Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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That wasn't the full audio and you don't know the context of why they were chanting that. Would be unfair to judge them based on that alone.
Not sure about the US but Asia and Africa are definitely less sensitive to these types of allegations. It's not a hot take at all.
Do you think every country in the world treats these things in the same way?
So was Dele Alli once upon a time and his career was over before he turned 30, seems like dedication on the training pitch and lack of off field distractions has a far bigger impact on young players reaching their full potential than overall talent, even then Greenwood didn't show the technique to play on the wing and didn't seem physically ready to play CF, good talent for a club like United I guess but Madrid and Barca have a little bit higher standards than that.
Of course not. Nor would I argue that every United fan in the world has the same opinion about these things. Or that every fan with the same nationality has the same opinion. That’s what I’m objecting to. There’s bound to be a hell of a lot of fans from all those regions who are a hell of a lot less glib about what happened then @Raoul seems to be.
Time will tell. There is nothing to suggest he will turn into Delli Alli who is more the exception than the norm.
There is nothing to suggest Greenwood will not progress if he plays football.
Disagree with the bolded bit but like you said time will tell.
I personally don't think so, which is why original point that a majority of United followers either want him back or are at minimum agnostic on the situation, is probably closer to reality than the domestic UK narrative that most don't want him back (and I say this at the risk of sounding glib).
Agreed.
You just described the Caf.
Correct, I also wouldn't put much stock in the Caf's reaction.
Yes absolutely on a football level it's going to interesting to see where he is at and it's not just his physical fitness, mental level is as important. He will surely get more abuse from away fans so let's see how he deals with that.
In fact, regardless of your opinion of Greenwood, it's bizarre for any Man United fan not to have some level of interest in how he performs on loan.
Some countries in Europe too I think, Greece, Italy, I reckon Spain as well.
La Liga is the perfect place to test his potentials it's not a pleasant place for everybody
How people can look at him and see anything more than a kid (I know how old he is)..... I hope he sorts himself out as he was undoubtedly a twat/cnut..... Deserves a chance at redemption imo, whether he apologises to redcafe or not.... let's see what happens but hopefully it all ends well for him and family.
Precisely. Imagine the pressure of having to provide for his family at 18 onwards. Its got to feck with you as a person.
Has he had a growth spurt? He looks comfortably over 6ft now.
How is "sensitivity" being measured here? Outrage on twitter?
That’s actually German for ‘the Greenwood, the’.
For me, first and second-hand experience. Twitter is not real life.
He seems to have lost any muscle he had built up. Wonder if he’s lost any pace because of that in terms of top speed he can hit
I think it's more like he's lost a lot of muscle mass. He will need to build it back on even for La Liga.
There was a stage where he had put on 5kgs and it made a huge difference in his performance under Ole..
Is this a question that really leaves you incredulous? Surely you understand why people might see him in a different light than before two years ago.
From the outside looking in - his relationship always came across as a “kids cosplaying as adults” type thing to me since I saw that daddy dick video. And from anecdotal experience those type of relationships are usually toxic with kids not really knowing how to navigate interpersonal/romantic relationships and often emulating really bad behaviours. Used to see it growing up in the estate all the time, like 16/17 year old kids drunk off lambrini being loud and obnoxious at night, hitting each other/fighting then the next week they’d pop-up pregnant - rinse and repeat. Not saying this is the case - just that that’s how it came across to me.
This doesn’t really answer the question. What’s the methodology - you said Asia and Africa are for sure less sensitive to these types of allegations - and I’m asking you how is sensitivity being measured? What are the markers you’re using for this?
I honestly think the club had him on some sort of PED to gain that much mass. It could have led to roid rage etc if he reacted badly to whatever they had given him. Might be why the club "have a duty of care" and are looking after him so much. Rhys Webb the Wales rugby player got caught for some Hormonal deviation and said he had been given it by the fed.
(this is all hypothetical and not excusatory)
I wonder what odds I'd get on him scoring 10 league goals for United next season when he comes back.
It's purely anecdotal from a person who comes from one of those said communities and has seen first-hand how allegations like these are handled. I didn't know I had to present a peer-reviewed study.
