want, but arrogance aside so many clearly don't understand what happened and what it means. That to me is a problem, not just in this case.
Absolutely none of this goes against what I said and think.
But how you and I may raise our kids can and is a whole world away from others. My point is not having a go at your view, as it's one I agree with. It's that there's so many who are saying "oh they shouldn't look up to footballers" who clearly don't understand both that it will happen and there's plenty of parent(s) who don't see or can't how we may.
I don't personally believe Mason Greenwood is going to influence anywhere near as many kids as someone like Beckham, and I thoroughly agree with your point there...but I also think it's dangerous that so many have a flippant attitude to how these people and what they do affects the future. I mean, look at the rise of the fecking "influencer".
I'm not quite sure what exactly I missed.
My only point was if a person is not convicted, the presumption of innocence always exists. A mistrial (getting off on a technicality) isn't the same as a not-guilty verdict, but the presumption of innocence still exists.
No it doesn't though. Thus lies the whole misunderstanding of "innocent until proven guilty". You are speaking purely legally, I'm speaking from both that and a moral framework.
Law is a construct that is subject to constant changes and even misuse. Innocent means something completely different to not guilty, the lines are blurred thanks to our awful justice system but that much is true. Morality is personal, but in general most of us accept it's wrong to kill someone or steal or rape and innocence is borne of that.
I'm not sure why you refuse to understand the point, but once again you can "tell" me all you like but your own opinions on this case seems to cloud your judgement here. If it helps, I don't consider Greenwood "guilty" of what he's been accused of, I accept the CPS withdrawal for what it is. But the people using "innocent until proven guilty" to justify his return fundamentally misunderstand what that means. That's the context of my whole side here, if you think I'm wrong about that feel free to correct me further.
This unfortunate state of affairs should not be used as an excuse to demand more of someone because they are good at kicking a football. It's the lazy and ineffective way out. Most footballers don't give a feck about being role models.
I think you need to re-read that letter again. Yes they say they couldn’t have whole access but mention they were shown an extended extract of the clip but weren’t given access to the full recording. So is that not part of the evidence the police had access to?
Which also is completely understandable, as why would you wish effectively for a buisness to see what presumably is a recording of them having consensual sex. But again all conjecture. We’ll never know the full story unless the full video is somehow released.
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Your original point was the club had access to everything and now you've admitted they couldn't have whole access...
You don't seem to understand the concept of role models or heroes.
This "unfortunate state of affairs" is nothing new.
So, you were wrong after all.
Unless you think the police and CPS would share everything they had with some in-house corporation investigation?
No it wasn’t. The word ”probably” was used in the sentence.
Of course I was speaking from legal standpoint. That's why I started by saying, "in a court of law." You said no, and I explained further.
Never said innocent and not guilty were the same. In fact, I explained how they were different.
I merely commented on a specific example you gave, and it wasn't based on my opinions of the case. I don't understand why you take such an offense at the correction. The presumption of innocence isn't something I made up to make a point.
They do not mention that they were shown or listened to an extended extract of the clip. They say that they were provided with an explanation (by Greenwood himself obviously), and that a longer version exists (which has been public knowledge all along).
I'm glad I'm such a simpleton that I don't feel the need to discuss the details of the UK's judicial system and the difference between "innocent", "guilty" and "not guilty" ad infinitum.
Nor do I feel the need to try to prove to others that he's a really good player, or that he's overrated.
All I need to know is that he's a wealthy man who threatened to rape his girlfriend. That he said "I don't care if you want to have sex with me", told her to "move your fecking legs up" to which she replied "I don't want to" and asked him to stop putting his penis near her. To which our golden boy replied with more demands and threats. This makes him a pretty vile cnut in my eyes, the type I don't want to see representing the club I support.
It sure is unfortunate for him to be in a situation where he, for whatever reason, cannot give public explanations to what I heard. Unfortunately nothing changes for me until he does.
Good that he's doing decently in Spain. Helps us to get rid of him.
Nor do I feel the need to try to prove to others that he's a really good player, or that he's overrated.
All I need to know is that he's a wealthy man who threatened to rape his girlfriend. That he said "I don't care if you want to have sex with me", told her to "move your fecking legs up" to which she replied "I don't want to" and asked him to stop putting his penis near her. To which our golden boy replied with more demands and threats. This makes him a pretty vile cnut in my eyes, the type I don't want to see representing the club I support.
It sure is unfortunate for him to be in a situation where he, for whatever reason, cannot give public explanations to what I heard. Unfortunately nothing changes for me until he does.
Good that he's doing decently in Spain. Helps us to get rid of him.
That's speculation, but the club also confirmed that they spoke to the mother of Greenwood's partner who backed up everything they reported regarding an alternative explanation for the audio and Greenwood being not guilty.
Good point.
This sub clearly shows the divide. If he were to come back he would be the focus of the good,the bad and the ugly. If I was his advisor I would tell him to stay in Spain. To keep his head down, learn from his past mistakes and just focus on his young family and football.
