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He doesn't look any better than when he first got into the team, I think that's the point.How has he, as a 20 year old not developed? Go on.
He doesn't look any better than when he first got into the team, I think that's the point.
If anything his shooting has gone down hill, he doesn't use his right foot as much as he used to. People expected a little more by now but he shows it in patches like his goal against Leicester.
His main feature is still his clinical finishing, all other areas of his game still need serious work.How has he, as a 20 year old not developed? Go on.
it really isn’t to be honest. what’s he got better at apart from physical attibutes?That's a bunch of crap. He first entered the first team during Ole's interim stage. Then the first season included Project Restart, where he physically improved and had an overperforming goal record that was unsustainable.
People don't know what expectations and growth is if it hit them in the face. Mason has had some knocks and now Covid layoff recently, but he's also got a lot more competition in the team too.
He doesn't have to shoot on sight and he is still learning how to pick and choose his spots to shoot and when to release passes for this teammates. Cutting down on his stepovers and being more direct and purposeful in the box is something he has to learn to do and trust himself for the greater good of the team.
A 20 year old kid who has done really well so far and will only get better because he has the technical ability to do so.
it really isn’t to be honest. what’s he got better at apart from physical attibutes?
go back and watch his debut against cardiff and he looks just as good if not better in that performance.
Don’t get me wrong i’m not saying he’s bad or anything but he’s not quite turned into the star that I expected yet. The things he was doing at youth level really made me think we had the next best striker around.
He hasn't developed as much as he should have by now and our coaches are to blame. I hope Ralf gets him back on track.
He's 20 years old...and being a star means he's starting week in, week out for club and country. What 20 year old is a bona fide star? Very, very few. That does not mean he's scoring every week either, but his overall contribution to the team as well. He's improved on that, but still a lot to grow and that is totally acceptable for a 20 year old forward who has to compete for places.
Mason was doing silly things at youth level, but remember, he bypassed any initial senior football (i.e. loan within the PL or other leagues) to go straight into United's first team. He's still learning the game, his opponents, himself, and his teammates.
His long term position will be as a right forward or center forward. How he can float around the attacking forward line depends on team tactics. He's shown glimpses of good build up play, keeping possession in the middle of the park, passing/crossing into dangerous areas. If Sancho hits form and is effective, he'll play. That eats into Mason's playing time, however it will be up to Ralf to setup the team with the most effective players.
Totally agree though I think he’s someone who lacked a real guidance from a top coach. I think Ole was too nice with him and playing to his ego didn’t help his development and work ethic. That’s why I’m excited about Ralf coming in here as he won’t accept half arsed performances. I think if Greenwood applies himself well he will unlock his full potential.it really isn’t to be honest. what’s he got better at apart from physical attibutes?
go back and watch his debut against cardiff and he looks just as good if not better in that performance.
Don’t get me wrong i’m not saying he’s bad or anything but he’s not quite turned into the star that I expected yet. The things he was doing at youth level really made me think we had the next best striker around.
Mason is an incredible talent, but what has he actually gotten better at? I'm not blaming Mason. I hope Ragnick can take him to that next level. Also, you can't say "what 20 year old is a bona fide stay?" with regards to Mason. You could easily argue, which 20 year old has the talent and ability of Mason Greenwood?
Of course, he can't be a star so soon but there has to be some improvement. This kid, for the talent he has, should be on the Haaland trajectory.
Great post and glad that someone can see it for how it really is. Some baffling stuff posted in this thread. It’s clear that he’s progressed massively since he first came into the team I don’t even see how that’s disputable.Each to their own...but I see things much differently...
I see a young forward who has taken on more responsibility in the team, who calls for the ball in tight spaces; who drives forwardwith confidence; who is actually quite clever when he has runners around him; and who can finish.
But I also see him in a team with no structure and no wide support from a players he can develop an understanding with...I see him being encouraged to shoot on sight by a coach and copping flak for carrying out orders (Ole is actually on video telling his players to shoot on sight - watch it and tell me it was Greenwood going rogue taking all those shots against the managers orders to slow the game down and pass instead! It doesn’t make sense.) He has done nothing wrong for me in being selfish and backing himself to score because for the majority of his senior career - he has found the net.
Two points, One he is defensively naive and that needs to be addressed. Two, be honest with yourselves...lets just say, those games earlier in the season (West Ham etc.) where he was shooting every time he got the ball...maybe 3 games he has been visibly / overly selfish...if even 2 or 3 of those shots go in...we are not in this thread talking about him not progressing- we are back calling him generational! For the sake of 2 or 3 goals?is the gap between progressing poorly and generational talent so marginal?