Unlikely, players are tested fairly regularly, I believe. It would be insane for United to be pumping roids into kids. His muscle mass at the time wasn’t really extraordinary - it looked normal of a growing athletic/gym kid - let alone a professional athlete.
“Duty of care“ is most likely because he’s been at the club since he was 7 and United played a pivotal role in shaping and moulding his character.
Wasn’t asking for a peer review study for feck’s sake
I was just trying to ensure I understood what you said. “xyz is less sensitive than abc about this and that for sure” - so I asked you what’s the markers for sensitivity here. It’s how conversations are had. And “coming from one of those communities” is hardly a great barometer to make the statement you made without any type of disclaimer, any way. But I legit wasn’t trying to get you defensive, just wanted to understand.I dont even know if post this is for real or not?
Asking for the methodology and your dissatisfaction with “first and second hand experience” as an answer infers you are looking for some type objective data. Not sure what other answer you are looking for.Wasn’t asking for a peer review study for feck’s sake
I provided a disclaimer (two in fact) but you decided to focus only on “coming from those communities”.
By asking for methodology that was me trying to articulate what I wanted to understand/you to answer - as in I got the first hand/second hand experience part, but it didn’t really answer what you meant/how you were measuring “sensitivity”, which is what I was trying to understand, hence why I then said “markers”.
And no, you didn’t really add disclaimers, at least not initially - you said Asia and Africa are definitely less sensitive and it’s not a hot take - I then asked how is sensitivity being measured - you said anecdotally - I said yeah, but what’s the markers you’re using to measure sensitivity - which resulted in you saying something along the lines of I come from one of those communities (paraphrasing) - which to me is wild, maybe even dangerous as a basis for that blanket statement, but I’m not trying to dismiss your personal experiences so I just said cool.
That's fine now, but if you had said "Do you have any specific instances?" we would have avoided the confusion. I don't think you are trying to dismiss my personal experiences, you just don't think it matters in this context and that's fine.
I will say it's not dangerous or wild if you've seen it firsthand or have any experience in those communities. I'm not sure about you, but where I grew up has a large, diverse immigrant population (West Africans, Mexicans, and South and East Asians predominately) and usually these families are extremely patriarchal, religious families. In cases of domestic abuse, sexual assault, or infidelity, the men (especially the head of the household) are almost unilaterally given the benefit of the doubt as those involved are usually more concerned about the reputation of the families rather than the well-being of the victims. It's usually worse in countries our parents immigrated from. Not saying this applies to every family, but if you poll people from an African or Asian (and probably Latin American) background, they will most likely tell you the same thing. I have had countless conversations with friends and family about this subject.
Excellent reference
No-one who speaks German could be an evil man
My first hand experiences are different to yours. I’ve seen - as in first person - not news reports or whatever - men accused of sexual assault being beat up by the whole neighbourhood then tied up and tossed in the back of a 4x4 to never return. It is what it is. I wouldn’t use that to say South America, Africa, Asia are more/less abc than Europe - that type of rhetoric is dangerous to me. Hyper-visibility and confirmation biases and all that - but cool, I hear you.
I don't know the specifics or severity of your situation, but I stand by what I said. In the context of domestic issues among spouses/couples (i.e.. what Mason Greenwood was accused of) the negative reactions towards the accused are nowhere near what they would be in Western Culture. This is based on a handful of first-hand accounts and countless second-hand accounts. It's not dangerous rhetoric, it's simply my experience and that of credible people.
I’m not trying to get you to not stand on what you said? You gave account of stuff you’ve experienced - and I said, without being dismissive of your experiences, that my experiences differ from yours - with an account of stuff I’ve witnessed.
I mean, you seemingly think that hailing from a community with a migrant population qualifies one to make blanket statements for South America, Africa and Asia. I disagree, I find that stupid, but in good faith and in an effort to be cordial I simply said I find that to be dangerous rhetoric, which it is - and from that we can also ascertain that the floor of our barometers on credibility are wildly different. It’s a forum, you’ll disagree with people.
“Negative reactions towards the accused are nowhere near what they would be in western culture” - cool. Mason Greenwood broke shirt sales records at Getafe and had a stadium singing his name. Getafe has made countless references to the popular phenomenon he’s proving to be - labelling it “Mason Mania”. It is well
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