He is just 21 years old. If he keeps playing good football,and improving on his game at this rate. Class wingers are very expensive and very rare in europe. It would actually be a dumb move to return to old Trafford.
A player of his calibre must be oozing with self-confidence right now. And he's on good united wages so he doesn't have to worry about money the next season. And we won't bench him if he runs down his contract. Surely real madrid or barcelona could come along next year. Or at least that's what he (his ego) must be thinking. Especially when he can be picked up on the cheap. His good mate and neighbour Bellingham could be whispering things in his ears.
Everybody is discussing this situation from the perspective of United. But it seems Everybody forgets that Greenwood has a saying (veto power) on his future too. Even his hero Ronaldo left us in our prime under Ferguson for real madrid. What makes you guys think he even wants to come back? So what are your thoughts about this alternative scenario?
He is just 21 years old. If he keeps playing good football,and improving on his game at this rate. Class wingers are very expensive and very rare in europe. It would actually be a dumb move to return to old Trafford.
A player of his calibre must be oozing with self-confidence right now. And he's on good united wages so he doesn't have to worry about money the next season. And we won't bench him if he runs down his contract. Surely real madrid or barcelona could come along next year. Or at least that's what he (his ego) must be thinking. Especially when he can be picked up on the cheap. His good mate and neighbour Bellingham could be whispering things in his ears.
Everybody is discussing this situation from the perspective of United. But it seems Everybody forgets that Greenwood has a saying (veto power) on his future too. Even his hero Ronaldo left us in our prime under Ferguson for real madrid. What makes you guys think he even wants to come back? So what are your thoughts about this alternative scenario?
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What an odd post
And what's the source for the Mata gay rumours anyway? Weirdly, when I google it, a top result is an utterly moronic post from a user here suggesting that he might be gay because he dresses well and has not been spotted with a female love interest.
Excellent post. Greenwood’s attitude was shocking when Ronaldo was here.
I think Ronaldo made a remark as well, something along the lines of young players not willing to learn.
No wonder Mason turned out to be such a c*** of a human being as well. If you can’t respect your senior players, let alone one of the all time greats, there has to be something seriously wrong in your character.
100%, well said.
Can we recall him from his loan? Our only chance of scoring another goal this season
He can easily outscore and out-assist world’s most expensive fidget spinner who has done more interviews than performed on the pitch.
Are we still debating whether he should ever wear the club's shirt again? That's an obvious one I think, no?
Sell him at the end of the season and that's that. He's a good player, but his "mistake" is not one we should forgive and forget.
Let me put it this way - if this was your sister you'd be in jail awaiting trial for murder. I know I would be.
Sell him at the end of the season and that's that. He's a good player, but his "mistake" is not one we should forgive and forget.
Let me put it this way - if this was your sister you'd be in jail awaiting trial for murder. I know I would be.
This was a massive red flag for me. Lack of respect.
But I think most fans and I bet most people at the club let him off and put it down to him being a teenage prick and he'd grow up and out of it soon..
What an odd post
And what's the source for the Mata gay rumours anyway? Weirdly, when I google it, a top result is an utterly moronic post from a user here suggesting that he might be gay because he dresses well and has not been spotted with a female love interest.
It’s a very strange post I agree, and not that it matters but he’s been with the same woman for ten years.
If anything it just shows he doesn’t lack self awareness. I’m sure he respects the legend that is CR7. His problem was that current player wasn’t better than him and it was taking away his chances.
Greenwood was getting a fair amount of games on the wings before being banished.
The dumb feck was earmarked from a young age to be developed into a top player at United. But he fecked it up...
Our attack is in dire state, we need a good finisher and Greenwood is a damn good finisher, just saying.
He wanted to play upfront and couldn’t understand how this dead football version of CR7 was ahead of him or even playing.
Fair play to him he understood his talent. For people that don’t play football or haven’t been in a changing room except for their school team maybe it’s hard to understand. Don’t worry about it.. it’s normal for players to not rate eachother even if they have status.
You think a 20 year CR7 didn’t think he should be ahead of Figo?
You know we didn’t kick him out because he wasn’t a good player, or because we didn’t need him?
What a load of nonsense. Ronaldo was clearly still a better option than greenwood at that stage. Greenwood could have learned an enormous amount from one of the greatest of all time, but instead he got his little feathers ruffled. Immature, petulant and unprofessional.
The condescending bolded bit is just laughable. Do you play to a standard that's comparable to the Premier League then? If not, you're just as clueless about changing room dynamics as everyone else. From a personal perspective, though, I've been in a situation at work where someone who was at the very top of our industry was parachuted into our team above me and I seized the opportunity to learn from them with both hands. I learned a huge amount and it benefited me enormously. If Greenwood's ego got in the way of him making the most of the opportunity then that's on nobody but him.
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