Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'

SalfordRed18 said:
www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jennifer-aniston-allure-cover-interview-infertility-b2221962.html%3famp

"There are no more movie stars"

I think this is true but I don't know for better or worse if I'm honest. Growing up, it felt as if you had your TV stars and your Movie stars, and if a TV star was in a big movie you'd think good for them they deserve. Likewise if a movie star appeared in a TV show it was a big deal and you wonder how did they get them.

Now days, that "line" is blurred. I feel the likes of Netflix simply pay what someone is worth (you'd hope) whether that be TV or movie. And then you have the likes of the MCU or DCEU who have characters in TV and movie properties that cross over.

Is the movie star a thing of the past?
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This is a little ‘old man yells at cloud’ but I get her point. The concept of celebrity has changed massively in the last 15-20 years. Reality tv and social media has seen to that. I’m not sure whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing though.

She doesn’t actually make any distinction between movie star and tv star in the link you posted by the way. This is what she says about her character in The Morning Show:

“That kind of mass-fame phenomenon burning so bright for so long, it’s just not achievable today. She’s like a silent-film star among a generation of TikTok dips***s.”
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The Corinthian said:
This is a little ‘old man yells at cloud’ but I get her point. The concept of celebrity has changed massively in the last 15-20 years. Reality tv and social media has seen to that. I’m not sure whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing though.

She doesn’t actually make any distinction between movie star and tv star in the link you posted by the way. This is what she says about her character in The Morning Show:
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Yeah I'd say it's more about young people and their tastes. People like Helen Mirren and Olivia Colman still get older people out in droves when they have a new film out - which sort of proves the appeal of a movie star isn't 'dead' as such.
 
Sweet Square said:
The podcast is called Real Ones with Jon Bernthal, which pretty says everything you need to know. It’s pure dumb guy rubbish.

I only found out about it after it really blew up on social media when he interviewed Shia LaBeouf for the podcast(LaBeouf sort of admits to abusing his former girlfriend).

Listening to the podcast made me genuinely feel embarrassed to be a man. A real quote from LaBeouf(On him going into an AA program) “It felt like warrior shit, it felt like man code, like g shit. It didn’t feel like fluffy cute shit, book reading and sitting. It felt sexy”

:wenger:



:lol:

Yeah not surprising he didn’t get it at all. I will say though that’s can be a sign of a good actor.

I’m always amazed that Micheal Caine played a very convincing hippie in Children Of Men(A film showing the awful negative effects of conservative politics)and yet the guy is still a Tory.
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:(

I knew very little about Michael Caine on a personal level, but I always assumed he was one of the good guys, based on nothing at all other than I like him in just about anything he's in. Crushing.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
:(

I knew very little about Michael Caine on a personal level, but I always assumed he was one of the good guys, based on nothing at all other than I like him in just about anything he's in. Crushing.
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Big into Brexit as well.:(
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Yeah I think it's a bit of an extreme comment, but I do think especially the first one was rated more due to its social relevance (which I can totally get), and not on its merits as a film. This one, I'd say there's more of the Boseman nostalgia playing.

Both are really mediocre films, this one is a bit better than the other films of the current Marvel films, but I just can't get the "best film I've seen this year" or "cried multiple times" comments. But to each their own, glad some people enjoyed it.
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Didn’t want to derail the other thread but on the social relevance point, I was listening to Mark Kermode review this morning on the new film and he was pretty much like yeah it’s boring but well it came out the day after the US mid term election results and stars women of colour main roles, so it’s not that bad.

Understandable I guess but shows imo that the social relevance/representation fills the artistic void these films have.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Very controversial but if he's saying that simplifying narratives into good/bad dichotomies - as superhero stories inevitable do - is similar to fascism then it's hard to disagree.

Requires a few leaps of logic to get there of course.
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So many that it adds up to a pretty feeble point. Fascism isn't exactly the only mode of thought that simplifies narratives into good/bad dichotomies. You could for example put every monotheistic religion in the same sack, together with Marxism.