My point is being a striker/goal scorer is fickle and no great Goal scorer (Freakshow Haaland aside) is scoring for fun at 19. It’s fits and starts, purple patches and dry spells...this can’t be confused with lack of progress.
massively is a huge over exaggeration. He was already very capable of doing everything he does now, he’s just got more of a mans body.Great post and glad that someone can see it for how it really is. Some baffling stuff posted in this thread. It’s clear that he’s progressed massively since he first came into the team I don’t even see how that’s disputable.
I was watching Scholes and I think Rio speaking about United not long ago and actaully Scholes has said this more than once that he has heard Greenwood does not want to be a striker and prefers playing as a wide forward.@captaincantona
He's certainly become more of a team player but it feels like it's taken away some of his natural mercurial talent. He used to glide around the pitch with the ball and stick it deep into the corner of the goal. I just don’t see that side of him enough lately.
massively is a huge over exaggeration. He was already very capable of doing everything he does now, he’s just got more of a mans body.
This is a kid that was doing roulettes past Skriniar in his first pre season ffs!
Considering the level he showed at 16/17 I do think he’s progressing a bit slower than many of us hoped. I don’t think playing him on the wing has helped him hone the right skills really.
let’s not forget the likes of rooney, mbappe, haaland, benzema, owen, fowler etc all played as a striker from 18+ Y/O, but for some reason we stick him on the wing.
Is he a good young player right now? definitely. Is he looking generational that we hoped/expected? debatable right now. Let’s hope we get the right coaches in the next few years and he balloons.
I was watching Scholes and I think Rio speaking about United not long ago and actaully Scholes has said this more than once that he has heard Greenwood does not want to be a striker and prefers playing as a wide forward.
I do think there have been massive improvements beyond him just filling out myself. More the things he does in game and how much he becomes involved in matches now compared to when he first broke in to the first 11.
I think in that aspect there have been huge improvements to his game but the goal scoring or getting in to those good positions seems to have stagnated. I’ll be interested to see how he goes under Ragnick as you would think quick transitions high up the pitch would get the best out of him. See how he takes to pressing and the workrate and understanding needed for it.
Lets face it as well, if he was playing for Dortmund or something in the Bundesliga he’d be scoring goals for fun there and we’d all be unzipping at any news of possible interest.
I think his heading ability is suspect. He is basically no threat in the air compared to our other no. 9s, like Cavani and Ronaldo. Even Martial seems better than him in the air. Until he improves, it is hard to see him being a total success in that CF position.He probably does not prefer as no 9 himself because obviously, let's face it he is still very young for that position physically and maybe mentally at this moment.
He should keep playing on the right or left for this season at least. There should be no hurrying with no 9 position for him at all.
I think his heading ability is suspect. He is basically no threat in the air compared to our other no. 9s, like Cavani and Ronaldo. Even Martial seems better than him in the air. Until he improves, it is hard to see him being a total success in that CF position.
The thing about Greenwood for me is that he broke through to the first team with a lot of hype. At one point some were not too bothered about Haaland because we had Greenwood.
Whilst he has time on his hands, he has not been at a level that you can say - you know what this player is going to be one of the best in his position of the whole league.
Is this RW version who we develop and hope he one day plays the RW better than Salah is playing now? I don't particularly see it.
Sure, we can stall fhis new position experience but that is ultimately a whole year out of his career maybe even more. Not only that, players like Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Shaw don't know how they have to adapt the game towards this type of striker.
I was looking forward to focusing on a young front line this season and get that going even if we didn't win shit, now we are no where near and using experienced players to get us out of this slump.
I think he barely performs better than his debut game vs Cardiff, which is still his most threatening game for me where he really translated his youth form vs a PL opponent though they were probably awful.@captaincantona
He's certainly become more of a team player but it feels like it's taken away some of his natural mercurial talent. He used to glide around the pitch with the ball and stick it deep into the corner of the goal. I just don’t see that side of him enough lately.
massively is a huge over exaggeration. He was already very capable of doing everything he does now, he’s just got more of a mans body.
This is a kid that was doing roulettes past Skriniar in his first pre season ffs!
Considering the level he showed at 16/17 I do think he’s progressing a bit slower than many of us hoped. I don’t think playing him on the wing has helped him hone the right skills really.
let’s not forget the likes of rooney, mbappe, haaland, benzema, owen, fowler etc all played as a striker from 18+ Y/O, but for some reason we stick him on the wing.
