It's weird, it's like he plays like he feels he needs to score to stay in the team, whereas with Rashford it's like he plays like he knows he's getting in the team so hes only interested in scoring
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Now he's not a top tier talent? This place never fails to give me a chuckle 
Someone needs to quickly train that Ole instruction of "You get the ball, you shoot" out of him. Sure, he has a good shot but no player in the world will consistently score from the kind of range he keeps having a pop from. Just pass and move and probably he'd have better chance to score then. Oh and all our players need to learn to square the ball if the keeper has committed. It's the same with Rashford, Ronaldo, Greenwood all of them.
Being a good finisher does not make you a good striker.
Example:
- CR7 is a better finisher than R9, but R9 is a better striker.
- Alonso and Reece James are better finishers than Lukaku, but Lukaku is still a better striker.
Haha. Aye I also think he’s been one of our better attackers this season but it’s infuriating seeing him constantly with his head down with nothing in mind other than to get a shot off when we he should be squaring it to a team mate for a tap in.
In danger of stagnating like Rashford
I'd argue he already has stagnated. His goal return, season-by-season, is eerily similar to Martial and Rashford's after their initial bursts onto the scene.
I won't speak about Rashford, as I've no idea why he keeps running into blind alleys time and again. But Greenwood seems to have become a lot more selfish than he was when he first burst onto the scene. I definitely wouldn't say he doesn't have the IQ required, I think his composure and ability to take the ball under pressure speaks of not only his talent but his footballing brain, he's a step ahead quite often. It's just the decision making in the final third, but he's got that pretty much everywhere around him too, with both Rashford and Ronaldo more concerned with #1 than team play.
Stick Bruno in that City team and Pep would go berserk until he stops gifting away possession. Stick him in that Liverpool team and they lose the overpowering midfield. Stick him in that Chelsea team and what, leave Mount and Havertz out? He was sensational for us when he came into a team that was playing shit on a stick football with no hope of opening up defenses. He was exactly what we needed (apart from a manager with vision and ability to implement said vision). But he's become complacent and he keeps trying the same things even when we're reverting from playing Ole counter attack with Rashford or James chasing long balls. He needs to be a lot more selective in his passing and he needs to be a lot more safe in his decision making nested on our own box. I wonder if he can function more as an #8 if we buy a proper #6, or if Ralf's 4222 can be revived with just a single new addition.
Sure, youngsters get a lot of hype, and there haven't been any generational talents coming through since Becks, Scholes and before that Giggs. I do think Greenwood has the talent to be in that bracket though, but he obviously needs guidance and he's coming into a team with no leaders and loads of fragile egos, while his first two managers played defensive football and there was likely no serious attention to possession play.
One thing that was very evident last night (beside his want to shoot) is that he's the only player in the front 6 pretty much who knows how to retain the ball. So many times he drops the shoulder with his back facing to goal out on the right and get the pass off. Key to us retaining the very little possession we had. I hate him playing as a wide right winger though. He needs to be a bit more narrower and further forward.
I agree I was just conservative with my criticism to avoid getting flamed
Current Mason Greenwood in a nutshell. No we should not surprised his development mirrored the beliefs of who was in charge for his first 3 years. Tactical understanding in the box non-existent. His interpretation of the instruction is however so extreme but I guess he's basically a teenager so it can be forgiven and rectified before it's too late. Contrary to what he was told it absolutely isn't good for strikers to be this greedy in the box, not in modern football. My favourite player but learn to square the feckin ball already.
I wonder if it's purely Ole's coaching (likely), or if there's an unhealthy "main man" struggle going on among our wide forwards.
It seems they all want to be the one scoring. None of them really want to be the one taking on the supportive role, be it with assisting, tracking back, or making selfless runs.
It seems they all want to be the one scoring. None of them really want to be the one taking on the supportive role, be it with assisting, tracking back, or making selfless runs.
I think they are all suffering from the reality that if you pass the ball off in this forward line you almost definitely aren’t getting it back. Even if you run into a better scoring position. Ronaldo Rasford and Greenwood are all majorly greedy and none are selfless/creative enough. None are putting in the yards for each other either. Second year running it’s only Cavani attempting to run the channels, press, fight and make some play. We actually miss Dan James or someone like him.