But total reliance on the super-powered special individual in a world defined by constant and extreme peril, then we're talking. I still think that amounts to a far-fetched point, but when you look at the number of people willing to support Trump and let the most absurd conspiracy theories feed them a deep sense of menace and danger, you have to wonder.
 
Moby said:
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Am I stupid for not understanding his point? Is he saying that if every director was like Tarantino and Scorcese, then he wouldn't get a starring role? Why?

He is technically right, though. The Irishman cost 160 million and Once Upon A Time In Hollywood cost 90 million. Quite far from the 400 million dollar example he used.
 
Moby said:
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Scandi Red said:
Am I stupid for not understanding his point? Is he saying that if every director was like Tarantino and Scorcese, then he wouldn't get a starring role? Why?

He is technically right, though. The Irishman cost 160 million and Once Upon A Time In Hollywood cost 90 million. Quite far from the 400 million dollar example he used.
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I think he has a point somewhat - Scorsese and Tarantino generally only work with the same small cadre of actors. Why or how would anyone trying to break into the industry, such as Simu Liu, have a chance when Scorsese is likely to make his next movie with de Niro or di Caprio, and Tarantino is likely to make his next movie with Samuel L Jackson, or Michael Madsen etc. There’s a feeling of an ‘old boys club’ with these directors, I guess.

For all the criticism levelled at Marvel, they generally cast a wide net when it comes to who they work with, and one thing I do give them massive credit for is authentic representation of different cultures and ethnicities (something Netflix has done well as well).
 
The Corinthian said:
I think he has a point somewhat - Scorsese and Tarantino generally only work with the same small cadre of actors. Why or how would anyone trying to break into the industry, such as Simu Liu, have a chance when Scorsese is likely to make his next movie with de Niro or di Caprio, and Tarantino is likely to make his next movie with Samuel L Jackson, or Michael Madsen etc. There’s a feeling of an ‘old boys club’ with these directors, I guess.
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I have only seen 6 Scorsese films spread out over 5 decades so I'm not gonna jump to his defence as I lack knowledge about his filmography and overall style. But I don't think that Tarantino's films are an 'old boys club'. He has some favorites for sure, but his films rarely have a single protagonist. And when they do it tends to be women or POC(Jackie Brown, Kill Bill x2, Django Unchained).

Tarantino is an oeuvre-obsessed perfectionist and therefore he does not take any risks with his actors. He will pick safe bets, which tends to be more established actors. But these actors didn't get established out of nowhere. That is why it makes little sense to envision a world where every director is like Tarantino. That would not be sustainable.

If Simu Liu's point is that only Marvel and the like will allow relatively unknown actors to star in massive productions then I can agree with his point.
 
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@The Corinthian I'd argue the reason they work with that small cadre of actors is in part because those actors were peer recognised as the best at what they do. I don't think a guy who has only ever worked in an advert before (for instance) should instantly become a front man for a $400m dollar movie, but I agree that's absolutely what he's suggesting there.

My personal gripe with Hollywood in general is that it's clear that nepotism, corruption and favouritism is CURRENTLY ruling over the business. There isn't a hierarchy exactly: Certainly not one that rises people to the top. Which is (in my opinion) why so many theatre-trained actors in the UK end up leading American shows - there's a clearer path towards progression, you can't get by in Soho by being a pretty face alone, it's a brutal business there. So only the best get noticed and end up on the BBC eventually - see Steven Graham, Suranne Jones et al.
 
Scandi Red said:
Both Scorsese and Tarantino honored in less than 2 minutes by one of the greatest Asian directors in modern cinema. The clip could hardly be more perfect! :lol:
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You also will not find a bigger supporter of world cinema then Scorsese. Just youtube search Scorsese world cinema to see 100s of videos. I attended a BFI with him and Mark Kermode years ago to watch Kurosawa High and Low. I read on twitter he also has many projects in trying to save many old films in many foreign movies from African, Korea and many others.
 