Is he a good young player right now? definitely. Is he looking generational that we hoped/expected? debatable right now. Let’s hope we get the right coaches in the next few years and he balloons.
This of course.Let's see now that we have a proper coach what he can do?
I think he barely performs better than his debut game vs Cardiff, which is still his most threatening game for me where he really translated his youth form vs a PL opponent though they were probably awful.
He has probably gotten stronger, gotten faster, has improved his hold-up play, better at keeping the ball in tight situations in the build up, and a bit safer.
But that full debut, he was full of trying to score, he was a lot more versatile in ways to attack, made more use of his two feet, much better off the ball runs, taking on defenders, switching to the left flank. His finishing was poor that day but that was uncharacteristic of him, it makes me excited watching it because I know what he's got in his locker. He did fairly well in 19/20 and ending of 20/21 under Ole, but he's capable of much much more.
Agreed, he became robotic quite early in 19/20, just looking for the low shot at the edge of the box. He has varied things a bit more again but still nowhere near enough.Agreed. I think people forget just what a good performance that was. Full of confidence and expression.
I feel he's been turned more robotic. People in this thread seem to be thinking im suggesting he's rubbish now which isn't the case. He's clearly still very talented, but I don't think he's got a LOT better in 2 years. His link up play has always been great, his finishing ability was always amazing on both feet.
My point was he seems to be doing less things now than he did before. Maybe that's the pressure of the being in the spotlight or playing in the PL.
No reason to rush him as I said.I agree with his heading but one thing I've noticed even more is that he can look a bit 'stuck in the crowd' when central. There's not enough involvement as a player yet when in the role of a striker; not enough back to goal hold up play, not got the run ins behind right yet nor the dropping deep to get the ball to feet and as you said his heading. Ofcourse he is a young chap, but I'd like to see if he can show some signs of it atleast, not be the end product by any means.
It's why I wish we could give him 6 months to try it out as a striker, seeing if that's his position by managing to get some improvements to his game. Whilst it's early it should give us the ability work out whether being a striker or an inverted forward is best and what does come most natural to him including his own preferences.
Can’t say I’ve seen a specific sect targeting Mason or using Sancho as a reason for it. Surely given performances this season the best front 3 is Sancho Ronaldo Greenwood. Sancho off the left where I expect he’ll end up back quite soon as soon as Mason is fit.It's funny almost anybody who is close to the club. Blackmore, Irwin, Sherignham, Rio, Scholes all say he is not a pure number 9. However because we bought shiney new Sancho, people will lie and say he hasn't kicked on since his debut. Which is nonsense. He isn't a wide player he's a no 9, (actually he's a modern day forward player). I get tired of defending him on here. But I wish Sancho fans would stop trying to hurt Mason's perception or performances in order to justify Sancho on the right.
I could sit down and poke holes in Sancho's Chelsea performance (outside the goal) but I like Sancho it's not neccesary.
Greenwood is a phenomonal forward talent probably the best youngster (U23) at our club, stats prove it. Double digits in goals in th English Premier League, two seasons in a row since 18 and more than likely this one too.
It's weird you speak to a lot of rival fans at games or wherever they all mention Greenwood's name first. "You got some player on your hands, you lot ought to be focusing on him, forget Ronaldo, forget Sancho he's your future." I respond they're all important. Opposition fans see it but ours don't seem to want to see it.
Our fans talk a lot of rubbish about Greenwood and say stupid stuff (he hasn't kicked on, he's one dimensional, etc). Am I saying Greenwood is the perfect player? No, but to go on like he's not personally having a great season is what baffles me. IMO he's got the highest ceiling at the club above Rashford, Sancho etc that's not knocking Sancho and Rashford. Marcus is probably one of my favourite players. But Mason is playing levels above a lot of his peers - Bar Foden, I find it hard to place any other youngsters near him.
Not really sure why he wasn’t used
I think the problem is, is that you are conflating that starting debut as his debut full season. Which is not the case (in terms of overall play). He was a lot more reserved after that performance you used as an example. He tended to stay out wide and only when given a chance, would score. His link up play has been visibly improved and he can play in tighter areas. So I don't think it's fair to label it as a case of him just getting stronger.Agreed. I think people forget just what a good performance that was. Full of confidence and expression.
I feel he's been turned more robotic. People in this thread seem to be thinking im suggesting he's rubbish now which isn't the case. He's clearly still very talented, but I don't think he's got a LOT better in 2 years. His link up play has always been great, his finishing ability was always amazing on both feet.
My point was he seems to be doing less things now than he did before. Maybe that's the pressure of the being in the spotlight or playing in the PL.