Totally agree with this - we're the opposite of those Arsenal teams obsessed with creating 10-pass moves to nudge it into the net. Thinking of someone like Tevez - who had as good a shot as any of those three - he barely ever looked to shoot without considering what was around him. Rooney actually went through a phase where he didn't shoot enough, instead always looking for cute passes.
I think it comes down to a few problems. One is simply consistency - none of these players are getting time with each other for, say, a dozen matches. I can't remember which coach it was (McClaren maybe?) that spoke about how crucial pairings were. Right flank, left flank, central midfield, up top. But two players that really work as one, so can subconciosuly anticipate what's going to happen. It's why Pep teams are so good - because he drills them all into little automatons - their positions are predictable. Now we chop and change every few days - system, tactics, players - and it shows. Teams that are far weaker than us but play more or less the same XI every week look better.
The second is simply man management. Ralf needs to sit Greenwood down and tell him that he wants to see at least 3 chances created next match. Not goals, chances created. And if he doesn't see that attempt, he gets benched and Sancho comes in. Ralf needs to do similarly with Bruno - if you lose the ball more than 15 times in the final third you're sitting next match.
For me, we should start using pairs: Cavani and Rashford / Ronaldo and Greenwood. Mix of youth and skills. Let them develop into actual partnerships.
It's not greed. Our players simply are poor in terms of concentration at the final phase. Greenwood doesn't get on the end of things enough imo. He's always having to face an uphill battle to get those shots in, which is why I don't see him as a wide forward. He is clearly great on the ball and has a good shot on him; yet to get that shot out, he usually has to face situations in which he's creating the chances himself.
Rashford/Martial have both been terrible in the final phase. Both were never good at making good decisions in and and around the box and both have become rather lazy. Rashford was never a technical marvel and in truth the idea that he ever was close to one was always misfounded. He needs a lot of things to take place simultaneously for him to make the right decision in the final third. He struggles playing on his right side, he struggles playing in tighter spaces, he is not a good creator nor does he have the balance to beat the opposition in tight spaces. In addition, he has seemingly not been able to find the drive and aggression that led to him trying takeons and winning penalties in 19/20. This has led to him only being useful at one thing, beating the offside trap. Something that is incredibly hard to do when facing a low block. Martial is not nearly as technical as people think he is. His ability to control the ball in the air or on his right side is pretty poor. He can barely dribble on his right side and despite trying to be intricate, he is not nearly as good in tight spaces as one would believe given his attempts. He literally has one move, driving from the left into the centre, and for that to be successful, he needs to be at his best and in form. In those games, he can pull that off twice in a game, in a normal game 0 to 1 time. Sancho hasn't really gotten the opportunity to play in a working team. He's the only one who has proven to be able to produce brilliant football consistently. He is a bit slow and doesn't take on as much as I would expect him to.
When you break that down, realise that our strikers rely on support ( Cavani and Ronaldo). It's easy to realize that the reason for the selfish is that it is much easier to take a shot than put your head up and make the right play. In the case of Greenwood, it is that he usually has too much to do before taking the shot. However, for our other wide men, its the lack of ability that actually causes the poor decisions, not greed.
Time to move him to CF, play him along side Ronaldo or Cavani.
Atm I'd play him as a 9 and a half. In fact less and less top teams play with a true #9 these days. But first I'd need to buy a good CDM. Every top teams have a good one and they're all very crucial in how they play.
DDG
Dalot Lindelof Varane Shaw
CDM
McT/Fred - Bruno
Sancho Greenwood Rashford
Where McT/Fred is the support B2B and Bruno is the advanced playmaker.
Offensively Greenwood would work as a 9 1/2 on the right side of zone 14, Bruno as the #10 on the left side. Sancho/Rashford could move inside and the two FB would move up to provide width and create overloads on the wing. Both Greenwood and Bruno could regularly move inside the box when the chance arrive. This will make our offensive movements very hard to predict and defend against. Something like this, I really like this instance 9:55
Greenwood quickly realized the whole situation and simply stopped to obstructed the Leeds player who was chasing Bruno.