Knives out was a decent, fun film with a great cast. Netflix then bought the rights to the franchise and have simultaneously released knives out 2 in cinemas and on netflix the week of Christmas.

Streaming services will be the death of actual physical cinemas in the end. I'm sure marvel/superhero films will get the blame though.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Knives out was a decent, fun film with a great cast. Netflix then bought the rights to the franchise and have simultaneously released knives out 2 in cinemas and on netflix the week of Christmas.

Streaming services will be the death of actual physical cinemas in the end. I'm sure marvel/superhero films will get the blame though.
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Netflix usually only tends to release films in the cinema for a period of time so that they qualify for oscar considerations.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Knives out was a decent, fun film with a great cast. Netflix then bought the rights to the franchise and have simultaneously released knives out 2 in cinemas and on netflix the week of Christmas.

Streaming services will be the death of actual physical cinemas in the end. I'm sure marvel/superhero films will get the blame though.
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I just saw Banshees of Inisherin is on Disney plus already.

Personally I don't have a problem with films going to streaming services early
 
Just seen Jeremy Renner is in critical but stable condition. I hope he pulls through.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Just seen Jeremy Renner is in critical but stable condition. I hope he pulls through.
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“We can confirm Jeremy is in critical but stable condition with injuries suffered after experiencing a weather-related accident while plowing snow earlier today”
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I wonder what happened? When news outlets use the word "injuries" it typically means blunt force trauma, fractures, blood loss etc. I guess the snow plough flipped over and rolled down a hill something :(
 
Scandi Red said:
I wonder what happened? When news outlets use the word "injuries" it typically means blunt force trauma, fractures, blood loss etc. I guess the snow plough flipped over and rolled down a hill something :(
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Sounds like the plough ran over one of his legs. A neighbour applied a tourniquet. Probably will lose the leg if that's the case.
 
I’m so grateful for Drax. I love him. But there’s a relief [that it’s over],” Bautista recently told GQ magazine. “It wasn’t all pleasant. It was hard playing that role. The makeup process was beating me down. And I just don’t know if I want Drax to be my legacy — it’s a silly performance, and I want to do more dramatic stuff.”
 
lsd said:
Even Bautista is embarrassed by these films

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“I’m so grateful for Drax. I love him. But there’s a relief [that it’s over],” Bautista recently told GQ magazine. “It wasn’t all pleasant. It was hard playing that role. The makeup process was beating me down. And I just don’t know if I want Drax to be my legacy — it’s a silly performance, and I want to do more dramatic stuff.”

Doesn’t seem that bad really.
 
I'm amazed people still watch this stuff. It was fun for a while, but every film and series they churn out follows the same formula. I watched one or two series in the aftermath of the final Avengers film but I'm done with superheroes, the main arc finished and they've been flogging the dead horse since.
 
Zen86 said:
I'm amazed people still watch this stuff. It was fun for a while, but every film and series they churn out follows the same formula. I watched one or two series in the aftermath of the final Avengers film but I'm done with superheroes, the main arc finished and they've been flogging the dead horse since.
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Personally I'm amazed people ever watched it - I have never seen a superhero movie and have no desire to see one!
 
Red in STL said:
Personally I'm amazed people ever watched it - I have never seen a superhero movie and have no desire to see one!
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I get why they were popular. Easy to watch and some of them were quite good as far as big budget action films go. It's just so horribly repetitive at this point, though.
 
Zen86 said:
I get why they were popular. Easy to watch and some of them were quite good as far as big budget action films go. It's just so horribly repetitive at this point, though.
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A lack of good scripts/screenwriters i guess

I watched Top Gun: Maverick the other day, it was well made, acted and so on but it was just a clone of the original, you could predict pretty much 10 mins before what was going to happen before it actually happened
 
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