Cavani and Ronaldo are too old and past it especially Ronaldo. Next season they'd be even worse as they got even older. Their role should be impact sub only.
I agree with your overall point; but to me that’s not the most significant issue. I dont think he has his entire game figured out yet; even from the right wing he doesn’t usually use slightly wider angle, he doesn’t dribble faster, his angle of attack is usually the same. That I think RR can help him with. Selfishness can be corrected after that.
Well we all know both Cavani and Ronaldo sent getting dropped and we also don’t have a good CDM. So unless we get one this window I don’t see why any of this is relevant. Next season yeh who knows, but I asked with the current squad.
Greenwood will come good again, he has all the talent in the world. Can't be easy for a 20 year old to perform under all this pressure.
We just suck at developing players these days. The result of not having a structure, no vision, no goals and no personal responsibility. Just money and "looking after our own". Look how far Vini Jr. has come and compare it to Greenwood and Rashford. Embarrassing.
Greenwood still has the potential to be a brilliant player. Not sure if he can do it at our club at present though.
Greenwood still has the potential to be a brilliant player. Not sure if he can do it at our club at present though.
Last edited:
Nice knowing that scouse bastard reads my posts in this thread…
Carragher is spot on.
If Greenwood had more desire and work rate I really think he could become a goalscorer at Salahs level.
The other thing you see with both is they practically never challenge for headers, they do this kinda false jump as if they are trying not to get hurt. Both are around 6ft id imagine and have a bit of muscle so they should not be as timid as they are. Contrast that to Ronaldo at the same age smashing headers in the champs league.
I’d agree that Mason should work harder, especially when we’re out of possession, but just to put the comparison with Salah in a bit of context, he was scoring 5 goals in the fecking Swiss Super League for FC Basel as 20 year old.
Aston Villa 2:2 Man Utd
I wonder does this guy ever pass. Getting way to fecking greedy. Needs to stop that shit. Pity no one will tell him. Cost us too much. Even in the wolves game it was obvious to pass it off and never does.
Himself and elanga should have passed and its a tap in for cavani twice.
Doesn't strike me as the type that would listen anyway.
He was very good.
Greedwood hits once again. No wonder Ronaldo has an issue with him. Can't even drop him since the alternative is even worse. Christ...
He should be taught to pass first, shoot second. I get it, he has a rocket of a shot, we all know it. But so many assists missed because he's been believing his own hype. I worry for his development if he stays.
Thought he was quite decent. He's a very dangerous dribbler and hit some beautiful cross field passes to switch the play to the opposite wing. But he has blinkers on when he gets within shooting distance. Just doesn't look to see what's around him.
Thought he was decent, but faded during the second-half and should have come off earlier.
But today he worked hard, good movement off the ball and good in decent positions at least. Hopefully we get a manager who can manage his development
But today he worked hard, good movement off the ball and good in decent positions at least. Hopefully we get a manager who can manage his development
Why is that?
The guy just shoots. Absolutely terrible footballing brain. Gets into decent positions and wastes the opportunity every single damn time.
Look at him on the pitch every single week when the players in the box are shouting that he should've passed. He doesn't even acknowledge them. He's a selfish little child who thinks he's on the astro pitch and can do what he wants. He'll be gone in 2 seasons.
Said it before and I'll say it again: If Mason is going to go on the inside and shoot as his first, second and third choice then he has to start burying them. Saw a lot of the ball. But I never thought he'd score. I reckon we could've played 120 minutes and he still would've been shanking his shots wide or over. Did a lot of good things but not the most important thing.
What, he started off OK with the ball and running with it but then his decision making was really poor. But his off the ball workrate is absolutely awful, should have be on a break for an extended break
People forget he’s 20 years old. He has lots of skills. His pace and shooting in both feet is great. He needs guidance, he’s at a stage where what happens in training really important for him. His decision making needs to improve and that’s up to the manager and coaching staff to fix
Should've subbed off Cavani and played Greenwood up top in the second half
- Status